Units

[moonlapse]

a web site with some nice pictures that could come in handy:

http://www.gallipoli1915.org/warillustrated.ing.htm



and some from me.
ottoman milita.
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2908/miltriaa0qm.png



inf
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3231/ta6315gh.png


cav
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6...ivtur515lx.jpg



it's not much but i hope they help you a bit.


hey,just found this link,take a look.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/troops2.htm

[matheus1977]

www.grandesguerras.com.br

Brazilian site, with translation, very very good

[Allenby]

Thank you - some of those links and pictures ought to be most useful.

[fanta_a]

If I'm allowed I would like to see the norwegian navy in it full glory in this mod. I have made some of the pictures(Models) and are trying to put the ships into classes. I I make the files, would you think about putting them in?

And I have pictures of norwegian soldiers.

[Allenby]

If I'm allowed I would like to see the norwegian navy in it full glory in this mod. I have made some of the pictures(Models) and are trying to put the ships into classes. I I make the files, would you think about putting them in?

And I have pictures of norwegian soldiers.

Pictues of Norwegian ships and soldiers shall be most welcome.

[StephenT]

If I'm allowed I would like to see the norwegian navy in it full glory in this mod. I have made some of the pictures(Models) and are trying to put the ships into classes. I I make the files, would you think about putting them in?

This is the Norwegian navy in the game:

name = "Norge" type = heavy_cruiser model = 1
name = "Eidsvold" type = heavy_cruiser model = 1
name = "Harald Haarfagre" type = heavy_cruiser model = 1
name = "Tordenskjold" type = heavy_cruiser model = 1
name = "Viking" type = light_cruiser model = 0
name = "1:a Jagarflottiljen" type = destroyer model = 0
name = "2:a Jagarflottiljen" type = destroyer model = 0
name = "3:e Jagarflottiljen" type = destroyer model = 0

As you see, there are three ship models represented: heavy_cruiser model/1, light_cruiser model/0 and destroyer model/0. So, we'd need three pictures:

ill_div_NOR_24_1.bmp for Norge, Eidsvold, Harald Haarfagre and Tordenskjold.

ill_div_NOR_23_0.bmp for Viking.

ill_div_NOR_26_0.bmp for the torpedo boat flotillas

If you have the photos, please post them in the Units thread.

[fanta_a]

I do have them, But I don't know how to post images, can I send them to someone?
And the ships "Harald Haarfagre/Tordenskjold" and "Norge/Eidsvold" is two different classes of ships. (The Tordenskjold Class is called a pre dread costal battleship, And the "Norge" class is a smaller vessel. You can call it a cruiser)

As far as I know the real inventory was in 1914 (Minus costal only ships)

4 A Class Submarines
35 (Different models) Torpedo boats
2 Eidsvold Class Armoured Ships
2 Tordeskjold Class Costal Battleships
4 Skorpionen Class Monitors (Old and was decommisioned after ww1)
1 Valkyrjen TorpedoDivision Ship
3 Gor Class Gun Boats
5 Vale Class Minelayers/Rebuilt Gunboats

I have pictures of them all exept the monitors (I do have drawings of them)
And if it is of any use I do have pictures of ships built during the war or right after.
The Destroyer "Garm" Built 6/7 1914
Torpedo Boat "Trygg" 1919
Submarine "B1" of the B Class(American "Holland" class) 1922

[Shadow Knight]

I do have them, But I don't know how to post images, can I send them to someone?

To post and image here first you need to upload them somewhere (for instance I use photobucket.com). I recommend saving the file as a .png as it retains all the quality but keeps it smaller in file size (photobucket has a size limit and if you go over that it resizes an image). Then just upload it and after it finishes uploading it will give below the picture a link/url to it.

Then come back here and open a new post in the thread and use these tags surrounding the url that you got from photobucket:

[I M G] ......url here..... [/ I M G]

no spaces inside the tags they are there for demonstration purposes only.

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Perhaps we could give Norway an understrength submarine flotilla and an understrength monitor flotilla (max_strength)?

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I´ve also made an icon for the earliest submarine type. Don´t know if you´ll like it, but I´ll post it anyway.

[StephenT]

I do have them, But I don't know how to post images, can I send them to someone?

Are they formatted in the HoI2 way, or will that need to be done? You could send them to me and I'll re-post them here.
tgw [at] stempest [dot] demon [dot] co [dot] uk

And the ships "Harald Haarfagre/Tordenskjold" and "Norge/Eidsvold" is two different classes of ships. (The Tordenskjold Class is called a pre dread costal battleship, And the "Norge" class is a smaller vessel. You can call it a cruiser)

From Conway's:

Harald Haarfagre class (1897):
3,858 tons
Two 8.2" guns, six 4.7" guns, two torpedo tubes and 12 light guns.
Speed 17 knots
Armour: Belt 7-4", turrets 8-5"

Norge class (1900):
4,165 tons
Two 8.2" guns, six 5.9" guns, two torpedo tubes and twelve light guns.
Speed 16.5 knots
Armour: Belt 6", turrets 9-5"

So the Norge and Eidsvold were actually bigger and slightly more heavily armed than the Harald Haarfagre and Tordenskjold - but frankly, I don't think the difference is big enough to make them different models.

However, all these ships compare to armoured cruisers of other navies, not predreadnought battleships. Compare:

Majestic class British predreadnought (1896):
14,560 tons (over three times larger)
Four 12" guns, twelve 6" guns, five torpedo tubes and 28 light guns. (more than three times as much firepower)
Speed 17 knots (similar)
Armour: Belt 9", turrets 14" (half again as thick)

Cressy class British armoured cruiser (1900):
12,000 tons (still three times larger)
Two 9.2" guns, twelve 6" guns, two torpedo tubes and 15 light guns. (slightly more firepower)
Speed 21 knots (faster)
Armour: Belt 6-2", turrets 6-5" (about the same)

Based on that I think it's reasonable to class all four ships as armoured cruisers.

As far as I know the real inventory was in 1914 (Minus costal only ships)

4 A Class Submarines
35 (Different models) Torpedo boats
2 Eidsvold Class Armoured Ships
2 Tordeskjold Class Costal Battleships
4 Skorpionen Class Monitors (Old and was decommisioned after ww1)
1 Valkyrjen TorpedoDivision Ship
3 Gor Class Gun Boats
5 Vale Class Minelayers/Rebuilt Gunboats

I have pictures of them all exept the monitors (I do have drawings of them)
And if it is of any use I do have pictures of ships built during the war or right after.
The Destroyer "Garm" Built 6/7 1914
Torpedo Boat "Trygg" 1919
Submarine "B1" of the B Class(American "Holland" class) 1922

The four monitors were left out of the game because of their age (about 50 years old) and limited capabilities (less firepower than a destroyer). However, now that we've introduced the Monitor ship class we could include a single unit to represent these four monitors - or alternatively, an Ironclad unit?

The smaller ships were grouped together into the three destroyer units. We could include a 40%-strength submarine unit for the submarines, too.

[fanta_a]

I'm not on my own computer but I made this one. Just testing.

This is the ship "Norge".



I will come back with more when I get home.

And yes it was the other way around. I had a feeling that it was something strange, when I tried to find out what kind of a class the ships were when I was looking at wikipedia. By looking at the pictures they didn't apear as big as what they called a battleship.

[fanta_a]

ok, here I have the two others.
I hope they can be used.

First out is the ship "Viking".


And The pre war Torpedo Boat "Glimt".


I made this second version of the torpedoboat, of some torpedoboats in formation, I like the picture, but didn't know if you wanted pictures of single ships or if multiple is ok too. (Do not have right filename)


You did not request them, but if there is a place for them in the game...
And I have the destroyer that was built during 1914. 6.june


The Monitor "Skorpionen".


The last torpedoboat norway built First in 1919. I do not know if it is a place for it in the game. The Name and Class "Trygg".


Submarine from 1909 The A Class


And The B Class from 1922

[StephenT]

I've made some changes to the unit_names.csv file, to update things like the descriptions of mechanised and motorised infantry to talk about reserve and guards instead.

Amended file is here.

Changes are:

SNAME_MULTI_ROLE;2s F

SDESC_MULTI_ROLE;Two-Seater Wing

SDESC_TRANSPORT_PLANE;Airship Group

LDESC_INFANTRY;Infantry will most likely form the backbone of your army. They are relatively cheap to build and require no regular fuel supply to manoeuvre, but their speed of advance is limited. However, Infantry are able to occupy large areas of land, securing ground captured by other forces.

LDESC_CAVALRY;Cavalry are able to move fairly rapidly over most types of terrain and do not require a supply of fuel to operate, but they are lightly armed, and the automatic weapons of the time can inflict devastating casualties to both men and horses. That is not to say that Cavalry can't prove useful in some instances as a mobile reserve.

LDESC_MOTORIZED;Reserve Infantry are the volunteer and conscripted troops who formed the mass armies of the Great War. They are cheaper to train and equip than regular infantry, but also less effective, especially on the attack.

LDESC_MECHANIZED;Guards and Assault Divisions are the elite of the army. Given the first choice of men and equipment and trained with the latest doctrines, they are used to spearhead the most important offensives and counter-attacks.

LDESC_PARATROOPER;Light Infantry units lack the heavy artillery and other specialised equipment of regular divisions, but they make up for this in training and élan. They are particularly useful in areas with poor infrastructure such as mountains, deserts and jungles.

LDESC_CAS;Contour Bombers are heavily armoured against ground fire, giving them the ability to fly along the contours of the ground to strike precisely at enemy units, and so enabling your ground forces to achieve a breakthrough.

LDESC_INTERCEPTOR;Scout Fighters are the hunters of the sky. Fast, manoeuvreable and heavily armed, they are designed to win air superiority by pursuing and destroying enemy bombers and reconnaissance aircraft.

LDESC_MULTI_ROLE;Two-seat Fighters are larger and slower than scouts, but have the extra firepower of a rear gun and the ability to carry a small bomb load, making them more of a multi-purpose aircraft.

LDESC_TACTICAL_BOMBER;Reconnaissance aircraft and bombers are used to locate the enemy, produce detailed maps of their trenches, and then either direct artillery fire onto their positions, or attack them directly with bombs.

LDESC_TRANSPORT_PLANE;Flying high out of range of defensive fire, airships can carry an extremely heavy payload over long distances, making them ideal for strategic bombing. Their long range also makes them suitable for naval cooperation role. However, they are slow-moving, and will eventually become vulnerable to higher-performance aircraft.

LDESC_NAVAL_BOMBER;Seaplanes and Flying Boats are designed for use over water, scouting for enemy ships and submarines and then guiding friendly naval forces to their location. They can also make accurate tactical strikes against enemy surface vessels themselves using torpedoes or bombs.


I haven't changed any of the other language descriptions; that would need someone with the requisite language skills.

[D.A.D.O.E.S.?]

I sat down and worked up an Excel spread sheet of Div and Brig with starting values and some changes that I'm trying out. Is there any way to post it as a tool for others (at least the ver 1914-01 stuff). I included in it a total IC cost for units available in 1912, all base on generic values. I’m working on new table with UK, FR, RS, US, GM, A&H values right now. Some pretty eye popping numbers for LT Inf and Guard units (2160 and 1750 total ICs ). I know this is play test, but those two units just cost too much for me to think about with out adjusting them a little. Small portion of cost table below.

Type - - Cost-x- Time-=- Total IC Cost
1912 Infantry 10x 95= 950
Reserve Inf 8x 100*= 800
Guards Inf 14*x 125= 1750
Mountain Inf 8x 120= 960
Light Inf 12*x 180*= 2160
Garrison Inf 5*x 60= 300
Militia 4x 55= 220
Cavalry 8x 90= 720
Engineer 4x 45= 180
Gendarmerie 2x 35= 70
Artillery 5x 60= 300
Heavy Artillery 6x 70= 420
Heavy Wep Sec 5*x 70= 350
Armored Cars 3*x 60= 180
Cavalry 4x 60= 240
Communications 5x 60= 300
Logistics 3x 60= 180

* indicate values that I am playing with (some up, most down)

In brigades AC and Eng are still best and Mount beats out Lt Inf & Guard esp in H & M areas (like a lot of Europe is). This my opinion based, on cost, time and capabilities.

[StephenT]

I sat down and worked up an Excel spread sheet of Div and Brig with starting values and some changes that I'm trying out. Is there any way to post it as a tool for others (at least the ver 1914-01 stuff).

Some options would be:
a) Upload the Excel file to a server and post a link to it here.
b) Save the file as a tab-separated text file and copy it here.
c) Take a screenshot and post it here.
d) Save it as a PDF, convert the PDF to a GIF and post that.

Type - - Cost-x- Time-=- Total IC Cost
1912 Infantry 10x 95= 950
Reserve Inf 8x 100*= 800
Guards Inf 14*x 125= 1750
Mountain Inf 8x 120= 960
Light Inf 12*x 180*= 2160
Garrison Inf 5*x 60= 300
Militia 4x 55= 220

Interesting. I agree that some changes are in order. My suggestions would be:

Reduce the Time for Reserve units to 75: they should take less time than default infantry, not more! That gives them a total cost of 600, about 2/3 that of Infantry, which feels about right. (We'll also need to check their combat values too: they should have about the same defensive strength as Infantry, but their attack values should be just a little better than Militia.)

The cost and time for Light Infantry are completely out of line, and I suspect it's because they are still using the values for Paratroopers. I suggest that Time be 100 and cost the same as Mountain Infantry (8) - these units are equipped in a similar way to Mountain units but lack the specialist mountain climbing training. That makes them cost 800, making them cheaper than Mountain units.

I'm less concerned about Guards because they should be the most expensive units, but perhaps 1750 is a little too much. I suggest reducing cost to 12 and making time 120 (same as Mountain troops) giving a total of 1440. Still 50% more than most other unit types, but we don't want people building lots of them. They're useful in a couple of situations: if you're a small power with lots of IC but not much manpower, or if you want a spearhead unit that crams the maximum combat power into the minimum stacking limit.

[D.A.D.O.E.S.?]

[QUOTE=StephenT]
Interesting. I agree that some changes are in order. My suggestions would be:

................QUOTE]

Your ideas on numbers are pretty much what I was thinking as well, Stephen.

[jova]

I did some rework on units even earlier and I've sent files to Allenby, but he hasn't compiled any download package since 0.1 yet. I still need to game test and balance land units and could finish that soon, hopefully.

I agree with StephenT about combat values and I've made similar changes, but I an convinced that costs must go up, not down. With doctrines researched and slider moved to hawk, units are very cheap.

Also, I drastically increased supply consumption, but that will also need careful testing.

[StephenT]

I agree with StephenT about combat values and I've made similar changes, but I an convinced that costs must go up, not down. With doctrines researched and slider moved to hawk, units are very cheap.

Maybe so, but they should be proportionate. Reserve should still be abut 2/3 the cost of Infantry, even if you double the cost of both.

[D.A.D.O.E.S.?]

I have a couple of question and thoughts about Army Unit Modifiers table. First should I just ignore the CavB column this unit being a Brigade would be run around by it’s self, or this something else? Second did the armor division idea die off, so ignore this column as well? While look at this table it appears that Res and Grd have Mot and Mech values and Lt I has Para numbers. Unless some has different idea I was going to change to match Inf in all fields, then come back and revisit this late. Though I have one idea now, that to give Lt I a 33% bonus in movement for Mtn, Hill, Swamp, Snow, Jungle, Forest, and Desert. This would mean they would move at -22% vs -33% (I’ll break it down below) for most. They wouldn’t get a bonus for Blizzard and Frozen cause nobody not trained in those environments does well, and Mud well no one march fast though mud.
This fast move bonus goes with my personnel thoughts about Lt I, that is they should be limited on brigades they get, no Art, H Art, AC, Arm, Gas. Those are unit that would have difficulty move over above mentioned terrains, thus slowing Lt I down.

Inf Lt I
Mtn -33% -22%
Hill -15% -10%
Swamp -33% -22%
Snow -35% -24%
Jungle -33% -22%
Forest -15% -10%
Desert -33% -22%

Oh one last thought, why is Cav so bad in desert, -70% move and -33% defend vs -33% and -10% for all others? This doesn’t make senses to me, in move alone horse are going to do as well as men marching, this isn’t even counting Arabian Horses or Camels which are breed for desert. As for that last thought they would be what desert Tribal Cav would ride. As for defending I just dont understand that 23% differance.