Leaders

[StephenT]

I think we agreed to the following formula:

- Officers who die of natural causes or commit suicide should be given an appropriate death date.
- Officers killed in action should be allowed to live until the end of the game.

Did we agree that officers who were sacked for political reasons not specifically related to their performance in battle should also have death dates? (I'm thinking, for example, of the many superannuated French generals given the sack by Joffre in 1914)

Also, would 'natural causes' include accidents? Or being on board a ship which runs into a minefield?

[Allenby]

Did we agree that officers who were sacked for political reasons not specifically related to their performance in battle should also have death dates? (I'm thinking, for example, of the many superannuated French generals given the sack by Joffre in 1914)

Also, would 'natural causes' include accidents? Or being on board a ship which runs into a minefield?

We have given death dates to those officers who retired - von Moltke, septuagenarian Germans, for example, so officers sacked for incompetence, such as some of the fossilised French generals ought also to be given a death date too.

'Natural causes' is probably not a particularly useful term - 'non-war related death' may be better! So whilst the instance of General Smith-Dorrien getting knocked down by a car would necessitate a death date, Lord Kitchener being drowned on board Hampshire as a result of hitting a German mine would not.

[Allenby]

Perhaps we should give them an event to sleep them?

I suppose this would ensure that their deaths aren't inevitable, but the need for the writing of extra events may be somewhat vexing both for those who have to write them, and those who have to play and necessarily be informed that one of their officers has died every fifteen or twenty minutes.

We may just assume that those who did die in the circumstances of old age or through suicide did so through God's will - perhaps the Almighty did not intend Samsonov to have the balls to confront the Tsar after Tannenberg?

[StephenT]

'Natural causes' is probably not a particularly useful term - 'non-war related death' may be better! So whilst the instance of General Smith-Dorrien getting knocked down by a car would necessitate a death date, Lord Kitchener being drowned on board Hampshire as a result of hitting a German mine would not.

I'm not so sure about Kitchener. As I understand it, the reason so many people object to leader deaths is because they find it unrealistic to get a "this leader died on the battlefield" message if the leader in question isn't actually anywhere near the front line at the time.

But Kitchener wasn't anywhere near the front line when he died - his death was just a random chance. Just as it would have been if he and Colonel FitzGerald had been taking tea on the lawn of Broome Park when a German Zeppelin jettisoned five tons of water ballast on their heads. A war-related death, yes, but one that could happen to anyone, anywhere.

Although maybe instead of representing this with death dates, we should just have more random events like this one:

event = {
	id = ???
	random = yes
	trigger = {
		atwar = yes
		}
	}
	name = "Accidental death of a leader"
	desc = "Onr of our senior officers has met with a tragic accident. 
 	He will be sadly missed."
	picture = "comander_assasinated"
	style = 0

	action_a = {
			name = "Oh no!"
			command = { type = sleepleader which = -1 }
	}
}

[Oksel]

New generals:

Kondic Vladimir rank 2
Milijic Ljubomir rank 2
Milisavljevic Miroslav rank 2
Popovic Damjan rank 3
Solarevic Leonida rank 2

Grujic Sava died in 1913 so he can't be in the 1914 Mod.
Now we have two generals with the same surname Popovic and they must be renamed to Popovic V and Popovic D.

The pictures for these leaders and many more were sent to Allenby.

[jova]

We have Kondic ,D.Popovic and Milic in the list already. I will add Solarevic and Milisavljevic and correct the years for Grujic.

[Oksel]

I hope you have the pictures for all these generals including Terzic Bozidar
Rasic Mihailo, Vasic Milos, Aracic Vukoman, Gojkovic Ilija, Jankovic Bozidar,
Popovic Vojin, Zivkovic Mihailo and Stefanovic Nikodije. Also I think that Vojin Popovic better known as "Duke Vuk" should have some special traits. I also found pictures of Pesic Petar, Martinovic M and Hadzic Stevan and I will send them to Allenby next week. Can you send me (as a private message) a complete list of Serbian and Montenegrian leaders when you update the list?
Maybe I can find more pictures and more leaders.

[Dusan]

I hope this would help

Typical organization of a Serbian division:

Drinska Divizija I Poziva, 1912:


- Komandant (Commander): Col. Pavle Jurisic-Sturm
- Headquarters:
Lt. Col. Dragomir Milojevic, Maj. Pantelija Jurisic, Lt. Col. (Art.) Milutin Katanic, Maj. (Eng.) Radisav Zecevic

- 4. Pesadijski Puk "Stefan Nemanja" (4th Inf. Rgt.): Lt. Col. Dragutin I. Dimitrijevic
- 5. Pesadijski Puk "Kralj Milan" (5th Inf. Rgt.): Lt. Col. Jovan Vasic,
- 6. Pesadijski Puk "Prestolonaslednik Kraljevic Aleksandar" (6th Inf. Rgt.): Lt. Col. Djura Dokic
- 17. Pesadijski Puk (17th Inf. Rgt): Lt. Col. Miladin Masalovic
- Konjicki Puk (Cavalry Rgt.): Maj. Mladen Lukicevic
- Artiljerijski Puk (Artillery Rgt.): Lt. Col. Bozidar Sreckovic
- Inzenjerijski Polubataljon (Engineer Half-battalion): Cpt. Milutin Jankovic

or complete organisation by armies


- Dunavska Divizija I Poziva (Danube I Poziv) 1912:

* Headquarters (Col. Milos Bozanovic)
* 7th Infantry Rgt "Kralj Petar I"
* 8th Infantry Rgt
* 9th Infantry Rgt
* 18th Infantry Rgt.
* Divisional Cavalry Rgt.
* 3rd Divisional Artillery Rgt.


Serbian OOB during the Siege of Scutari (Albania, winter 1912-1913):

- Drina Divisional Area (Drinska Divizija I Poziva, Drinska Divizija II Poziva, Uzicka Vojska):

4th "Stefan Nemanja", 5th "Kralj Milan", 6th "Prestolonaslednik Aleksandar" and 17th Inf. Rgt. I Poziv
4th, 5th and 6th Inf Rgt. II Poziv
2nd Guards Rgt.
Drina Artillery Rgt.
Drina Cavalry Rgt. I Poziv
Drina Cavalry Rgt. II Poziv
Ind. Cavalry Sqadron II Poziv
Various III Poziv units


1st Serbian Army 1914:

Commander: General Petar Bojovic
Chief of Staff: Colonel Bozidar Terzic
Timok Division I (with renown 13th Inf. Rgt. "Hajduk Veljko")
Timok Division II
Danube Division II
Cavalry Division
Branicevo detachment

2nd Serbian Army 1914:

Commander: General Stepa Stepanovic
Chief of Staff: Colonel Vojislav Zivanovic
Sumadija Division I
Danube Division I (Col. Milivoje Andjelkovic-Kajafa)
Combined Division I
Morava Division I

3rd Serbian Army 1914:

Commander: General Pavle Jurisic-Sturm
Chief of Staff: Colonel Dusan Pesic
Drina Division I (Col. Krsta Smiljanic)
Drina Division II
Morava Division II (with renown 3rd Inf Rgt II Poziv "Gvozdeni")

Uzice Army (Uzicka Vojska)

Commander: General Milos Bozanovic
Sumadija Division II

[Tunch Khan]

Mahmut Şevket Paşa : In 1908, when he was a Full general and Commander of the 3rd Army, he suppressed the Revolt of March 31 with his “ Operation Army”. Later he became the Defense Minister of Ottoman Empire. He is the pioneer of establishing First Air Branch in the Turkish Army in 1911. He resigned later on June 9, 1912. He became Defense Minister again on January 23, 1913. He was shot and killed on June 11,1913, while driving in his automobile, going up to Babıali, in Istanbul.

Lt Col. Süreyya İlmen : He graduated from Military Academy in 1894. In 1897 he graduated from the army Staff College. He made studies on his book” Airplanes” in 1911. He was appointed as the Head of the Turkish Air Force., when it was first established as a subdivision of the General Staff.

From left to right: Ottoman Pilots: Sadik Bey, Ismail Hakki Bey, Captain Fethi Bey and Lieutenant Nuri Bey, at the onset of the Cairo Expedition.


Sadik Bey (left) and Captain Fethi Bey (right), in a Beirut issued postcard recalling them as the Martyrs of the Nation.

[Kaiser Franz]

those will certainly help...thanks Tunch

[Kaiser Franz]

CSL_GG could you do those Turks and the Mexicans i have found as well...just over this and the page before...thanks if you can!

[CSL_GG]

When exams are finished i'll get working on them.

[Kaiser Franz]

many thanks...

[Oksel]

The Updated Liberian leader list

John H. Anderson rank 1 ( also a minister Chief of Staff and Chief of Army )
Samuel L. Smith rank 3

[Oksel]

Army Leaders
Chakrabongse Bhuvanath (Prince) Field Marshall
Nakhon Jaisri Suradej (Prince) Field Marshall
Purachatra Jayakara (Prince) rank 1
Kamphaengbejra Agrayodhin rank 2
Phraya Chalerm Arkas rank 3

Navy leaders
Chao Phraya Ram Raghop rank 1

Air Leaders
Luang Sakdi Salyavudh
Luang Arvudhsikikorn
Luang Thayanpikart

[Scholes]

I had just started 1914 as Sweden (of course), and the first thing i noticed was the great lack of pictures for both Ministers and Leaders.. If you send me a list of all missing leaders and ministers for Sweden i will try to dig up as many pictures as i can. I still have a good source to find pictures from this time.

I have no skills in how to make them in HOI2 format, but if you send me a instruction how to do i could try to make them in HOI2 format.

If you need something else with Sweden, maybe i can help you.. Just ask..

[Kaiser Franz]

If you could just look at the lists and see who don't have pics andf find them, i'm sure one of the guys can make them into leader pics for you...but thanks alot..Scandinavia is a hard subject to research especailly when they did no actual fighting...thanks for the help!

[Scholes]

OK.. I have take a look at the ministers, and my first question is why you havn´t gave Gustaf V a picture....



53001;Head of State;Gustav V;NA;PA ML LE;Popular Figurehead;NA;gustav_v_swe;x
53007;Chief of Staff;Gustav V;NA;SL;School of Psychology;High;gustav_v_swe;x
53008;Chief of Army;Gustav V;NA;SL;Static Defense Doctrine;High;unknown;x <------- HERE
53009;Chief of Navy;Gustav V;NA;SL;Power Projection Doctrine;High;unknown;x <------ HERE
53095;Head of State;Gustav V;NA;PA;Popular Figurehead;NA;gustav_v_swe;x
53021;Chief of Staff;Gustaf V;NA;PA;School of Psychology;Very High;gustav_v_swe;x



I have also searched for some pictures you had lack of..
53099;Minister of Security;Sven Hedin;NA;PA;Man of the People;High;hedin_sven_swe;x
53020;Head of Military Intelligence;Sven Hedin;NA;PA;Dismal Enigma;High;hedin_sven_swe;x Sven Hedin

53045;Minister of Armament;Per Albin Hansson;17;ML;Military Entrepeneur;High;hansson_albin_per_swe;x Per Albin Hansson

53012;Foreign Minister;Knut Wallenberg;NA;ML;Ideological Crusader;High;wallenberg_knut_swe;x Knut Wallenberg

53013;Minister of Armament;Axel Vennersten;NA;ML;Administrative Genius;High;vennersten_axel_swe;x Axel Vennersten

53035;Head of Government;Nils Edén;NA;SL;Flamboyant Tough Guy;NA;eden_nils_swe;x Nils Eden

53042;Minister of Armament;Rickard Sandler;NA;SD;Resource Industrialist;High;sandler_rickard_swe;x Rickard Sandler





Also.. I would like to add some ministers..
Head of Military Intelligence;Carl Gustaf Westman;NA;ML;Political Specialist;High;westman_gustaf_carl_swe;x Carl Gustaf Westman

Minister of Security;Berndt Hasselroth;NA;ML;Crime Fighter;High;hasselroth_berndt_swe;x Berndt Hasselroth

Minister of Armament;Johan Beck-Friis;NA;ML;Administrative Genius;High;beck-friis_johan_swe;x Johan Beck-Friis

These three was avaible around 1914

I will try to update both Ministers and Leaders at a later stage..
Should i send this pictures to Allenby?

Thank you Oksel for helping me with the right format.

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I took a look at you post and wodered why you didn´t post this in the ministers thread,

[Allenby]

Leaders, ministers, whatever.

At least they're posted. Thanks very much!