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@ KingMississippi,

If you are working on Bulgarian OOB, I suggest that you add one extra 50 max_strength inf division for every inf division, because Bulgarian divisions were much larger than those of other nations.

Example: for "1-va 'Sofijska' pehotna divizija" with strength 100 you also make "3-ta brigada/1-va divizija" with strength 50.
 
jova said:
Why only these have HQ's? :confused: Other nations could also have it, maybe with decreased strength.

We decided to grant these countries with HQ units because they possessed the largest armies in Europe. Notably, the command structures of the various armies in 1914 underwent notable strain because of the inadequate command and control, and it was decided that it would be realistic to portray these difficulties by restricting the number of HQ units to one per major power. :)
 
OK, if that is going to bring realism :)

It seems to me that primarily large armies suffered from it - one Russian HQ can't cover entire front, and that is realistic. But, unlike Russian for example, Serbian army surely didn't suffer from inadequate control. ;) So I would say some minors, like Serbia, Bulgaria, maybe Belgium, could have HQ's.
You decide.
 
Maybe a headquarters could be "under construction" at the start of the game and have it due to be finished at the beginning of the war. Kind of like the naval ships that are in construction at the beginning of a game.
 
jova said:
But, unlike Russian for example, Serbian army surely didn't suffer from inadequate control. ;) So I would say some minors, like Serbia, Bulgaria, maybe Belgium, could have HQ's.
You decide.
As I understand it, the main benefit of an HQ is doubling a leader's control span. So any country with fewer than a dozen or so divisions really doesn't need an HQ...
 
Did we ever decide what the command limits for generals would be? I know we were thinking about expanding them. I think that we should have:
Major General 2
Lt. General 6
General 12
Field Marshal 20

Additionally I have done the Belgian OOB but if you would like to send me the one you have I will tweak the one we have to make it more realistic as I was working off of the TGW mod OOB and there is a major change in the number and location of Belgium provinces between HOI and HOI2.
 
KingMississippi said:
Did we ever decide what the command limits for generals would be? I know we were thinking about expanding them. I think that we should have:
Major General 2
Lt. General 6
General 12
Field Marshal 20

We have decided upon 1-4-18-36. :)
 
jova said:
What about efficiency bonus, greater chance for combat events and improved ESE?
Well, show me an army that demonstrated superior efficiency, skilled tactical performance and an efficient supply mechanism when invading enemy territory in August 1914, and we can discuss giving them an HQ. :)

(And before you say "Serbia", I'd argue that we've allowed for their better-than-expected performance in the opening campaigns by making their individual units tougher - guards instead of regular infantry. Giving them an HQ as well might be excessive, especially since Austria-Hungary only gets one)

To be honest, I originally argued for HQ units being a 1915 or even 1916 technology, since the generals of 1914 mostly had no clue how to manage and control armies as vast as those they went to war with. That's one reason why WW1 turned out the way it did. The other alternative would be to change the tech trees and unit models so that 1914-vintage HQs offer almost no combat benefits at all, and give these units to most countries. The Great Powers could perhaps then get one later-model HQ each to represent their central command.
 
StephenT said:
Well, show me an army that demonstrated superior efficiency, skilled tactical performance and an efficient supply mechanism when invading enemy territory in August 1914, and we can discuss giving them an HQ.

(And before you say "Serbia", I'd argue that we've allowed for their better-than-expected performance in the opening campaigns by making their individual units tougher - guards instead of regular infantry. Giving them an HQ as well might be excessive, especially since Austria-Hungary only gets one)

I agree with you. But my humble opinion is that reduced efficiency simply needs to be presented by lack of doctrines and/or other factors, maybe with less HQ bonuses, but not by lack of HQ's themselves.
If we allow Germany and Austro-Hungary to have 2 HQ's, they wouldn't have disadvantage on one front.
I understand your point on efficiency, but then you say that main role of HQ is to increase command limit, and then I see that FM will have command capacity of 36. Increasing command limits counters lack of HQ's. I don't see the point of this.
 
Last edited:
KingMississippi said:
Additionally I have done the Belgian OOB but if you would like to send me the one you have I will tweak the one we have to make it more realistic as I was working off of the TGW mod OOB and there is a major change in the number and location of Belgium provinces between HOI and HOI2.


okay, I'll try and post this weekend
 
Big news GERMANY has a complete naval and land OOB. Since we havent done the tech tree yet for aircraft thats as much as I can do for them at the moment. However there are probably alot of holes in the naval OOB as I need to tweak the cruisers I think. Right now i have a whole lot of BB and CL and just a few BC and CA (4?) The BC are probably correct, but there are probably more CA in the German Fleet.

navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 500 }
name = "Mittelmeerdivision"
location = 384 # Split
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 501 }
name = "SMS Goeben"
type = battlecruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 502 }
name = "SMS Breslau"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 503 }
name = "Ostasienschwadron"
location = 1140 # Tsingtao
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 504 }
name = "SMS Scharnhorst"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 505 }
name = "SMS Gneisenau"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 506 }
name = "SMS Nürnberg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 507 }
name = "SMS Leipzig"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 508 }
name = "SMS Emden"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 509 }
name = "S90"
type = destroyer
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 510 }
name = "SMS Dresden"
location = 2536 # at sea in the Caribbean
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 511 }
name = "SMS Dresden"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 512 }
name = "SMS Karlsruhe"
location = 2001 # at sea in the Atlantic
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 513 }
name = "SMS Karlsruhe"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 514 }
name = "SMS Königsberg"
location = 1140 # Dar es Salaam
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 515 }
name = "SMS Königsberg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 516 }
name = "Küstenverteidigungsgruppe Ostsee"
location = 296 # Rostock
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 517 }
name = "SMS Friedrich Karl"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 518 }
name = "SMS Augsburg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 519 }
name = "SMS Magdeburg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 520 }
name = "SMS Lübeck"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 521 }
name = "SMS Amazone"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 522 }
name = "SMS Undine"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 523 }
name = "SMS Thetis"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 524 }
name = "SMS Gazelle"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 525 }
name = "1. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 526 }
name = "2. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 527 }
name = "1. Aufklärungsschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 528 }
name = "SMS Seydlitz"
type = battlecruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 529 }
name = "SMS von der Tann"
type = battlecruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 530 }
name = "SMS Moltke"
type = battlecruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 531 }
name = "SMS Blücher"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 532 }
name = "2. Aufklärungsschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 533 }
name = "SMS Straßburg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 534 }
name = "SMS Stralsund"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 536 }
name = "SMS Kolberg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 650 }
name = "SMS Mainz"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 651 }
name = "SMS Köln"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 537 }
name = "4. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 538 }
name = "5. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 539 }
name = "3. Aufklärungsschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 540 }
name = "SMS München"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 541 }
name = "SMS Danzig"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 542 }
name = "SMS Stuttgart"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 543 }
name = "SMS Hela"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 544 }
name = "SMS Frauenlob"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 545 }
name = "4. Aufklärungsschwadron"
location = 90 # Kiel
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 546 }
name = "SMS Roon"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 547 }
name = "SMS Yorck"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 548 }
name = "SMS Prinz Alabert"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 549 }
name = "SMS Prinz Heinrich"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 550 }
name = "5. Aufklärungsschwadron"
location = 296 # Rostock
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 551 }
name = "SMS Hansa"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 552 }
name = "SMS Victoria Luise"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 553 }
name = "SMS Hertha"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 554 }
name = "SMS Vineta"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 555 }
name = "Küstenverteidigungsschwadron Weser"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 556 }
name = "SMS Berlin"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 557 }
name = "SMS Adriane"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 558 }
name = "SMS Niobe"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 559 }
name = "6. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 560 }
name = "Küstenverteidigungsschwadron Elbe"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 561 }
name = "SMS Nymphe"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 562 }
name = "SMS Medusa"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 563 }
name = "7. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 564 }
name = "Flottenflaggschiff"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 565 }
name = "SMS Friedrich der Große"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 566 }
name = "1. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 567 }
name = "SMS Nassau"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 568 }
name = "SMS Westfalen"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 569 }
name = "SMS Rheinland"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 570 }
name = "SMS Posen"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 571 }
name = "SMS Helgoland"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 572 }
name = "SMS Ostfriesland"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 573 }
name = "SMS Thüringen"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 574 }
name = "SMS Oldenburg"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 575 }
name = "2. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 576 }
name = "SMS Deutschland"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 577 }
name = "SMS Hessen"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 578 }
name = "SMS Hannover"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 579 }
name = "SMS Schlesien"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 580 }
name = "SMS Schleswig-Holstein"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 581 }
name = "SMS Braunschweig"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 582 }
name = "SMS Elsaß"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 583 }
name = "SMS Lothringen"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 584 }
name = "3. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 585 }
name = "SMS Kaiser"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 586 }
name = "SMS Kaiserin"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 587 }
name = "SMS König Albert"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 588 }
name = "SMS Prinzregent Luitpold"
type = battleship
model = 1
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 589 }
name = "4. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 590 }
name = "SMS Wittelsbach"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 591 }
name = "SMS Wettin"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 592 }
name = "SMS Mecklenburg"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 593 }
name = "SMS Schwaben"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 594 }
name = "SMS Zähringen"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 595 }
name = "5. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 80 # Wilhelmshafen
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 596 }
name = "SMS Worth"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 597 }
name = "SMS Kaiser Friedrich III"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 598 }
name = "SMS Kaiser Wilhelm II"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 599 }
name = "SMS Kaiser Barbarossa"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 600 }
name = "SMS Kaiser Wilhelm der Große"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 601 }
name = "SMS Kaiser Karl der Große"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 602 }
name = "SMS Brandenburg"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 603 }
name = "6. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 90 # Kiel
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 604 }
name = "SMS Beowulf"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 605 }
name = "SMS Odin"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 606 }
name = "SMS Ägir"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 607 }
name = "SMS Frithjof"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 608 }
name = "SMS Siegfried"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 609 }
name = "SMS Hagen"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 610 }
name = "SMS Heimdall"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 611 }
name = "SMS Hildebrand"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 612 }
name = "3. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 613 }
name = "8. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 614 }
name = "9. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 615 }
name = "7. Schlachtschwadron"
location = 90 # Kiel
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 616 }
name = "SMS Preußen"
type = battleship
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 617 }
name = "SMS Regensberg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 619 }
name = "SMS Stettin"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 620 }
name = "SMS Hamburg"
type = light_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 621 }
name = "SMS Fürst Bismarck"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 622 }
name = "SMS Freya"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 623 }
name = "SMS Kaiserin Augusta"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 624 }
name = "SMS Arkona"
type = light_cruiser
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 625 }
name = "10. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 626 }
name = "11. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 627 }
name = "12. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 628 }
name = "13. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 2
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 629 }
name = "14. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 630 }
name = "15. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 631 }
name = "16. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 632 }
name = "17. Flottille"
type = destroyer
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 633 }
name = "U-bootdivision"
location = 87 # Hamburg
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 634 }
name = "1. Flottille"
type = submarine
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 635 }
name = "2. Flottille"
type = submarine
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 636 }
name = "3. Flottille"
type = submarine
model = 0
}
}
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 637 }
name = "Transportdivision"
location = 87 # Hamburg
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 638 }
name = "1. Truppentransporterflottille"
type = transport
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 639 }
name = "2. Truppentransporterflottille"
type = transport
model = 0
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 640 }
name = "3. Truppentransporterflottille"
type = transport
model = 0
}
}
 
KingMississippi said:
navalunit = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 503 }
name = "Ostasienschwadron"
location = 1140 # Tsingtao
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 504 }
name = "SMS Scharnhorst"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1
}
division = {
id = { type = 22111 id = 505 }
name = "SMS Gneisenau"
type = heavy_cruiser
model = 1

Weren't Scharnhorst & Gneisenau battlecruisers?
 
As I said there are probably mistakes. I took the OOB from TGW which had Scharnhorst & Gneisenau as Cruisers not Battleships ... So I basically turned them into Heavy Cruisers because thats what I was doing. I didnt really examine it heavily to see what was wrong.
 
KingMississippi said:
As I said there are probably mistakes. I took the OOB from TGW which had Scharnhorst & Gneisenau as Cruisers not Battleships ... So I basically turned them into Heavy Cruisers because thats what I was doing. I didnt really examine it heavily to see what was wrong.
No, you've got it right when it comes to the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau - they were armoured cruisers launched in 1906 and both sunk on 8 December 1914. The German battlecruisers of WW2 were named after these original ships.

The only suggestion I'd make is to give them both experience = 30 or similar. These were crack ships, the elite of the German navy.

I had a look through the rest of your list and did spot a couple of things I think need changing:

The Friedrich Karl in the Küstenverteidigungsgruppe Ostsee (id 516) was an armoured cruiser (heavy_cruiser model=1), not a light cruiser.

The ships of the 6. Schlachtschwadron (id 603) - Beowulf, Odin, Ägir, Frithjof, Siegfried, Hagen, Heimdall and Hildebrand - should be ironclads (heavy_cruiser model=0) not battleships. These were coast defence ships designed back in the 1880s, and although classed as capital ships when launched, they were actually smaller than armoured cruisers.

Otherwise, looks like a good job. Believe me, I know what it's like doing huge naval OOBs... :)
 
Additionnally can anyone tell me what class to name each model of ship for Germany and the other major powers?
We have:
Torpedo Boats (DD-0)
Torpedo Boat Destroyers (DD-1)
Basic Destroyers (DD-2)
Improved Destroyers (DD-3)
Advanced Destroyers (DD-4)
Protected Cruiser (CL-0)
Basic Light (CL-1)
Imp. Light (CL-2)
Adv. Light (CL-3)
Ironclad (CA-0) Think Beowulf of the Germans
Armored (CA-1)
Early (CA-2)
Basic (CA-3)
Improved (CA-4)
Early BC (BC-0)
Basic BC (BC-1)
Imp BC (BC-2)
Adv BC (BC-3)
Predreadnought (BB-0)
Dreadnought (BB-1)
Super Dreadnought (BB-2)
Battleship (BB-3)
Imp. BB (BB-4)
Monitor (BB-5)

Also I have a nice wonderful picture for Armored Cruisers for Germany of the Scharnhorst at anchor.
scharnhorst6rk.png