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  1. #781
    Den ökända hästen från Troja Zuckergußgebäck's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be better to have the techs trigger random events? It'd make things a lot less deterministic and make the effects of the tech less of a one-time bonus.

  2. #782
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuckergußgebäck
    Wouldn't it be better to have the techs trigger random events? It'd make things a lot less deterministic and make the effects of the tech less of a one-time bonus.
    Good idea, and they do not have to be random. We can check for a tech having been researched by a country and then trigger the country specific event. Of course this means a lot of events, at least one per tech for each major ...

    Sorry, just reread your message .... yes, peristent random events being triggered by tech advances ... good idea.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  3. #783
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    0.5 Industrial Tech Tree proposal

    Hi guys,

    Can somebody give me instructions how to post a screenshot in a mail so I can show you the new industrial tech tree?

    Thanks

    T.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  4. #784
    Den ökända hästen från Troja Zuckergußgebäck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff
    Hi guys,

    Can somebody give me instructions how to post a screenshot in a mail so I can show you the new industrial tech tree?

    Thanks

    T.
    Upload it here

  5. #785
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2...echtreexv8.png

    .... is there no better way? how do the people with AARs do it?
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  6. #786
    Den ökända hästen från Troja Zuckergußgebäck's Avatar
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    They use Photobucket, but it requires a registration.

    And could you upload it in a bigger format, I cannot read it at present.

  7. #787
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    How do people post pictures in their AARs and posts? Are the all linked to Imageshack?
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  8. #788
    Den ökända hästen från Troja Zuckergußgebäck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff
    How do people post pictures in their AARs and posts? Are the all linked to Imageshack?
    Yes, or any other image uploading site.

    If you want it to show in the post, put [IMG] [/IMG] tags around the URL.

  9. #789
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Well, that´s better, isn´t it. Thanks Zucker!

    Ok, what have I done:

    If you are familar with CORE, you will see where I got my ideas from

    Instead of the 20 manufacturing techs there are now:

    3 basic techs that set the technological level of a country
    e.g.:
    Mahdiya has Pre-Industrial society and will be able to research almost nothing
    Quing China has 1st Industrial revolution, which slows it down a lot
    All majors except Russia (who will research it) have 2nd Industrial Revolution

    5 industry techs that give additional boni and can be used to set the differences between nations in 1897 (all of them can be researched)

    and then there are 36 yearly manufacturing techs that give you industrial efficiency, construction boni etc. Shipbuilding will shorten build time for ships, armaments industries for divisions.

    All the other are the same except:

    I have inserted on more research tech and one agriculture tech (Improved horse breeding which gives cavalry advantages)
    I have deleted two oil techs since there was little (or no?) synthetical oil production before 1914.

    Most techs are harder to research, so research teams should be busy and differences between nations with good tech teams and with bad tech teams should emerge.

    Already in 1897 there should be significant differences between nations.

    With this set-up, it will be necessary (or possible) to remove the industrial growth events. Nations are between 75% and 90% industrial efficiency in 1897 and will grow to about 150% by 1920.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

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  11. #791
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuckergußgebäck
    If we can give techs more inspiring names than "00 heavy industry", I'm game.
    Well, just imagine all the inspiring tech component names we have to think of ....

    Having played CORE, I am actually quite happy with the date-related industries.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff
    Well, just imagine all the inspiring tech component names we have to think of ....

    Having played CORE, I am actually quite happy with the date-related industries.
    I suggest early, advanced etcetera instead. Sounds a little bit more inspiring.

  13. #793
    Generalfeldmarschall v.Manstein's Avatar
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    Not easy to find 20 different level-words

    What about expanding the industrial techs to a date past 1920 by giving 1 tech for 2 years?

    Furthermore, I would move Intelligence and Finance to an administrative Techtree (maybe research too).

    But in general, your idea is fine and much better than anually events increasing the IC.
    "This is not a peace. It is an armistice for 20 years." ~ French Marshall Ferdinand Foch after signing the Treaty of Versailles

  14. #794
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v.Manstein
    Not easy to find 20 different level-words

    What about expanding the industrial techs to a date past 1920 by giving 1 tech for 2 years?

    Furthermore, I would move Intelligence and Finance to an administrative Techtree (maybe research too).

    But in general, your idea is fine and much better than anually events increasing the IC.
    Everything we move off this tree will make room for expanding it beyond 1920.

    Regarding Tech IDs, I have left enough space to expand further.

    Manstein - when will we have the next dev version, especially containing the naval mod. I am two dev versions behind and have to port the industrial tree to the latest version.

    It affects:
    * tech-names (collides with naval tree there)
    * .inc files (existing techs)

    I have to debug now, before I really publish it.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  15. #795
    Generalfeldmarschall v.Manstein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff
    Everything we move off this tree will make room for expanding it beyond 1920.
    Okay, then let us try to expan it it least to 1924 and I'll post a little suggestion for an administrative techtree as soon as possible.


    Concerning your work: What about the following offer

    I mail you everything I have concerning the naval techtree.

    You take the latest dev-version and work on the revision of all techtrees (if neccessary) and I won't accept any changes to files you are working on until you finished?

    I know it's much work, but you'll have time since I am working on some AI-things.
    "This is not a peace. It is an armistice for 20 years." ~ French Marshall Ferdinand Foch after signing the Treaty of Versailles

  16. #796
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v.Manstein
    What about the following offer: I mail you everything I have concerning the naval techtree.

    You take the latest dev-version and work on the revision of all techtrees (if neccessary) and I won't accept any changes to files you are working on until you finished?

    I know it's much work, but you'll have time since I am working on some AI-things.
    Ok, done. Send it to my e-mail, I´ll see what I can do.

    The big thing that I cannot do quickly is fix the .inc files for the 1914 scenario. I rushed through the 1897 today but I just have to see where the nations should be in 1914.....
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  17. #797
    Generalfeldmarschall v.Manstein's Avatar
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    I lost your mail-adress, but you can get all files here.

    If possible, please check that your changes are HoI2-compatible and take care of changes maybe made with the latest dev! (The map was changed between russia and japan f.e.)
    "This is not a peace. It is an armistice for 20 years." ~ French Marshall Ferdinand Foch after signing the Treaty of Versailles

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Tegetthoff
    If you are familar with CORE, you will see where I got my ideas from

    Instead of the 20 manufacturing techs there are now:

    3 basic techs that set the technological level of a country
    e.g.:
    Mahdiya has Pre-Industrial society and will be able to research almost nothing
    Quing China has 1st Industrial revolution, which slows it down a lot
    All majors except Russia (who will research it) have 2nd Industrial Revolution

    5 industry techs that give additional boni and can be used to set the differences between nations in 1897 (all of them can be researched)

    and then there are 36 yearly manufacturing techs that give you industrial efficiency, construction boni etc. Shipbuilding will shorten build time for ships, armaments industries for divisions.
    I like what you've done in terms of 'society levels' and, indeed, the different families of techs.

    However, I'm quite opposed to having a mass of flavourless techs there just to fill up the space. To me one of the good things about HOI tech research (opposed to the system in say EU) is that the techs are interesting, have interesting components, add flavour, and generally make research choices fun. They can also reflect the reality of tech development to some degree if well set-up.... The way CORE approaches things loses that, and with it a lot of flavour.

    I am quite willing to research the evolution of industry from 1897-1924 and revise the techtree towards a realistic basis - however this might take me a little while, and I want to finish and balance the naval stuff first.

    I can contribute towards social techs as well...

  19. #799
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by v.Manstein
    I lost your mail-adress, but you can get all files here.

    If possible, please check that your changes are HoI2-compatible and take care of changes maybe made with the latest dev! (The map was changed between russia and japan f.e.)
    I assume this means that I should load the latest dev version and installl "naval" over it?

    Sorry, Manstein, there is a problem here:
    Naval has .inc files from March 24, 2008 (with the proper naval OOBs) and the latest dev version has changes to .inc files, too, with whatever changes.
    Last edited by Tegetthoff; 05-04-2008 at 21:20.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

  20. #800
    General Tegetthoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLand
    I like what you've done in terms of 'society levels' and, indeed, the different families of techs.

    However, I'm quite opposed to having a mass of flavourless techs there just to fill up the space. To me one of the good things about HOI tech research (opposed to the system in say EU) is that the techs are interesting, have interesting components, add flavour, and generally make research choices fun. They can also reflect the reality of tech development to some degree if well set-up.... The way CORE approaches things loses that, and with it a lot of flavour.

    I am quite willing to research the evolution of industry from 1897-1924 and revise the techtree towards a realistic basis - however this might take me a little while, and I want to finish and balance the naval stuff first.

    I can contribute towards social techs as well...
    I am quite happy if somebody works over my changes and adds flavour. As mentioned above, the main problem at the moment is not tech names but tech component names.

    With the current state of my modding, the tech components retain the names they were originally numbered for, so are totally unrelated to what is being researched. So adding flavour would first mean improving the component names and then improving the tech names.

    As you work on this, you will see that the flavour is actually in the components and not in the techs. There really is a level of "1899 sbhipbuilding" and giving it the right component names will make this tech come alive.
    "Muss Sieg von Lissa werden!" (Admiral Tegetthoff´s signal before the battle of Lissa - "Must become victory of Lissa" - since the battle started faster than he thought, all that was hoisted was the signal "MUSS")

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