• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I've just been comparing construction and build files for various AI files and checking out the 'UNITS' thread.
These are my notes on TGW => 1914 AI files
What has become what.
Queries and problems are in bold.

military = {


#### Divisions etc... ~ was (TGW)
infantry = Infantry ~ infantry
cavalry = Cavalry ~ cavalry
motorized = Reserve Infantry ~ -
mechanized = Armour ~ panzer
light_armor = Guards Infantry ~ motorized
armor = Assault Infantry ~ motorized
paratrooper = Light Infantry ~ paratrooper
marine = Marine Infantry ~ marine
bergsjaeger = Mountain Infantry ~ bergsjaeger
garrison = Garrison Infantry ~ (mechanized)
hq = HQ ~ -
militia = Militia ~ militia
#
My one gripe here Allenby: Would like to swap to
armor = Armour
mechanized = Assault Infantry
What say you? (It’s OK to say NO BTW. :rolleyes: - just submit a 10,000 word essay giving your reasons please… ;) )

interceptor = Scout Fighter
multi_role = Two-Seat Fighter
escort = Escort Fighter
cas = Recon/Bomber
strategic_bomber = strategicbomber
tactical_bomber = Contour Bomber??
naval_bomber = torpedo plane?? Seaplane??
transport_plane = transport_plane
flying_bomb = Airship??
flying_rocket = GAS?
#



carrier = carrier
battleship = battleship
battlecruiser = # new type – was this included with battleship?
heavy_cruiser = heavy_cruiser
light_cruiser = # new type – was this included with heavy cruiser?
destroyer = destroyer
submarine = submarine
transports = transports
#
Will need to know relative numbers of Battlecruisers and Light Cruisers.


My suggested match ups based on brigade types you have proposed in ‘UNITS’ thread:
#### Brigades
artillery = # Artillery Section
sp_artillery = # horse artillery? (as proposed by PB_DK) OR Heavy Artillery?
rocket_artillery = # Heavy Weapons Section
sp_rct_artillery = # Communications Section
anti_tank = # Anti-Tank Artillery Section
tank_destroyer = # Medical Section
light_armor_brigade = # Cavalry Section
heavy_armor = # Tank Section
super_heavy_armor = # Supply Train Section
armored_car = # Armored Car Section
anti_air = # Anti-Air Artillery Section
police = # Gendarmery Section
engineer = # Engineer Section


cag = 100.000
}

Could we make ‘GAS’ or a brigade attachment? To represent special units to deploy and combat against it?

technology = {
#
}
What were the research priorities of various nations?
And Finally:

###################################
# Ground Combat, Leaders and Garrisons
###################################
leader_ratio = {
#
}
I can get these from TGW Leader.csv files Any help appreciated though!


Comments / changes?

And, will someone PLEASE tell me why all my tab stops disappear when I post to the forum and how to make them work again? :(
 
Last edited:
currently reworking some ai stuff so that there is a better use of 'smaller' switches based off a basic ai... will give a bit more info as we get a bit more near the weekend
 
czar1111 said:
My one gripe here Allenby: Would like to swap to
armor = Armour
mechanized = Assault Infantry
What say you?
Seems a logical idea to me...

cas = Recon/Bomber
strategic_bomber = strategicbomber
tactical_bomber = Contour Bomber??
naval_bomber = torpedo plane?? Seaplane??
transport_plane = transport_plane
flying_bomb = Airship??
flying_rocket = GAS?

cas should be contour bomber
tactical_bomber should be recon/bomber
naval_bomber should be seaplane
transport_plane should be airship
flying_bomb should be gas
I don't think we've got an equivalent for flying_rocket.

There were no paratroopers in WW1, hence no transport planes either...

Will need to know relative numbers of Battlecruisers and Light Cruisers.
Battlecruisers used to be a specific model of battleship, and light cruisers were included with cruisers.

As of 1914 the major navies had the following ratios of BB:BC -

Britain 22:9 (2.4:1)
Germany 15:5 (3:1)
Japan 2:1
No other countries had any BCs at all.

Similar ratios of CA:CL -

Britain 34:87 (1:2.6)
Germany 7:33 (1:4.7)
USA 12:22 (1:1.8)
France 19:9 (2.1:1)
Russia 6:6 (1:1)
Japan 12:21 (1:1.8)
Italy 7:14 (1:2)

And, will someone PLEASE tell me why all my tab stops disappear when I post to the forum and how to make them work again? :(

Code:
Have you tried using the code tag instead of the quote one?
 
czar1111 said:
My one gripe here Allenby: Would like to swap to
armor = Armour
mechanized = Assault Infantry
What say you? (It’s OK to say NO BTW. :rolleyes: - just submit a 10,000 word essay giving your reasons please… ;) )

No. :p

I won't provide you with a 10 000 word essay, but I can provide 35 words:

That change would mean that Guards Infantry would be upgraded to Armour as the Light Armour to Armour upgrade probably is hardcoded. Keeping the current system, Guards Infantry will upgrade to Assault Infantry. Much better.

Is that enough? :)

/Johan
 
Johan Elisson said:
No. :p

I won't provide you with a 10 000 word essay, but I can provide 35 words:

That change would mean that Guards Infantry would be upgraded to Armour as the Light Armour to Armour upgrade probably is hardcoded. Keeping the current system, Guards Infantry will upgrade to Assault Infantry. Much better.

Is that enough? :)

/Johan

light armor upgrades at model 3 or 4, if you start of guards at model 5 then you avoid that problem... which also means that you can use model 0-4 for light armor... (i think it was that way... ask the stony team, they worked on it)

on a side note, im very active at TRP, and if there is AI questions, ask them there and we(I) will do our best to help out
 
PB-DK said:
currently reworking some ai stuff so that there is a better use of 'smaller' switches based off a basic ai... will give a bit more info as we get a bit more near the weekend

PB-DK,

I considered emulating the Schlieffen Plan by writing a series of AIs which all had very specific provience targets and AI switches which changed AI when each target was reached.
That way I thought it might be possible to emulate the Wheel through Belgium?
In order to force the German retreat, I considered the use of events to give the French and British a 'bonus' event to give them a temporary advantage in combat (as used in the 'Pearl Harbour' event) to halt German Advance and force retreat.
Is this a workable idea? :confused:
 
Allenby, just say "Yes" and I will make these changes

StephenT said:
cas should be contour bomber
tactical_bomber should be recon/bomber
naval_bomber should be seaplane
transport_plane should be airship
flying_bomb should be gas

Battlecruisers used to be a specific model of battleship, and light cruisers were included with cruisers.

As of 1914 the major navies had the following ratios of BB:BC -

Britain 22:9 (2.4:1)
Germany 15:5 (3:1)
Japan 2:1
No other countries had any BCs at all.

Similar ratios of CA:CL -

Britain 34:87 (1:2.6)
Germany 7:33 (1:4.7)
USA 12:22 (1:1.8)
France 19:9 (2.1:1)
Russia 6:6 (1:1)
Japan 12:21 (1:1.8)
Italy 7:14 (1:2)
Thank you! THAT is exactly what I needed! :)

Code:
Have you tried using the code tag instead of the quote one?
Thank you again! :cool:
 
Leadership, Research, HQs and AI files.

Hi All,
I have been quietly pottering away working on these AIs
Making progress :)

Now came to this:
Code:
leader_ratio = {
	land_field_marshal 	=0.083
	land_general 		=0.166
	land_lt_general 	=0.333

	sea_grand_admiral 	=0.083
	sea_admiral 		=0.166
	sea_vice_admiral 	=0.333

	air_marshal 		=0.083
	air_general 		=0.166
	air_lt_General 	=0.333
}
And got a bit stuck – what were the correct values for each nation?

Then hit upon the idea of using the TGW leadership files to deduce these ratios :D
Have done that now and was able to generate a spreadsheet which has the ‘correct’ leadership ratios for each nation.

So, for example
Code:
British Leaders		Number		Ratio		
land_field_marshal		1			.003
land_general			16			.052
land_lt_general		33			.108
mj gens			99			# Does not matter
sea_grand_admiral		0			 .000
sea_admiral 			14			.046
sea_vice_admiral		11			.036
rear admirals			76			# Does not matter
air_marshal			0			.000
air_general 			0			.000
air_lt_General			0			.000
air mj gens			56			# Does not matter

Now, do you think this is a fair way to do this?
My big concern is that almost no nation has any ranking Air Generals. What do you think?
How does this part of the AI interact with the “Historical Promotions” in the leader files? Anyone know?

Now, the next part was figuring out how many HQs each nation should build.
The problem here is that in order to build HQs you have to build proportionately less of something else (or maybe everything else) and there is a big IC cost associated with HQs (maybe we will change that?).

So I decided to try figuring out what proportion of Army Officers were of Field Marshal or General Rank and build that proportion of HQs.

I got some interesting results.
Based on that
Code:
HQs as a proportion of Army units?
British			11%
Austria Hungary	20%
Germany		24%
France			19%
Russia			28%

Now that seems a little top heavy! But is it?
Does this represent the overall bureaucracy in the system?
HQs are not just HQs. It represents the whole chain of logistics and Command IMHO.
After all, that would mean that the AI constantly wasted resources on producing ‘HQs’ – but the ESE at the front would be excellent!
It would certainly slow the war down – and it might lead to a stalemate on the western front perhaps?

I am interested in your opinions. My initial thought was to ‘cap’ the number of HQs at 5% What do you think?

Next came this:
Code:
technology = { 
	endgoal 	= { } 
	preference 	= { } 
	ignore 		= { }
 
	armor 			= 0 
	infantry 		= 0
	industry 		= 0
	aircraft 		= 0
	naval 			= 0
	land_doctrines 	= 0
	secret_weapons 	= 0
	air_doctrines 		= 0
	naval_doctrines	= 0
}
It occurred to me here that this was a political thing and again I could use the leader lists.
The force with the most leaders would have the most political clout and would get the biggest research budget?
Fair assumption?
Then I further divided up this based on the assumption that high ranking leaders (F.Ms and Generals) would be more interested in Doctrines while lower ranking Generals (Lt Gens and Mj Gens) would be more interested in development.

I weighted the results to reflect the fact that Higher Ranking officers tend to get their way more often too. :rolleyes:
So, for Britain I get this:

Code:
	armor 			= 0 # Unknown. Different AI to execute Plan 1919?
	infantry 		= 0.40
	industry 		= 0 # To be decided
	aircraft 		= 0.14
	naval 			= 0.24
	land_doctrines 	= 0.13
	secret_weapons 	= 0 # To be decided
	air_doctrines 		= 0.00
	naval_doctrines	= 0.10

So? Fair Approach?
The problem here is that as almost no nation has any ranking air officers almost no-one does any Air Doctrine research. Will have to tinker with that.

Now obviously, all these values can be changed when the AIs are tested – but as a starting approach to the problem – what do you think?

Obviously we can not discuss every value to the nth degree so is this a good blanket method?

Anyway, while you all discuss this I’m off to start recording target provinces for the various nations and AIs.

:D
 
czar1111 said:
Now, do you think this is a fair way to do this?
My big concern is that almost no nation has any ranking Air Generals. What do you think?
How does this part of the AI interact with the “Historical Promotions” in the leader files? Anyone know?

I've not the foggiest, sorry.


czar1111 said:
Now that seems a little top heavy! But is it?
Does this represent the overall bureaucracy in the system?
HQs are not just HQs. It represents the whole chain of logistics and Command IMHO.
After all, that would mean that the AI constantly wasted resources on producing ‘HQs’ – but the ESE at the front would be excellent!
It would certainly slow the war down – and it might lead to a stalemate on the western front perhaps?

I am interested in your opinions. My initial thought was to ‘cap’ the number of HQs at 5% What do you think?

It might be best to adjust HQ priorities according to the size of the army, not the number of commanders. :)


czar1111 said:
It occurred to me here that this was a political thing and again I could use the leader lists.
The force with the most leaders would have the most political clout and would get the biggest research budget?
Fair assumption?

The prioritising of technological research should be done on a case by case basis. Use the TGW AI files as a reference. :) Unsurprisingly, infantry research tends to dominate in all files...
 
czar1111 said:
Then hit upon the idea of using the TGW leadership files to deduce these ratios. [...] Now, do you think this is a fair way to do this?
My big concern is that almost no nation has any ranking Air Generals. What do you think?

One thing to be wary of is that the leader lists do reflect the comprehensiveness of the sources available to us, as well as the actual number of leaders in service - especially at the lower ranks. (There are many sources available listing all of a country's army and army group commanders, but it's harder to find lists of all Major-Generals). In other words, I'd use these ratios as an average rather than trying to make detailed distinctions between different countries.

There are also problems with people's historical ranks not reflecting the rank they need to have in the game in order to command the size of unit they did historically. Britain not having any Grand Admirals is a case in point - my revised leader list for 1914 promotes a couple of leaders to this rank for just that reason.

As for air leaders, this reflects the fact that in 1914, no country had more than a few hundred aircraft in service, and they were generally deployed in groups of 4 - 6 maximum attached directly to army units. Limiting the available leaders at the start of the scenario is intended as a control on players building unhistorically huge air armies in 1914. However, I don't think it should prevent them focussing heavily on air research and rapidly promoting air leaders once they do realise the benefits of airpower. As early as 1915 France was planning a 1,000 aircraft strong bomber force.


I am interested in your opinions. My initial thought was to ‘cap’ the number of HQs at 5% What do you think?

What level of command are HQs meant to represent? Army or army group? A 5% ration (one HQ per three 9-division armies, near enough) implies army group. Perhaps take a look at the later-war scenarios in HoI2: what ratio of HQs to combat divisions are shown there?
 
Allenby said:
It might be best to adjust HQ priorities according to the size of the army, not the number of commanders. :)
So maybe a 5% cap or similar.
Interestingly there are two major nations that are "undercommanded" based on my formuli
Italy at 5% and USA at 3%. Oddly, that seems to tie in with something I recently saw about the US and how it had a tiny army up to 1917.

The prioritising of technological research should be done on a case by case basis. Use the TGW AI files as a reference. :) Unsurprisingly, infantry research tends to dominate in all files...
Yes. There are one or two countries that this is not the case however.
Japan being the most noteable example. More Navy officers - more navy research. Sounds reasonable.

StephenT said:
In other words, I'd use these ratios as an average rather than trying to make detailed distinctions between different countries.
Yes. I am not taking them as absolute by any means. And specific research goals will have to be set at a later time. But a good starting point I thought.

The Air Doctrine and Aircraft research will definately require a bit of adjustment.
 
czar1111 said:
Leadership, Research, HQs and AI files.

Hi All,
I have been quietly pottering away working on these AIs
Making progress :)

Now came to this:
Code:
leader_ratio = {
	land_field_marshal 	=0.083
	land_general 		=0.166
	land_lt_general 	=0.333

	sea_grand_admiral 	=0.083
	sea_admiral 		=0.166
	sea_vice_admiral 	=0.333

	air_marshal 		=0.083
	air_general 		=0.166
	air_lt_General 	=0.333
}
And got a bit stuck – what were the correct values for each nation?

Then hit upon the idea of using the TGW leadership files to deduce these ratios :D
Have done that now and was able to generate a spreadsheet which has the ‘correct’ leadership ratios for each nation.

So, for example
Code:
British Leaders		Number		Ratio		
land_field_marshal		1			.003
land_general			16			.052
land_lt_general		33			.108
mj gens			99			# Does not matter
sea_grand_admiral		0			 .000
sea_admiral 			14			.046
sea_vice_admiral		11			.036
rear admirals			76			# Does not matter
air_marshal			0			.000
air_general 			0			.000
air_lt_General			0			.000
air mj gens			56			# Does not matter

Now, do you think this is a fair way to do this?
My big concern is that almost no nation has any ranking Air Generals. What do you think?
How does this part of the AI interact with the “Historical Promotions” in the leader files? Anyone know?

It depends on the number of divisions, not the number of leaders : 100 divisions -> 8 FM, 16 GEN, 33 LT GEN. All other leaders should be Maj Gen. According the ai_file_doc.txt :eek:o
 
A question:
Are you going to use land fortresses to represent trench warfare?

My thought is that instead of making fortresses, as soon as the germans are in france, an AI switch should occur for France and Germany setting "dig_in" setting to a really low value, making the dug in units very hard to kick out of their positions.
IMHO that would make it much more realistic, because the trench warfare will trigger only when the units get a chance to dig in, rather than just at random points in time.

The negative side of that is
1. the AI is used to contantly shuffle its units on the frontline not letting them to dig in.
2. the dig_in values might automatically be applied to eastern front also.

If you can find a way to get around the negative side, the war on the western front will be much more realistic.


Also, in addition to using "passivity" and "enemy_handicap" values to represent the AI focus on certain front, you can now use the "max_front_ratios" setting also.
For example the standard schlieffen plan priorities might look something like this:

max_front_ratios = {
FRA = 1 # No superiority is needed on the French border, the fortresses will take care of their attacks
BEL = 10 # Obviously, that's where the German forces will have to march.
LUX = 2 # Luxemburg will quickly disappear from the map so no need to overwhelm them
RUS = 0.4 # Don't pay much attention to Russian attacks
}
front = {
passivity = {
RUS = 80 # Don't attack Russia
FRA = 40 # Don't attack France until Belgium is taken over
}
enemy_handicap = {
RUS = 180
FRA = 180
}
}

Then make additional AIs for the war against French when Belgium is overran (remove passivity and handicap values for French, set their front priority to 3 or higher); and in case Russians get too close to Berlin - cancel schlieffen plan (remove passivity and handicap values for Russians, but add for French and Belgians, set Russian front priority to 3 or higher, French and Belgian front priority to 1.2 or 1)
 
We are going to make them forts, as in HOI1, if the AI switch you refer to means that the same thing happens to the eastern front, then the game will be much more ahistorical and we don´t want that.
 
We are going to make them forts, as in HOI1, if the AI switch you refer to means that the same thing happens to the eastern front, then the game will be much more ahistorical and we don´t want that.
Yeah that might be the problem as I said above, but i thought you guys can come up with something to solve it.
Otherwise, having forts apperar when you are advancing at full speed is kind of silly :)

Anyway, thanks for responce.
 
I have to concur with PB-DK. The best place in the world to ask about HOI2 AI questions is on the TRP website. We all check it several times a day. I found this thread by sheer accident but on the TRP website I would not miss it and would be able to answer any questions in regards to the AI and also listen to any suggestions for change and pursue them with Paradox. The link is in my signature and good luck with TGW
 
PB-DK,

I considered emulating the Schlieffen Plan by writing a series of AIs which all had very specific provience targets and AI switches which changed AI when each target was reached.
That way I thought it might be possible to emulate the Wheel through Belgium?

the wheel idea could work as long as the triggers are kept as loose as possible(read as simple as possible) so as to not lock the ai into a 'fixed' history and keep the ai flexible enough to challenge a human player

In order to force the German retreat, I considered the use of events to give the French and British a 'bonus' event to give them a temporary advantage in combat (as used in the 'Pearl Harbour' event) to halt German Advance and force retreat.
Is this a workable idea?

sure it could be worked...


So?

Patch 1.2 is released.

PB-DK does that mean you are free to repost your AI files now?

Must admit, I have not downloaded 1.2 yet and may not for a while (I'm still pretty happy with HoI out of the box)
But, will 1.2 be the basis for the 1914 mod?
I assume it will and assume that the files PB-DK posted are compatible with it?

the ai's will be up sometime this week after i have checked them... seems i have some trouble with starting hoi 2 with the 1.2 patch so i need to get it worked out before then...