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Thread: 48, you Star of Dawn! - A HungAARy

  1. #41
    Second Lieutenant Gergo's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythian
    Well it's nice to see my fictional decision results in so much debate However, I think my version is more near to the truth in this one. Even if I accept that this was a peaceful agreement in the last days of the revolution, I think you are missing that he OFFERED the right-wingers doing a military coup long before that, but they declined it, because they feared that the army and the populace would support Kossuth. It happened on 1849, May 31, in Debrecen and is listed in highschool history books, but for example you could see this page as reference too (search for the date):
    http://www.bjg.hu/tanarok/tortenelem...ev3magyar.html

    Now, I think that should convince you, if not then we really should moved the further discussion to the history forum

    Ok, ok, I accept it and this debate is on a fiction as you have said, so it's better to leave it...
    Reginam occidere nolite, timere bonum est, si omnes consentiunt, ego non, contradico. - Don't kill the queen, it's good to be afraid of it, if everybody agrees, I don't, I oppose it.

    Reginam occidere nolite timere, bonum est si omnes consentiunt, ego non contradico. - Don't be afraid of killing the queen, it's good if everybody agrees, I don't oppose it.

    Message of the archbishop of Esztergom (János) to the conspirators who killed queen Gertrudis, wife of András II (1213)
    (of course without commas... )

  2. #42
    Damnation Incarnate Elias Tarfarius's Avatar
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    I had wanted to do a Hungarian aar a long time ago, but never got around to it. Keep up the good work! I wonder if we will see Maygarization in this timeline or a more tolerant method?
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  3. #43
    Banned Scythian's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gergo
    Ok, ok, I accept it and this debate is on a fiction as you have said, so it's better to leave it...
    Very well. But, you haven't seen anything yet! Note, that until now I had the backbone of the relatively straight-route Independence Fight to lean to and I tryed to back my path with historically probable choices, but from now on it is fully fiction and as so, I may not only have the storyline broken with fictional decisions, but also may alter the personality of the historical characters to match my plans. Therefore, although I strive to retain a historical backbone as much as possible, if you find a historical character acting questionably, remember that - how they say ? - any match with existing persons is completely the result of accidental events

    Elias, I'm putting together the new update very soon now. That may answer your question too.

  4. #44
    Banned Scythian's Avatar

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    ...and he [Pharaoah] made him [Joseph]
    to ride in his second chariot;
    and they cried before him, "Bow the knee"!
    Thus he set him over all the land of Egypt.

    Genesis 41:43





    Right after Regent Görgei assumed power over the country, he began addressing the nation's most stressing problems immediately. There was a strong sentiment in the revolutionary army that they, after fought for more than two years with the Austrian forces and finally achieved the sweet freedom, be granted to leave for their homes in great numbers and only a small force of soldiers to be kept in full war readyness at a time, protecting over the achieved freedom. The nation's low income also suggested this solution, since keeping such a large army drew away already all the incomes and put the country into high debt, increasing with about 30 pounds each day.

    But Görgei, being a professional soldier, was reluctant to make this move too hastily. He said, it was far the country could consolidate the achievements of the revolution without the help of the army. The nationalities still held significant parts of the country which couldn't be put down during the struggle of much fearsome enemies, although the biggest threat is now gone. Nevertheless, the finances were disturbing and a solution has to be found if Hungary wanted to keep their soldiers in arms for some time.

    In his first decree, Görgei introduced temporally military dictatorship. The upkeep of the army is put on the shoulders of the poor, altering the status quo of the Kossuth-cabinet which had an equal, bearable tax for everyone. The Governor's financial experts expected this move more or less would stop the further growing of the state debt. To ensure this, the army took a stroll in the country, eliminating the remaining forces of the numerous minority rebels and forcing the peasants to pay their due fee despite their protests.





    In this stressed athmosphere did start a new movement both across and inside our borders. Upon hearing of our success against Austria, the Croats, who in the times of our sore position during our independence fight sided with the Austrians against us, now, with us being the triumphant, thought it was time to betray the weakened Austria and rise against them in the Croat-populated territories remained under Austrian rule. Needless to say, this movement posed an open threat against our newly established state integrity too, since most of the Croats lived in the territory of Hungary.





    With this happening, the liberal wing inside Hungary rised once again. On the first glimpse, the debate was all about Croatia, and if we should support their struggle for independence by either offering them allied protection or at least granting them autonomy despite their previous behaviour against us, thus ensuring we are gaining more allies for our newly established country in the region. In reality, this debate pointed much far past this. It brought to the surface a much more important question again, which haunted Hungary ever since the driving off the Ottoman Turks from Hungary in the 17. century. However, for now Görgei had to choose in the Croatian question at hand, and since any other solution threatened with the final secession of this valuable region, which was unacceptable for the nobility, Görgei chosed to not intervene in the process in any way, but only keep an eye on the course of the events, and especially on the Croat territories under our rule. This finally brought our relation with our Croatian population really to the edge.





    Now it's time to talk about, whether it was clear enough to all the contemporary Hungarians or not, what was the real thing behind this debate ?

    The thing is that not only Hungary had her national revival in the 1848 revolutionary course. The country's numerous Slavic nationalities, aided by their own national states behind them, strived to dismantle the thousand-years old Hungarian kingdom and divide the territories between them. This issue united the othervise divided Slavic nations, and had them fight side-by-side against us. Hungarians, who on the other hand had no national reinforcements across their borders, and being an effective minority even in their own country, faced the question too if they can stand alone amongst the ocean of Slavic and Germanic masses in the new Europe which surrounded them. With the Germanic threat being put down for now, the danger of Panslavism still existed.



    1. Hungarian troops in battle with Serb revolters in early 1849.
    2. Alone against them all. The attackers' banner says "Panslavism".



    It comes without saying that the creation of the new Croat state across our borders only encouraged further our numerous minorities inside our borders. Something had to be done swiftly, of the two paths of either satisfying their wishes with even the cost of autonomies and thus separate the more moderate ones of them from the die-hard separatists, or... Well, with the decision of Görgei in the Croatian question, this "or" seemed to already gain some power in the debate. But this was just a half-solution, and not necessarily in connection of the main issue.


    As a decisive man, Regent Görgei set off to pursue a new set of policies towards the rebellious minorities and their supportive national states and address the issue to it's root. These set of policies became known as "The Gauntlet".


    The concept behind the policies was quite simple, however, and should be understandable easily as explained below:






    Moldavia, the little Romanian pricipality past the Carpathian mountains was quick to be introduced to our new policies. In this little satellite state the Ottoman Empire's souvereignity was quite formal and not closely monitored. Our battle-hardened army, the iron fist of General Görgei's administration, crossed the mountains to demonstrate an example and talk over this little "union issue" with the main agitators of the Romanian unity.

    Soon, after encountering some minor resistance, the Hungarian Royal Army occupied all of the state. The previous rebellious Romanian administration was completely overthrown, and has been replaced with those who are loyal to our cause. They had been forced to contribute to our military expenses too, after all, it has been done in their interest. The Gauntlet has hit them fair and swift.





    With this done, we did weed out a significant hope of Panslavism besieging our bastions, and our expenses for the first time ever, ceased to exceed our incomes. The intervention was a great success, and strenghtened further the position of Regent Görgei amongst the traditional groups he relied upon: the nobility, the clergy, and the officers. Few heard the complaints of the poor masses over the grave taxes. They were in large ammounts composed of the minorities anyway.

    But although Moldavia's fall teached the Panslavists a lesson, it did not shut their mouths completely. The other Romanian principality, Wallachia which along with Moldavia shouted a lot for "union" during our independence fight too, continued to make much noise in their relative feeling of safety, for there the Ottoman Empire's souvereignity was much stronger. The Ottoman ambassador was quick to make it clear that they would not tolerate further Hungarian expansion against the High Porta's sphere of influence.


    Görgei had to choose if it is time to be satisfied with this power demonstration to weaken the Panslavists, or risk a major war with the enormous, however weakened Ottoman Empire. Well..






    It was everything placed on one card. And the Sultan proved to be a realpolitician. After the most glorious Regent saw through his hollow threatenings, and facing an outnumbering army closing to his common border with us, he chosed to swallow his anger and accept that times changed sinse the times of Suleyman the Great. We taught them too a lesson of respect!



    As for Wallachia, their loud troublemakers had their mouth shut as soon as our army set foot on their land. Soon, again, the "persuading" was over. To make sure they experience the feeling of "unity", we had them face the very same terms their Moldavian brethrens had to accept:







    With this, the Romanians in our country were left without and external bastion to encourage them. There was still, however, a tougher nut remaining.


    What do the Romanians have in common with the South Slavs ? Well obviously that when they are finished working on the fields and paying the taxes to their foreign masters, they go to the tavern and daydream of a big Empire of theirs to be formed out amongst others of the thousand-years old kingdom of Hungary. The Croats, however, have fallen by now to Austria and her remaining allies lacking our, or any other countries' support. But the South Slavs still had a "saviour" they now placed all their hopes into... This one had a much more strong ally behind their backs than the Romanians did, not to mention their ally even had an old alliance dating back to the independence fight with our previous "protectors" who by now however became decadent democrats: the Austrians.



    This question really brought the opposition into a strong place. Wish for a long lasting peace echoed everywhere. We cannot risk our independence on minor gains against fearsome enemies. In the following days, everybody looked on Regent Görgei, if he will finally announce the end of these harsh jingoistic foreign policies. And...









    The answer is NO! Three times NO! We can't tolerate malicious troublemakers residing just a few kms from our borders, no matter the risk!


    Serbia was thus the third one to be crushed with The Gauntlet. Hungary will show she means business. This also made the peaceloving populace of Austria to finally break their obsolate alliance with the Russian tyrant. HA! They must have learned the lesson well that we taught them. Wise choice!


    But the Russians, outraged by our just preventive strike, decided to aid their little brothers. The northern Border Guard, consisted of elite troops, assumed position in the mountains to prevent Russian incursion to our territory. It was a race, all about if we can be decisive enough to force the Serbs to capitulate before the Russians could arrive in great numbers and turning the tide of war. Fortunately, Austria, in accordance with her neutrality, barred further Russian troops to pass through her territory. The Big Bear had to turn to her navy if she wanted to gain an edge on us.


    But the battle-hardened Hungarian troops, driven with jingoist fervor soon put an end to this question. With an outstanding march, they soon stood in the heart of Belgrade, putting down all resistance.


    All the suppressed animousity of the independence fight now has been let loose. With the Hungarian nation suffering the most during the Independence fight from the Serbian looting-murdering bands, the army now was ready to do a bloody revenge. As Belgrade fallen to Hungarian troops, the soldiers began to repay their sufferings to their ancient, now defenseless enemy's population.


    This was the time when Regent Görgei finally stepped forward. With all his prestige, he stopped the ensuing massacre, thus saving Hungarian honour and the glory of the banner from being corrupted with unnecessary violence:



    Enough!


    Also, he made clear to the Russians via our ambassador Andrássy, that he may not be able to prevent the thing from getting worse if they won't accept a peace swiftly. After quick and bitter negotiations, the Serbo-Russian alliance gave in. Serbia had to pay the most dearly price of them all: losing two-thirds of their country, the rest becoming Hungarian protectorate, PLUS paying indemnities for all the troubles they caused our nation in the past. This satisfied the bloodthirsty soldiers too, and for Görgei, this moment sure must have made him remembering the glory of Hungary a thousand years ago, when the conquering Hungarians established their rule over the native population of the Carpathian basin:






    The glory of the Hungarian Monarchy spread and reached lands afar. The outer bastions of Panslavism crumbled down. With their supporters from abroad became silent, the nationalities of Hungary bitterly became content of their fate. Regent Görgei announced it is time to shed the sword and raise hands for blessing. The veterans of the long war finally returned to their families.

    Rest for the dead - Life for the living!


    Rule Hungaria!



    With the noise of clashing arms being replaced with the silence of cemeteries and the lively sounds of labour, one stressing issue still remained for the state: the enormous outstanding debt. For this, despite all protests and beggings, the Regent decided to leave the taxes as high as they were set in the beginning of his rule. Now that most of the soldiers were sent home, the positive daily balance, along with the monthly countributions of the new vassal states under Hungary's rule, were fully redistributed to lower the debt. The bankers who placed their confidence in our state from the beginning could finally conclude it was an investment well worth the money. The most honourable Regent won't let the country face the shame of breaking her promises and go bankrupt! As we made serious efforts reducing our loans, the fellow European powers more and more started to value our country on it's due place under the Sun.





    As can be seen above, by the beginning of the year 1854, after about 2,5 years of the start of the consolidating program, Hungary fully payed the about 50,000 pounds state debt. In the second half of the program finally even the question of education could be addressed, putting an end to the unfortunate educational decline in the country due to the long war. Alas, it has to be noted that the heavy taxes made living very hard to the poor, so we experienced a wave of emigration to overseas. But away, away malicious traitors badmouthing our beloved Regent! Nothing comes for free; no pain, no gain. And we indeed gained: during the process, we assumed the fourth place amongst the nations! Our glory is to be told all over the globe. And..





    ...aside from slightly increasing our military readyness, and still receiving the indemnities from our vassals, we even succeeded to acquire the means to improve our industry due to our prestigious ranking in the World!




    Hungary got past her inner troubles and is now ready to go on whichever path her glorious Regent may set forth to her!

  5. #45
    Közhonvéd Hungarian Lord's Avatar
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    Really nice Hungarian AAR! Hope you will show the real Hungarian nation to the world...
    you've really encouraged me to play with Hungary, hope I won't be crushed in a few days.

  6. #46
    Fat Cat Public Servant Sir Humphrey's Avatar
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    This is a great read. Nice show.
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  7. #47
    Banned Scythian's Avatar

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    Thanks guys! I had not enough free time on my hands to play recently, but I strive to put together a new update next week.

    HL, as an avice, start converting soldiers and building troops from the start while you are at peace. You should be able to have a longer peace period than I had if you wait until Austria attacks too. The 20 troops you receive when you get into war should be enough to stabilise your borders immediately at the start since you can deploy them anywhere in your territory, but they may not be enough in the long run since you have a very long border with Austria. But if you can hold your position long enough, especially in the mountains and have a dug-in level of 20, you can stop large enemy forces with 1-2 divisions. Just hold on to your own territory as this will be a long war and troops standing on enemy territory suffer monthly losses, eventually Austria will offer peace after a time, especially if you make peace with her allies.

  8. #48
    Közhonvéd Hungarian Lord's Avatar
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    Well, I nearly did the same, but the Russian bear and the Prussians were really cruel with me.
    They sent in more than 150 000 soldiers. I got crushed in 3 moths.
    But I'll try again for sure!

  9. #49
    Scythian tell me please from where did you get these nice flags?
    I was a little bit disappointed when I saw that they aren't included in VIP.

  10. #50
    Banned Scythian's Avatar

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    Hungarian Lord, good, keep on trying! I guess I just was lucky with the Prussians and Russkies that (after numerous tries) they accepted peace, otherwise I think they would break through my fronts too..

    Gergő, ah yes, the flags! Yeah, I found disappointing them too, especially the vanilla Austrian flag so it was the first thing I changed. There is a thread in the Victoria - graphic modification thread called Flag requests. Xiechengnuo (I hope I spelled him right) made a lot of nice custom Vic flags, the flagdir is in his sig and would make the ultimate choice for flags - but unfortunately, his site was constantly down last time I checked, so I had to browse a number of posts till I found a site where I could find some flags to replace at least the most boring ones. But you don't need that, I uploaded the ones I use here

    Austria

    Russia

    And this one is intended to be a fantasy-Great Germany flag (Germany+Austria), I looked for it for my previous game as Prussia , so not really authentic, but still much better than the vanilla Germany flag:

    Germany

    To install, simply overwrite the corresponding default flags and shields in the main victoria flagdir with them (and maybe the monarchist version too, anyway backup the original flags before replacing them). The shield is the bigger image, the flag is the numerous small images. One of the archives contain 3 flags, one of them is a 24bit version of the flag, that is better quality, but it won't disappear during fog of war. I suggest not using that version, but the plain one.

    Enjoy

  11. #51
    Hostile native Brownbeard's Avatar
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    A very entertaining AAR

    Have you comissioned Szent Istvan yet? Access to open seas is no good without a fleet... make baby Horthy smile
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  12. #52
    Compulsive CommentatAAR stnylan's Avatar
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    Good, fun reading.
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  13. #53
    Banned Scythian's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownbeard
    A very entertaining AAR

    Have you comissioned Szent Istvan yet? Access to open seas is no good without a fleet... make baby Horthy smile
    Unfortunately no ol' Croat, I had enough problems with the state debt without that too.. but it may change in the future now that I finally payed back that As a sidenote, although Horthy wasn't even born by this time, I do not lack interesting historical characters without him neither. As a bit of insight into my plans, I found another interesting personality from the Monarchial era whom I plan to weave the next story around. This need to be played through first tought if I'm able to acomplish what I have plotted.

    stnylan, thanks and welcome, I'm glad you joined too!

  14. #54
    Hostile native Brownbeard's Avatar
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    C'mon, you have all the time you need to build it... it will make one boy real happy in 1868.
    There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain.

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  15. #55
    Wile E. Coyote, Genius Akaki's Avatar
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    How about buying/taking Galicia from Austria and begin rebuilding Poland...?

  16. #56
    Közhonvéd Hungarian Lord's Avatar
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    You should go against the Turks and 'liberate' the poor nationalities...

    Edit: Yay 200th post!

  17. #57
    Banned Scythian's Avatar

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    Wow, so much things to do! Well a Poland would sure be nice. Polak Węgier dwa bratanki Too bad my industry is crap for buying now (from them at least) and although I might be able to stop their army if they would come, they can stop me as well. The Szent István is quite charming too, I guess at least that will be surely done by '68. Oh yes, and there are the Turks too.. Now we miss suggestions only about annexing Russia

    But we have some time 'till the end of this AAR, isn't it ? Maybe I can play some today and see if I can go further to either of these goals.

  18. #58
    Közhonvéd Hungarian Lord's Avatar
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    Nah, don't annex Russia, make UK a Hungarian colony!

  19. #59
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    Nice story of Hungary.

    Clearly the way forward for Hungary lies overseas!

  20. #60
    Second Lieutenant Gergo's Avatar

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    Well, that's really a nice story! It was good to read the glorius deeds of Regent Gorgei...
    I'm wondering who will be the next important historical person whom around you can weave the next story. Maybe one member of the Tisza-family??
    Reginam occidere nolite, timere bonum est, si omnes consentiunt, ego non, contradico. - Don't kill the queen, it's good to be afraid of it, if everybody agrees, I don't, I oppose it.

    Reginam occidere nolite timere, bonum est si omnes consentiunt, ego non contradico. - Don't be afraid of killing the queen, it's good if everybody agrees, I don't oppose it.

    Message of the archbishop of Esztergom (János) to the conspirators who killed queen Gertrudis, wife of András II (1213)
    (of course without commas... )

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