OOBs

**Johan Elisson** · 02-03-2005 19:24

I'm on to it.

/Johan

**Halibutt** · 02-03-2005 22:59

Originally Posted by Kaiser Franz

It doesn't include that particular division, becuase the book i got it from only doesn't mention it or the other Polish division.....just as a question..i'm doing work for the Vicky 1919 mod and do you have the Polish OOB for 1919, in Divisions if possible...we've had trouble trying to find the OOB's for the Red army and Poland...

Strange. As a matter of fact the Żeligowski's 4th Division didn't participate in much fighting in Crimea and as a matter of fact the most intense struggles it saw after it was withdrawn to Romania and then to Poland, but the Czuma's 5th Division was quite an important unit there - and one of the biggest.
Cheers

**Zuckergußgebäck** · 21-03-2005 11:10

Johan E., how´s it going?

**Johan Elisson** · 21-03-2005 12:08

Got much to do, so it will take a while, but it shall be done.

/Johan

**VPeric** · 08-04-2005 15:48

Well, I'm not sure how useful this can be, or if you've seen it already, but I figure it can't do any harm. Serbian OOB for 1914. I'm really not informed much in the matter myself, but I guess it's abour right:

http://www.vojska.net/ww1/serbia/oob/1914.asp

**Johan Elisson** · 08-04-2005 17:20

Yup, have it and used it for TGW, but as you say, it doesn't hurt to read it through again.

Back to OOBs, how are we handling countries with conscription like Sweden, and reserve divisions with active cadres only? It didn't really make any sense to lower the strenght of these units to 10 or similar in TGW as you could reinforce them with just one click, but with the new system used in HoI 2 and thus in 1914, it makes sense, as units gain strenght slowly over time, and only when the reinforce slider is set to consume IC. Thus, my question to Allenby and others, should we consider weakening most countries' divisions to cadre strenght only, with exceptions for the divisions in countries that could mobilize very quickly or had a professional army? For example, Germany would probably have high-strenght infantry divisions at the start of the January scenario, medium strenght (or cadre strenght) reserve divisions, and minimal strenght Landwehr and Ersatz units.

/Johan

**StephenT** · 08-04-2005 20:02

The trouble is that in real life, reinforcing those divisions to full strength would mean calling up millions of men from their peacetime jobs and completely wrecking your civilian economy. It shouldn't be possible just be clicking on a slider...

Rather than having lots of 10% strength divisions already on the map at the start of the game, I suggest either:

1. Have mobilisation events as in TGW.
2. Have the reserve divisions locked in place, and change the mobilisation events to unlock them.

(Example from the 1936 scenario)
division = {
id = { type = 14800 id = 12 }
name = "Phillippine Division"
type = infantry
locked = yes }
}

Event command:
type = unlock_division which = 14800 value = 12

One thing I'm not sure of is if locked divisions can receive reinforcements.

**Johan Elisson** · 08-04-2005 22:20

Originally Posted by StephenT

The trouble is that in real life, reinforcing those divisions to full strength would mean calling up millions of men from their peacetime jobs and completely wrecking your civilian economy. It shouldn't be possible just be clicking on a slider...

Well, having them att 100 strenght at the start would do the same thing then, but it doesn't.

Originally Posted by StephenT

Rather than having lots of 10% strength divisions already on the map at the start of the game, I suggest either:

1. Have mobilisation events as in TGW.

This was done in TGW, yes, but it didn't leave a trace on the economy either.

Originally Posted by StephenT

2. Have the reserve divisions locked in place, and change the mobilisation events to unlock them.

(Example from the 1936 scenario)
division = {
id = { type = 14800 id = 12 }
name = "Phillippine Division"
type = infantry
locked = yes }
}

Event command:
type = unlock_division which = 14800 value = 12

One thing I'm not sure of is if locked divisions can receive reinforcements.

I don't like it. What if a German player decides to declare war on France earlier? He won't be able to use his reserve force, as it is locked due to the fact that these divisions are waiting for a mobilization call from an event. Even having them unlocked by a trigger atwar = yes doesn't really make sense, as you usually mobilize your divisions before going to war.

This makes me believe that low strenght is the best choise. It reflects reality fairly well, or at least better than any other alternative. And I'm talking about divisions that existed in the line-up of the January scenario in TGW too (but with 100 strenght), not about the divisions created by the mobilization events.

/Johan

**StephenT** · 08-04-2005 23:02

Originally Posted by Johan Elisson

I don't like it. What if a German player decides to declare war on France earlier? He won't be able to use his reserve force, as it is locked due to the fact that these divisions are waiting for a mobilization call from an event. Even having them unlocked by a trigger atwar = yes doesn't really make sense, as you usually mobilize your divisions before going to war.

It doesn't seem like such a big problem to me. "Mobilisation means war" as the Germans were so fond of saying. How many countries in 1914 would be able to call up all their reservists and not go to war within days? Having a mobilisation event triggered by declaring war instead of vice-versa only seems like a minor deviation from reality.

This makes me believe that low strength is the best choise. It reflects reality fairly well, or at least better than any other alternative. And I'm talking about divisions that existed in the line-up of the January scenario in TGW too (but with 100 strenght), not about the divisions created by the mobilization events.

If that's all you mean then I don't have a problem with it - I thought you were talking about the mobilisation event divisions as well. Although I still think cadre divisions should be locked in place when at peace: the whole point was that they were regional depots for the training and equipping of reservists.

But how will you get those 10% divisions to full strength when the country goes to war?

**Johan Elisson** · 08-04-2005 23:27

Originally Posted by StephenT

It doesn't seem like such a big problem to me. "Mobilisation means war" as the Germans were so fond of saying. How many countries in 1914 would be able to call up all their reservists and not go to war within days? Having a mobilisation event triggered by declaring war instead of vice-versa only seems like a minor deviation from reality.

My intention wasn't to only apply this to Germany, it was merely an example. We might as well talk about Sweden, which had only cadres formed but a clear definition of how a mobilized army would be organized, thus the best would be to represent the mobilized army, but at cadre strenght. This also means that Sweden, at any time, should be able to partially, or fully, mobilize its forces to prepare for any threat that might show up, as we did during the war, and during WWII, also. Following the chain, cadre army (at peace) => partially mobilize (at peace) => wartime army (at peace), can't be done properly IMHO in any other way than by having low strenght units, that can be strenghtened/mobilized by pushing the reinforcement slider farther to the right. It can't be done by event.

Originally Posted by StephenT

If that's all you mean then I don't have a problem with it - I thought you were talking about the mobilisation event divisions as well. Although I still think cadre divisions should be locked in place when at peace: the whole point was that they were regional depots for the training and equipping of reservists.

I might have expressed myself bad, English isn't my mother tounge after all.

But the above applies here as well. Sweden was at peace during the whole time, but still concentrated its forces to critical areas countering the movement of troops and events in the world around them. Can't be done if they are locked. And the same should be possible for any country. Germany should be able to move its reserve divisions into position before the war starts.

Originally Posted by StephenT

But how will you get those 10% divisions to full strength when the country goes to war?

Adjust reinforcment slider to the right.

I have to point out that this really isn't a big issue, but I'd be glad if we agreed over something so I don't have to go back and change OOB strenghts now and then depending on our mood.

/Johan

**Allenby** · 09-04-2005 23:40

I see no problem with the mobilisation events, personally. Although it can be argued that they are strictly unrealistic because they occur after the declaration of war, I believe that they can be justified. There is nothing necessarily special about when they become available to the player - after all, it can simply be explained that the divisions being made accessible on the outbreak of war are simply the ones that were actually mobilised before it broke out.

As for 10% strength units and the use of sliders in reinforcing them - is it not the case that we will be confronted by the awkward task of specifying to the AI that it should not reinforce its units during tranquil peacetime? It would be rather irritating to find your enemies with fully mobilised forces by May or June...

**Johan Elisson** · 10-04-2005 13:20

Allenby, as said earlier, I'm not talking about the mobilization events, that are fine IMO, I'm talking about divisions present in the OOBs in TGW at the start of the January 1914 scenario, for example the Swedish divisions and German reserve divisions. Thus I see no problem with facing full strenght forces in May or June, as they were full strenght in January in TGW... There is also an ai command that limits the % of total IC used to reinforce. Set to 0 or a very low number in the peacetime AI file, increase in the war-time AI file.

/Johan

**ptan54** · 10-04-2005 17:12

Except reinforcement takes a gigantic amount of IC and takes ages - for divisions to be fully reinforced the bar will need to be set to the right ages before August 1914.

**Oksel** · 11-05-2005 21:44

Organisation of army in 1914

Prva armija (1st army) divizija = division general Petar Bojovic

Drinska divizija
Dunavska divizija
Sumadijska divizija
Timocka divizija
Konjicka divizija (Cavalry)

Druga Armija (2nd army) general Stepa Stepanovic

Moravska divizija
Konjicka divizija (Cavalry)
Kombinovana divizija

Treca armija (3rd army) general Pavle Jurisic-Sturm

Krajinski odred
Vlasinski odred
Obrenovacki odred
Krivopalanacki odred
Bregalnicka divizija

Uzicka vojska (Army of Uzice or 4th army) general Milos Bozanovic

Limski odred

This could be used in unitnames file.

**Oksel** · 11-05-2005 21:45

Organisation of army in 1914

Sandzacki odred general Luka Gojnic
Hercegovacki odred general Janko Vukotic
Lovcenski odred general Mitar Martinovic
Starosrbijanski odred general Radomir Vesovic

In 1915 only Sandzacka vojska

**Oksel** · 11-05-2005 21:45

Organisation of army in 1915

1st, 2nd and 3rd army the same but a new division is made

Odbrana Beograda (Defenders of Belgrade) general Mihailo Zivkovic

but Zivojin Misic is the commander of 1st army and the 3rd army has

additional divisions Prizrenski, Podrinski and Ohridski odred.

In 1916 already on Thessaloniki front

1st army general Misic

Moravska divizija
Drinska divizija
Dunavska divizija

2nd army Stepanovic

Sumadijska divizija
Timocka divizija
Vardarska divizija

In 1918 one more division made from volunteers from other continents

Jugoslovenska divizija

**Oksel** · 18-05-2005 10:49

Thank you for correcting me jova.

**Kaiser Franz** · 27-05-2005 11:43

ok, i've been doing a lot of research into the Mexican revoltuion and i have found a lot about the armies, nothing in stone, but i have a few names and some strengths etc...i will put each army and Division with its commander:

El Ejército Libertador del Sur
Division: División del Zapatistas
Commander: Emiliano Zapata

Ejército del norte
Division: División del norte
Commander: Pancho Villa

El Ejército Constitucionalista
Division: División Constitucionalista
Commander: Venustiano Carranza

Ejército del noreste
Division: División del noreste
Commander: Pablo González

Ejército del noroeste
Division: División del noroeste
Commander: Alvaro Obregon

**zytrexx** · 28-05-2005 02:51

Originally Posted by StephenT

division = {
id = { type = 14800 id = 12 }
name = "Phillippine Division"
type = infantry
locked = yes }
}

Actually the forces deployed by the Americans in colonial Philippines were:
Insular Constabulary - local police force
Philippine Scouts - forerunner of the modern Philippine Armed Forces
Offshore Patrol - Subic Bay, Manila Bay, and Sangley Point

Major Garrison:
Clark Field
Fort Stotsenberg
Philippine Military Academy - patterned after West Point
Sangley Point

**Kaiser Franz** · 25-06-2005 17:22

German colonial troops, mainly the OOB's alright, but in the Germans Chinese garrison, it should be:
Tsingtau Garrison = Corps name
III. Seebatallion = unit name
attachment = heavy artillery

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