The Democratic BAR: Your vote counts

[aegandolfi]

Dear Senators and Honorable Minister Fodoron,

I fear our great Republic must prepare for war. We have already achieved great triumphs against the perfidius Hungarians, but they are not our historic enemies. We face great dangers from the Visconti in Milan, and the infidel Turks who are rising in the east. To compound this, the Byzantines appear on the verge of collapse. However, we have excellent leaders both of the army and the navy, and our fleet can dominate the seas.

We must end the current war quickly, while maintaining our rightful hold on Dalmatia. Then we should shift our military doctrines to emphasize the upcoming offensives. We should attempt to rally the free cities of Italy to our cause (Firenze, Modena and Siena). We must crush Milan, and reclaim our rightful lands of Mantua, and liberate the Emilia if possible.

Then we must look to the east. If the Byzantines can not stabilize their situation, we may be forced to take possession of the great city of Constantinople to save it from the Turk. Although I regret having to wage war on fellow Christians, the alternatives are far worse. As they are schismatics, and have failed to stem the Turkish tide, Christendom will not look too harshly on our conquests.

We must also look for opportunities to free the Christians who are held under the thumb of the infidels of Ghazi and Egypt, but this can await favorable events.

After we have secured a stable base for our power in the East, we can return to focus on our more natural mercantile persuits.

Your humble servant,

Arturo Ernesto Gandolfi

[aegandolfi]

Code:

Election 3
O+ C+ S-

Election 4
1. Dalmatia


Election 5
1. Tuscany, Modena, Siena, Bavaria
2. Castile, Portugal, Savoy, Poland, Hungary, England
3. Papal States, Aragon, Naples
4. Milan, Ottoman, Byzantium, Genoa, Ghazi, Egypt

__________________

[aegandolfi]

Election 6
1. L 50% N 0% S 0% T 0% P 50% M 0%

2. A. No B. No C. 100% D. No E. No F. 5%

3. E. Mint as needed to avoid defeat, or achieve significant victory. But don't be afraid to white peace or pay to get out of a war that's not going well.

4. C

AG

[lawkeeper]

Election 6
1.  L 10%, N 25%, S 0%, T 40%, P 25%, M 0%

2. A no, B no, C 100%, D 100%, E ?, F no limit

3. A

4. A

Comment : for the conversions, only mint to convert if you can't sufficiently tolerate the religion to avoid revolts in peace time (barring nationalism and event RR). Otherwise, if a wrong-religion province is profitable (high base tax value), try to convert it, if the benefit will be high enough for the cost.


We are traders, we are not converned by their souls, only by their money and work-force, for as long as they don't cause any trouble and stay out of our city. Let the priests and Pope care about their salvation, they'll be busy and won't impair the development of the Serenissima Republica, be it on the outside or on the inside.

We, the Senate of the Republica, should focus all our efforts on expanding our economy, because it's money which is driving the world and turn the sun around, not the contrary.

[Miozozny]

Election 3:
C+ I+ M+

Election 4:
1. Dalmatia (and some cash if possible)
2. White peace

Election 5:
1. Papal States, Tuscany, Modena, Siena
2. Hungary, Aragon, Naples, Austria, Tyrol
3. OE, Styria
4. Milan, Byzantium, Genoa

Election 6:
1. L 10 N 0 S 0 T 20 P 70 M 0

2. A No B No C 100 D ? E 0 F No limit

3. A

4. C

My ideas about minting for conversion might change if another Doge comes to power.

EDITED: Spelling

[Miozozny]

Dear Doge Tommaso Mocenigo,
Fellow Senators of the Serenissima Repubblica,

I too recognize the threat Milan poses and I too would like to see Mantua returned to our great Republic. And I recognize the threat Genoa still poses to our trade. In this I think we should first neutralize the threat Milan poses, while fighting Genoa is not as urgent.
But two other areas should not be forgotten. First the goldmines on our border. Trading is an important way to get rich, but a goldmine would also increase our income. Still, this isn't as important as taking care of the threats Milan and Genoa pose.
The second point is that we should finish the work of the Doge Enrico Dandolo and capture Byzantium. The arrogant fools still claim part of out territory should be part of their empire and a good relation with them will be hard to maintain.

PS: I don't know anything about AGCEEP, so if there's no goldmine in Steiermark skip the part about gold

[carlec]

Election 3--As a young member to the Senate, I feel it wise to withhold voting on this election in favor of the far more wiser members. I will simply add that as the great naval force, we should not neglet our fleet.

Election 4--1.Dalamatia
2. White Peace

Election 5--
1. Papal Estates, Tuscany, Modena, Austria
2. Byzantium
3. Milan
4. Ottoman Empire, Genoa

Election 6--
1. L 0%, N 0%, S 0%, T 0%, P 100%, M 0%
I would add that after production gains a level, that all should be put towards trade. We have a lead here, let's hold it!
2. A No B. No, C. 100, D ?, E ?, F no limit
3. B
4. A

I would remind the Senate that we have long supported the Pontifex Maximus. Meanwhile, Milan has long been an evil force in the region. However, I will strongly echo Senator aegandolfi in that while Genoa might be an issue to our West, our real danger lies to the south. The infidels rising through the ancient lands of the Eastern Roman Empire will not stop nor be thwarted by the prospect of negotiation. Our rich islands in the Eastern Mediterannean are exposed. It would seem prudent, wise and honoring to our great faith for us to focus on controlling our south before we spend too much energy on the issue of Italy.

[Fodoron]

I know I am getting on your nerves with so many elections. This is the last one previous to game start. I'll close the others by Friday and this one by Monday, so I can play a session over the weekend. With all these elections I will know what kind of country the Senate wants to run.

From now on the game will go ahead and will be stopped at intervals or decision points. The senate can at any time evaluate my performance. Instead of the ridiculously generous promotion system of EUII, I should be demoted or promoted according to the much higher standards of our most noble senate.

[Fodoron]

Election 7. 1419-1469 Economic priorities

This election deals with the peacetime investment of the monthly income and with non military expenses for our treasure:

1. Peacetime research (II)
Once we know where the sliders stand, I need to know the stability investment choice:
When at lower than +2 stability, we should invest in:
a) Always research
b) Invest in stability until at least +2, then research
c) Other, specify.

2. Treasure expenditure
Order the following items according to your priorities for 1419-1469 Venice.
-Merchants
-Conversions
-Manufactories (FAAs)
-Promotions (TCs)
-Diplomatic gifts

3. Do you agree or disagree with keeping a reserve fund of about 200 D. once the high priority items are covered?

RESULTS:

1. Stability investment
Almost everybody wants to invest on research unless stability becomes negative.

2. Cash priorities:
-Promotions (TCs) (5 votes for 1st, out of 8)
-Merchants (4 votes for 2nd or higher)
-Diplomatic gifts (4 votes for 3rd or higher)
-Manufactories (FAAs) (5 votes for 4th or higher)
-Conversions

3. Everybody wants a reserve fund.

[lawkeeper]

Election 7

1. A, C : see 2.

2. Treasure expenditure
-Manufactories (FAAs)
-Promotions (TCs)
-Merchants
-Conversions
-Diplomatic gifts

3. Yes

Comment : keeping a reserve ensures we don't have to take a loan when/if we receive a random (or historical) event asking for an immediate money payment. But army & navy maintenance have to be low, we don't want to see all our yearly census taxes go to the soldiers.

[the_genius]

Election 6
1. L 5%, N 25%, S 0%, T 50%, P 20%
2. A No, B No, C 50%, D 50%, E 1, F 10%
3. C 8%
4. A

Election 7
1. A
2. 
- Merchants
- Manufactories (FAAs)
- Diplomatic Gifts
- Promotions (TCs)
- Conversions
3. Agree

Comments:
I respectfully remember my fellow Senators the main items for our government: Naval Superiority and Trade. Our fine diplomacy should be our principal weapon to be use before anything else, that is why I'm agree on keeping a fund for hard times.

[The Arch Mede]

Election 3.

O- M+ M+

[The Arch Mede]

Election 4

1. Dalmatia, Croatia and/or force-vassalise
2. WP

Strategy. Go O- for the siege bonus and delay any offensive action, except pillaging, until the Hungarians have starved down to a small army and run out of money to hire replacements. Get military access through a neighbour to allow flanking of the Croatia bottleneck. Keep army on 50%, unless an opportunity appears to crush their army.

Election 5
1. Genoa
2. Other italians
3. Otto
4. Hungary

Election 6
1. P 100%
2. A:No, B:No, C:100%, D:No, E:1, F:5%
3. E: Mint to avoid monthly deficit
4. D: Once per war providing inflation remains below limit set in 2F. above

Election 7
1. a Research (but review if a lot of non- catholic territory acquired)
2. TC, Conversion (if doge talented in that direction), diplomatic gift (but review if cost of merchants decreases, or ability to build other manufactories is acquired) merchants only to CoT with many empty slots, no FAA
3. keep reserve and build up surplus to be ready for conversion spending under talented doge and other manufactury types

Comments: hoard gold for the better investment opportunities that will occur when our infrastructure has improved. Don't recruit over the support limits. Only pay troops over 50% during emergencies. A state of war is not necessarily an emergency. Don't throw away money on unprofitable merchants.

[aegandolfi]

I would like to point out to my noble colleagues that investing in Trade and Production research may not be prudent at the moment. We are far ahead of our neighbors in these area, and our forecasts show that the investment will not make an appreciable difference for over a hundred years. On the other hand, and investment in Land technology will lead to improvement in about 10 years.

AEG

[Horvendile]

This will be long, I hope I will get it all right...

Election 3

C+ I+ C+

I fear there is trouble ahead. It would be unwise to alienate the nobles at this stage, since we may need their support in negotiations with our neighbours. And on a related note, cavalry is expensive as it is. Hopefully, there will be a time when we can afford to deal with the arrogance of the nobles. But the time is not now.
However, to balance the influence of the nobility we need to centralise the state more, increasing our influence in the provinces without outright taking it from the nobility.
And finally, we must never forget that our might relies primarily not on the sword, but on wits and cunning merchants. I say that we need to encourage such thinking, and one small step in that direction will not decrease our options in colonising and missionairing (sp?) in any significant way for a long time.

Election 4

1. Dalmatia
2. Pay tribute (no land loss)

Election 5

1. Hungary
2. Austria
3. Genoa
4. Byzantium, Milan, Ottoman Empire

We must not be blinded by the neighbour's small campfire and thus not see the forest ablaze. I agree that Genoa is sadly lacking in understanding for our needs, and we will talk to them about this when time comes. But first we should undertake a mission in the service of humanity. Know that Constantinople is in danger of falling to the Ottomans. Can you bear the thought of the great Hagia Sofia converted to a mosque? No, we must help our fellow Christians in old Byzantium. Unfortunately they are so far down the road of disintegration that I see no other way than to temporarily take over the state and rule it under us until its former glory is restored. Then we release them. My scientific calculations indicate that this will happen on January 1, 1820.

Also as a service to humanity, we must be prepared to fight the misguided Ottomans. In this we will be helped by the cushion to the Ottoman hammer that is Hungary. I am sure that as soon as the embarrassing quarrel over Dalmatia has been solved, they will understand that we must stand united against the vile south.

In between Byzantium, Ottoman Empire and the prospect of taking on Genoa and reclaim what is rightly ours from Milan, I think that an additional campaign against Austria would be most unwise, unless there is an extraordinary opportunity to show even those sad mountain-dwellers the joy of the Mediterranean way of life.

Election 6

1. N 25%, P 75%

2. A No, B No, C 100%, D No, E No, F 6%

3. E. Do not mint at war, unless catastrophe seems certain if one does not mint.

4. A

In trade, I think we are so far ahead of our neighbours that further advances there would only make them confused. Trade being a dialogue, we rest on our laurels for a while. Production, on the other hand, could benefit from further research, thus strengthening our future position in trade as well. I am sure we do not intend to fight much on land, but we must keep our advantage where it really matters for true Venetians: the Sea!

Election 7

1. C. Invest in stability until at least +1, then research

2.
-Promotions (TCs)
-Manufactories (FAAs)
-Merchants
-Conversions
-Diplomatic gifts

3. Agree

[Ericus1]

Election 3
O- C+ C+

Election 4
Dalmatia + Croatia + Money
Dalmatia

Increasing defensiveness 1 will give us a seige bonus, as mentioned. I think that should be our first step, as it will help us definitively win the war against the Magyar's. As we control the sea, we can prevent Dalmatia from being blockaded, and supply our garrisons holding the captured cities. We should let the Magyars throw their lives away against the impregnable walls, while we gain the blessing of Austria & friends to lead armies to attack through their territories. With the siege bonus, we should be able to hit from Austria to Presburg, Odenburg, or the heart of Hungary itself and rapidly capture territories (especially the mountain fortresses) while their armies are in the south, then reinforce from or retreat back into Austrian territories if they send their armies north and pathetically attempt to take them back with their inferior seige abilities.

We should beat them into submission, then when they are thoroughly cowed, we seige and capture Croatia, and take it as punishment for thwarting us, and Dalmation as our rightful territory. As the passes through Croatia will be the only direct route between ourselves and Hungary, I feel that ownership of the province will be a far superior defensive point should the Magyar's decide to test us again. Should I also point out that an army stationed in Croatia would be within striking distance of (Buda)Pest itself? In addition, a policy of true defensiveness will bolster our fortification efforts, both directly and indirectly. (cough, more bonus random fortification events, cough)

Once the war is won, we should focus our efforts on improving the governorship of the Republic. We should be a beacon of law and order to the world.

Election 5
1. Naples, Austria, Poland
2. Italian states
3. Hungary, Aragon, Milan
4. Ottomans, Genoesse scum

Naples is a small state surrounded by powerful enemies, and is likely to be attacked rapidly. I think it is our duty to help keep our sister state free of foreign dominace as well as providing some opportunities for 'Just' wars and expansion among our Italian breathren.

Austria is fragile now, but if the last several decades are any evidence, they are a rising star. We should ally with them now, 1. becuase they share borders with our common enemies and can aid us (or just distract them) in our fights, 2. becuase they will guard the north, the one flank that our control of the sea will not help us (no, I don't mean the blockadable straights to Veneto, I just mean in general), and 3. becuase they share the one true faith.

The same holds true for Poland, on counts 1 and 3.

The Magyars and Turks are likely to flex their muscles against the weak states to the East, and while we wouldn't 'personally' mind seeing the orthodox fools crushed, we cannot allow the M's or T's to grow strong feasting on the slavonic carcass. We should work to sieze their gains whenever opportunity presents itself. The heathen Turks especially turn my stomach, and I would like to see them absolutely crushed as soon as possible, for I fear what a re-emergence of a strong empire in the east would do to the trade routes to the Orient. If that means that we must save the Byzantines from themselves and prevent them from being overrun (at least, by anybody other than us), so be it.

Once the East is secure, we should focus on the Penisula. The conflict with Genoa must end, and end with their destructions, whether at our hands, or by others at our motivation. The Iberians need to be pushed out of Italy, and if a opportune time presents itself, we should take it, before they grind the rest of the boot beneath their heel. (okay, corny pun, shoot me)

Election 6
1. L 20, N 10, T 25, I 40, M 5%

2. A)No B)Yes C)No D)No E)No F)No more than 1.5% per decade (so if it's 1510, do not mint if above 15%)

3. E. The funds for the raising of new troops must come from taxes or loans, if absolutely necessary, but try to mint enough to keep a near 0 monthly budget so the census taxes will last.

4. A

As trade is our lifeblood, we must see that we maintain our superiority. To that end, I suggest we focus first on gaining the technology needed to bring to fruition the plans for this new structure, a 'refinery' as I have heard it termed. From what I understand, this new building will help improve our merchants abilities. Once these are being built, we should then switch to a 45% T, 20% I and dominate world trade. I would especially find enormous glee if our merchants managed to so dominate the Genoesse scum's CoT, that everyone there packed up and left (laughs insanely, chokes, falls to the ground gasping for air, gets up, looks around sheepishly to make sure nobody saw, whistles while walking away and pretends the whole thing never happened). According to my calculations, if we follow my plan we could start work on our first refinery in 1467. In addition, while we already have dominance of the seas, it is from the land that we receive our funds, it is there we must protect. If we maintain our defensive, naval stance, only a superiority of weapons will allow us to defeat our enemies, and that is where we should focus our military research.

Also, I think our first priority with our starting funds should be the promotion of TC's in our 3 richest provinces: Veneto itself, Crete, and Corfu. This will help provide the funds for the war effort. We can worry about the other three (hopefully more) when the war is over (and use the funds we'll gain from it for that purpose ). Lastly, I believe we should mint enough coin to keep our montly budget only slightly negative, enough so that funds will accrue in the treasure, but not so much that we devalue our monies.

[carlec]

1. c --invest in research unless we dive below 0, in which case I would want to see some money put back into stability---in my limited experience, once you get to minus numbers, many more bad things happen.

2. Treasure expenditure
-Promotions (TCs)
-Merchants
-Diplomatic gifts
-Manufactories (FAAs)
-Conversions


3. Agree

And yes, our trade is good and we are ahead---let us keep it that way. Solid diplomacy and careful generalship can protect whatever limit we find in our military level. Avoiding open battle on the plains of the Balkans will provide us the protection we need, allowing us to pour our resources into province investment and yes, trade.

Senator Ericus is correct that the Hapsburgs have made major inroads in Austria. They can be more friend than foe, at least during these years of crisis for Christiandom. We cannot ignore the infidels.

[Fodoron]

As it could be predicted, with the proliferation of initial decisions we are starting to see a reduction in the number of votes. This is not necessarily bad, but to avoid excessive spread of opinions that can result in the implementation of minority policies, I think it would be good to have a discussion so some senators can address other senators to try to have them to change their votes in important matters. If an agreement can be reached it would be a lot better for the Republic.

Two issues call my attention, but some more can be identified by other senators and brought to the discussion.

The first one is regarding the priority of appointing tax collectors. Some senators are giving that decision a low priority in their vote. I remind them that without tax collectors we will not have census taxes, thus making minting our main option to rise enough funds for monthly expenditures.

The second one pertains our relationship with Byzantium. Some senators propose we help them against the turks, while other senators say we take charge of their destiny directly. Currently we cannot ally them since we are allied with the Duchy of Athens and they are allied with the Despotate of Morea. Since the empire is reduced to one territory, currently they are only a vassalage break and a siege away of disappearing under the muslim tide. We don't want to see the destruction of Constantinopla, so we should discuss to what degree of intervention we are willing to go. If we want to help them, we can give them our hard won money in gifts, and hope they put that money to good use. If we want to take charge of them, we have a casus belli against their ally, the Despot of Morea, and I am sure our allies in Athens would be happy to annex Morea.

I am addressing the Consiglio Maggiore on this issue in the brother thread, and I would like to see senators defending their position, and attacking other senator's positions as it is so common in our Republic. You can post there or here according to your preferences.

[aegandolfi]

Election 7

1. C, Don't invest in stability during early period as long as natural increase is relatively fast. If we've grown to the point we don't recover quickly, invest somewhat to get to +1

2. TC's, merchants in own CoT (up to 5), gifts (to vassals or needed allies), Manu's (2 refineries), missionaries

3. Yes, when feasible (can violate during war, or to take advantage of excellent minister etc.)

Sorry for all the qualifications,

AG

[Norrefeldt]

Doge Tommaso Mocenigo,
Fellow Senators of the Serenissima Repubblica,
collecting taxes is of outmost importance! We can not sustain anything of importance without this basic mean of collecting taxes. But instead of minting and debasing our currency to build them, I suggest we take a loan and build them, if we cannot find the money to build them now. It is more profitable to mint when tax collecting works, and as a small bonus we can get bailiffs now and will not suffer from the increased cost when appointing them.
I will soon get together my last votes after pressing private business has been taken care of.
Senator Nordino