Tegetthoff said:
If you have any online sources please link to'em. I have a fair bit of economic history and some ship stuff.
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If you have any online sources please link to'em. I have a fair bit of economic history and some ship stuff.
TheLand said:
Most of what I research was off wikipedia.
The first big discussion was actually wether there was a 1st and 2nd industrial revolution and when the 2nd one took place. Once this is accepted, one can expand into finding out that that the main industries created by the 2nd industrial revolution were steel, chemical, electrical, automotive/combustion and a transportation revolution.
Beyond that, really finding out what happend in 1897 as opposed to 1899 is very hard if not impossible.
When I added the "calculation aids" tech to the research tree I was able to find out about advances in mechanical adding machines sometime between 1880 and 1910, slide rules between 1890 and 1910. When I checked on the "history of mathematics" I found that by 1890 they were already developing things in mathematics which I (with a master´s degree and doctorate in engineering) could no longer really understand - and have never needed in 20 years of professional life.
Well, I am rambling a bit, so please feel free to inhance on what I did, I will try to get it out in a consistent fashion.
Cheers
T.
Let us find an invention for each year, which could be researched to add more flavour.
v.Manstein said:
I'm more in favour of trying to find genuine cross-economy improvements than fitting a list of inventions to "1900 Heavy Industry" and "1902 Heavy Industry".
NB this will affect the IC growth events and AI settings. Our tech model should, all things taken into consideration, give a developed nation a 1% to 2% boost to IC each year (if you believe that IC is related to national output) quite aside from the effects of any new factories being built.
This could come through increased Industrial Efficiency, or through increased Supply Efficiency, or other changes.
It might just clutter the already very cluttered tree.v.Manstein said:
Perhaps the 2nd industrial revolution is where production focus shifts from simple, manpower-heavy production to refined knowhow-heavy production?Tegetthoff said:
@Zuckergussgebäck: I think you got me wrong. I meant that we find one RL-invention which could deal as name for the anual industry-tech. Just as an example: 1913: Henry Ford invents the assembly line, so we call the 1913 industry tech: Assembly line.
Technically that should be "Henry Ford copies existing US armoury practice, which itself was blagged from revolutionary France" so the 1913 tech should be called 'stealing someone else's ideas and taking the credit"v.Manstein said:
Relevantly I agree more with Tegetthoff, the flavour is in the component names not the tech name. As the components are going to have to be named anyway so it's no extra work, but this avoids trying to find a 'representative' idea for each year, which is very subjective and varied nation to nation.
Zuckergußgebäck said:
Sometimes the 2nd industrial revolution is placed in the 1970s, with a description as given by you above. Sometimes this shift is also called 3rd or whatever industrial revolution.
Many historians place a "2nd industrial revolution" in the 1850 to 1910 timespan. While the first industrial revolution involved steam power, coal, iron, mechanical weaving and took place in Englang with France a number 2, the 2nd industrial revolution involved steel, chemical industry, electrical industry, the internal combustion engine and was lead by Germany and the USA (with all other European nations moving along, of course).
This is the definition I have used here, if you Google "Industrial Revolution" you will find the supporting documents.
Search Google for "Kondratiev waves" (or "Kondratjew-Zyklen" in German) and you'll find good ideas.
v.Manstein said:
Nice stuff! I´ll get my current version out for everbody to play with and then we can expand on that - especially if we create more space for techs by getting rid of some airplane stuff.
Industry tech tree
Ok, I have posted a download version of the new tech tree at:
*** Link disabled since it is in the 080412 dev version ****
Please note the following:
This version is based on the latest dev version (080404) and the naval mod.
I have included the naval mod in this download but (hopefully) only the parts that are compatible with both HOI2 and DD. This means that the unit icons are missing. I included the models.csv, if this is not HOI2 compatible, please be carefull.
The two had to be combined because they affect the tech_names.csv and the .inc files.
THIS DOWNLOAD COMBINES THE NAVAL MOD AND THE TECH TREE FOR THE 1897 SCENARIO ONLY. THIS MEANS PLAYING 1914 OR 1911 SCNEARIOS WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE!
What has not been done for the tech tree:
* No tech components for the "new techs" (or rather there are still the old one in there)
* The tech pics have not been re-arranged, so they do not fit at all or will be missing
* The new techs have only been included in the 1897.inc files so all othe scenarios will produce strange results
Detailed change log:
Please experiment and comment!
Ok, I have posted a download version of the new tech tree at:
*** Link disabled since it is in the 080412 dev version ****
Please note the following:
This version is based on the latest dev version (080404) and the naval mod.
I have included the naval mod in this download but (hopefully) only the parts that are compatible with both HOI2 and DD. This means that the unit icons are missing. I included the models.csv, if this is not HOI2 compatible, please be carefull.
The two had to be combined because they affect the tech_names.csv and the .inc files.
THIS DOWNLOAD COMBINES THE NAVAL MOD AND THE TECH TREE FOR THE 1897 SCENARIO ONLY. THIS MEANS PLAYING 1914 OR 1911 SCNEARIOS WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE!
What has not been done for the tech tree:
* No tech components for the "new techs" (or rather there are still the old one in there)
* The tech pics have not been re-arranged, so they do not fit at all or will be missing
* The new techs have only been included in the 1897.inc files so all othe scenarios will produce strange results
Detailed change log:
Code:
tech_names.csv:
Used tech_names.csv from naval mod.
Changed "Automotive Mechanics" to "Mechanics"
Changed "Electronics" to "ElectricS"
Deleted all industry tech names (apps and cmp) from line 1287 to 1638
Copied all new industry tech names (apps and cmp) from line 1287 to 1848
Deleted all industry short names from new line 2736 to new 2785
Copied all new industry short names from line 2736 to 2815
industry_tech.txt:
used Tegetthoff mod
techtree_industry.bmp:
used Tegetthoff mod (has to be improved)
1897 .inc files:
Took the 9 new .inc files from the lates dev version (A-H, BUL, GRE, JAP, Montenegro, ROM, RUS, SER, SWI)
Established that my A-H file is more recent (includes correct naval OOB)
Installed Bulgaria Naval and Industry Techs (naval OOB ok)
Installed Greece naval OOB, Naval Techs, Industry Techs
Installed Japan naval OOB, Naval and Industry Techs
For Montenegro, only industry techs
Installed Romania naval and instustry techs (naval OOB ok)
Installed Russia naval OOB, naval and insutry techs
For Serbia and Switzerland (landlocked) only industry techs
Established that naval mod does not include my 1897 China naval OOB
Established that I have TheLands latest British Naval OOB
Established that I have TheLands latest Spanish Naval OOB
Established that with 99% probability I have TheLands latest US naval OOB
Established that with 99% probability I have TheLands latest German naval OOB
Established that with 99% probability I have TheLands latest France naval OOB
Established that with 99% probability I have TheLands latest Spain naval OOB
Found that the Greek navy id error I made is still in the naval mod and corrected it.
Installed all .inc files into test directory and tested them
Took out my Dominican Republic spies for HOI2 compatibility
Edited out the industrial growth events and the industrial growth reset events for U11, ENG, FRA, GER, ITA, RUS, USA
Edited out the industrial efficiency reductions and offmap supplies for U11, ENG, FRA, GER, ITA, RUS, USA
Copied in the naval mod unit files
Corrected an error in the naval mod tech_names.csvPlease experiment and comment!
Last edited:
The only problem are some lines in industry_tech.txt which refers to "nuclear submarine". This is not HOI2 compatible, but I suppose that we aren't really using that model either.
The misc.txt is also not HOI2 compatible (why did you include it in the first place?)
The misc.txt is also not HOI2 compatible (why did you include it in the first place?)
Zuckergußgebäck said:
Because it is in the naval mod ....... nothing to do with industrial tech.
Zuckergußgebäck said:
Yes, the shipbuilding techs reduce build time for all models, including nuclear sub. But this can really be deleted....
New industry tech tree
OK guys, here is the first update (10 MB download):
*** link disabled because it is in the 080412 dev version ***
nuclear_submarine commented out
ALL available tech pics sorted
Delete all tech pics starting from 5000 to 5999. Install the new ones.
Missing:
Improved Horse Breeding
Modern Railways
Some shipubilding and construction techs are used several times
Only thing missing now is tech component names.
One more change:
Changes all Austrian "Infanterietuppen" to "Infanterietruppen" for 1897 scen.
OK guys, here is the first update (10 MB download):
*** link disabled because it is in the 080412 dev version ***
nuclear_submarine commented out
ALL available tech pics sorted
Delete all tech pics starting from 5000 to 5999. Install the new ones.
Missing:
Improved Horse Breeding
Modern Railways
Some shipubilding and construction techs are used several times
Only thing missing now is tech component names.
One more change:
Changes all Austrian "Infanterietuppen" to "Infanterietruppen" for 1897 scen.
Last edited:
So, I have now combined the 080404 version with the naval mod and the new industry tech tree. All inc files now contain the naval OOB, the naval techs and the industry techs for 1914, too.
Cannot post it today, but here is the changelog:
Cannot post it today, but here is the changelog:
Code:
Removed the IC reduction for Quing China
Put in the new tech tree template from Kriss_Nor
1914 .inc files:
Took the three new .inc files from the 080404 version (Japan, Russia, Switzerland)
Forget Switzerland because it is landlocked
Transferred russian naval units and naval techs from naval mod
DId the same for Japan
Verified the following naval techs are already in my structure
austria-hungary, britishempire, bulgaria, ecuador, france, germany, greece, ottoman, rumania, usa
newly transferred the following:
Chile, Italy, Spain
Verfied that my china naval OOB is not in the naval mod.
NOW I HAVE A COMBINATION OF 080404 AND NAVAL MOD ON MY DISK
Put in germany industry techs as a maximum (checked and debugged status)
Copied this over to Britain and slightly reduced it
Copied this over to USA
Copied this over to France and reduced it (France is Dec. 1913 standard)
Copied this to Belgium, Luxemburg and Netherlands
Copied this over to A-H and reduced it
Copied this to Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland
Copied this over to Italy and reduced it
Copied this over to Japan and Norway
Copied this over to Russia and reduced it
Copied this to Argentina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Greece, Mexico, Montenegro, Ottoman, Portugal, Rumania,
Serbia, Spain, Venezuela
Copied this to Albania and reduced it brutally
Copied this to Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba. DomRep, Ecuador, Elsalvador, Guatemala,
Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Revolutionary Mexico, Uruguay
Copied this over to Persia and reduced it some more
Copied this over to Siam, China, Fengtien, Sinkiang
Copied this over to Abysinnia and reduced it strongly
Copied this over to Afghanistan, Asir, Hejaz, Liberia, Mongolia, Nepal, Oman, Tibet, Yemen
Tribal (5010) for Darfur, Jebelshammar, Nejd, SanusiaIndustry tech tree plus other things
Gentlemen, here is the latest (and as far as I am concernced last) version of the industry tech mod:
*** link disabled because it is in the 080412 dev version ***
It contains:
* the industry tech tree with the new graphical design by Kriss_Nor
* fairly suitable tech pictures, reordered and rearranged (delete all tech files in the 5000 range for ideal results)
* 1897 and 1914 .inc files for all countries that combine the 080404 dev version status with the naval mod OOBs and techs and the proper industry techs
* the naval tech tree, a combined tech_names and models.csv
It does not contain:
* the units icons of the naval tree that are DD/HOI2 sensitive
* the misc.txt of the naval tree, that is also DD/HOI2 sensitive
* I have not touched the 1911 scenario. It is a combination of 1914 OObs and 1897 techs, so it would be easy to create the files if somebody wants to do the work.
Gentlemen, here is the latest (and as far as I am concernced last) version of the industry tech mod:
*** link disabled because it is in the 080412 dev version ***
It contains:
* the industry tech tree with the new graphical design by Kriss_Nor
* fairly suitable tech pictures, reordered and rearranged (delete all tech files in the 5000 range for ideal results)
* 1897 and 1914 .inc files for all countries that combine the 080404 dev version status with the naval mod OOBs and techs and the proper industry techs
* the naval tech tree, a combined tech_names and models.csv
It does not contain:
* the units icons of the naval tree that are DD/HOI2 sensitive
* the misc.txt of the naval tree, that is also DD/HOI2 sensitive
* I have not touched the 1911 scenario. It is a combination of 1914 OObs and 1897 techs, so it would be easy to create the files if somebody wants to do the work.
Last edited:
Will this change break the 1911 scenario, or will it just be messed up a bit? Can't wait to try out the new techs in the 1897 scenario. Finally, something to do between 1900 and 1914 .
Must stop playing...must finish parser....
.Must stop playing...must finish parser....