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The Democratic BAR: Your vote counts

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I think to make this work, we need to give our able ministers a lot of discretion on events. :)

I think it's impossible to "hard-code" our priorities. Things like stab hits and inflation depend so much on game situation (ie I'll almost always take -1 stab if I'm at +2 or +3, or +1 inflation if I'm at 0-3%, to get something good).

Overall, I would say prioritize long term items, unless the choice risks crippling your country.

So, in general I would say "never" take minuses to base tax value, "always" take gains. "Always" take free manufacturies. "Always" take cores, unless there owned by a friend. Avoid inflation unless we're well below 5%, or we're early in the game as Venice :rolleyes: (Oops, I'm practicing the black art of divination. Don't worry, Venice never let the Inquisition in ;)

Stab, ducats, merchants, diplomats, missionaries, dip relations etc., can all be gained by waiting, so I place a low value on them, again unless desparate.

As for slider moves, I say we just agree on what directions to move, and let Fodoron make the tradeoffs.

After all, we Senators have Ministers so we don't have to do too much work. ;)

In Fodoron we trust!

AG
 
Fodoron said:
If you have any good idea, easy to implement, on improving the process of translating your desires into my instructions, I am anxious to hear it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure whether this is a good idea, or one of those ideas that sound good initially but later turn out to be awful. But you could give us a number of points, say 20, that we are allowed to allocate between out priorities. Then you just sum the points and have your priority list.

Small example, with five allowed points and three voters:

Senator A: Cores 4 p, Tax Value 1 p
Senator B: Rebellion 3 p, Cores 2 p
Senator C: Manpower 1 p, DP Mercantilism 1 p, Rebellion 1 p, Tax Value 1 p
(Senator C decides that s/he only want to use four of the points)

The final priority standing would then be:
Cores (6 p)
Rebellion (4 p)
Tax Value (2 p)
Manpower, DP Mercantilism (all 1 p)
 
I'm reluctant to submit all those effects to a vote, because two factors won't always have the same relative value to each other, not only for different situations/dates, but also for different magnitudes of the event.

For example, take money and base tax.
Case 1 : choice between 1000d and +1 BTV in a state-culture/state-religion/core province. Take the money, anytime, because 400 years of 1 BTV, even at stab +3 at all times, will only yield 960d.
Case 2 : choice between +1 BTV in a wrong-culture/wrong-religion province and 100d. Take the BTV, because you'll get in barely a century 80d even at lower stab, and so you'd get 100d in 125 years (which is short enough to matter).
Those are easy choices. But what about case 3 : +5 BTV in state-culture/state-religion/core province or 2500d. The BTV will ultimately lead to nearly twice the bonus money. But 2500d are enough to build an early manu. The choice is much harder.


Actually, I wonder if it couldn't be possible (yes, I think it is, but I'll stay humble until the Senate is appointed :p ) that, when you get targeted by an historic event asking a choice, you save & quit. You then ask a vote of the Senate, and once the vote is closed, you reload and trigger the event via the console. That way, it allows the Senate (I use Senate as 'default' term, until we know what to use) to actually voice in.
But I'd say you're not forced to always follow the vote, and if an event is more related to the Executive Power rather than the Legislative, it's up to you to make the choice. And if the event is an easy-to-decide-upon, you could also make the choice yourself (as +100d or a revolt :rolleyes: ).
Additionnally, the general guidelines, on whether follow trade/naval/land/colonization/DP/etc, could lead you in a general direction.
 
I agree with Senator Lawkeeper, there are choices for an event or for the changes that we can introduce to the Policies every 10 years that should be discussed inmediately at the moment, according to a decision made of us, the Senate - temporal name -; and there are also some decisions (easy ones as you put it Lawkeeper) that you can decide on right away.

Something else, instead of chosing from those subjects, because at the end, almost the entire list in important for most of us; you should put on votation the other stuff that you talked about (wars, budget, researching, etc.) when the country is selected.

I think this votation (for me) is not rational... and I second the idea of Lawkeeper on this, that you should stop when a major event (major = hard decision) occurs, when to enter an alliance or to form one, going or to war if an ally ask you, or DOW... ask us, we'll discuss it, make a decision, and you'll put it work.... that's what I think....

Well, to make this very formal (as it should be)

Senator the_genius
Code: 
Election 3: 
?
 
Fodoron said:
What you are doing is ordering my list :). Only on a harder format for me to work out :(.

Of course I wont make a dumb choice just to spit at the council. And Venice didn't need the Inquisition. The Council of Ten could dispose of anybody, even of a Doge that thinks he knows better how to handle events.
Click to expand...

Sorry, what I really meant to do is give you more discretion. If you really want an ordered list I can do so.

Tax value
Manufactories
Cores
Inflation
DP's
Population
The rest I'm indifferent, ie. leave to your judgement.
 
lawkeeper said:
I'm reluctant to submit all those effects to a vote, because two factors won't always have the same relative value to each other, not only for different situations/dates, but also for different magnitudes of the event.

Actually, I wonder if it couldn't be possible (yes, I think it is, but I'll stay humble until the Senate is appointed :p ) that, when you get targeted by an historic event asking a choice, you save & quit. You then ask a vote of the Senate, and once the vote is closed, you reload and trigger the event via the console. That way, it allows the Senate (I use Senate as 'default' term, until we know what to use) to actually voice in.
But I'd say you're not forced to always follow the vote, and if an event is more related to the Executive Power rather than the Legislative, it's up to you to make the choice. And if the event is an easy-to-decide-upon, you could also make the choice yourself (as +100d or a revolt :rolleyes: ).
Additionnally, the general guidelines, on whether follow trade/naval/land/colonization/DP/etc, could lead you in a general direction.
Click to expand...

OK, I will then use my judgement for random events, and I will save and submit the historic events that do require to be evaluated by the Council. This is probably easier.

If the majority agrees with this, I will cancel this election shortly.
 
Agree totally with Fodorons latest suggestion.
 
Fodoron said:
If the majority agrees with this, I will cancel this election shortly.
Click to expand...
Agree... it'd be easier...
 
Fodoron said:
If the majority agrees with this, I will cancel this election shortly.
Click to expand...

Aye.
Choosing in the actual events is much preferable
Though I suppose that saving and reloading at alliance requests isn't possible. Or is it? I have never saved and loaded with dialogue boxes open.
 
Horvendile said:
Aye.
Choosing in the actual events is much preferable
Though I suppose that saving and reloading at alliance requests isn't possible. Or is it? I have never saved and loaded with dialogue boxes open.
Click to expand...
Dialogue boxed close, and aren't opened again.

But with events, you may open the console and manually trigger the event, to get it back.
 
lawkeeper said:
Dialogue boxed close, and aren't opened again.

But with events, you may open the console and manually trigger the event, to get it back.
Click to expand...
Uh right!.. darn!.. well, when we are finishing chosing the country and all that... Fodoron you can put on votation the guidelines for us... like what kind of alliances can we get in, or what wars can we enter, etc...
 
lawkeeper said:
Dialogue boxed close, and aren't opened again.

But with events, you may open the console and manually trigger the event, to get it back.
Click to expand...

But what happens to the event? A peace or alliance offer you can cancel, but not events. Is it even possible to save before making the choice?
(You'd think it'd be easiest to just test for myself, but I don't have access to the game here.)
 
Horvendile said:
But what happens to the event? A peace or alliance offer you can cancel, but not events. Is it even possible to save before making the choice?
Click to expand...
the consequences for the choices of those events won't occur... so you can reload and manually trigger the event using the console... and then you choose your option... the thing is that you can do this for alliance or DOW question... you can't remake the offering...
 
Election 1.

Part I, general preferences (they don't have to be absolutely coherent)

1. 1419 size of preferred country
A. Minor (1-3 provinces)

2. 1419 religion of country
A. Christian

3. 1419 location of country capital
A. Europe

4. Scenario
A. Plain vanilla

Part II
5. Tver or Genoa
Click to expand...

It all belongs to Mother Tver. Aquilea delendum est.
 
I have taken down the election on event responses and some of my posts referring to it. Come Monday we will close the country election and start deciding on initial movements, basic policies and strategic goals for the first century or so.
 
Fodoron said:
Election ?. 1419-1469 Event response
Order of priority.

5 Cores/Manufactories/Ducats
4 Loan/DP Aristocracy/DP Land/Inflation/DP Centralization
3 Tax value/Manpower/DP Innovativeness/DP Mercantilism/Offensive
2 Quality/DP Serfdom/Monarch skills /Technology investment
1 Stability/Revolt Risk/Rebellion/Relationship to friend/Relationship to foe/Troops/Population/Colonists/Merchants/Missionaries/Diplomats
Click to expand...

5 It all belongs to ..., Money makes the world go round
4 Money now is better than lack of money later
3 See 4 above
2 See 4 above
1 Stability comes back easily, rebels are good practice for the army, relationships should be good anyway, troops cost wages, +2k to a 100k province is worthless but +2k to a 2k province is worth having, nowhere to colonise, sending out more merchants just loses more money and friends, everyone is a good catholic and gets loadsa diplomats into the bargain

Yes I know the election has been cancelled, but I can still voice my opinions. This is still a democracy ... isn't it? ... :eek:
 
The Arch Mede said:
Yes I know the election has been cancelled, but I can still voice my opinions. This is still a democracy ... isn't it? ... :eek:
Click to expand...

Not only you can voice any opinion, but any opinion will be read and valued. :)


The Arch Mede said:
rebels are good practice for the army
Click to expand...

It is the first time I see somebody saying that :eek:
 
/me is signing in as senator

Part I,
1. B. Small (4-7 provinces)

2. A. Christian

3. A. Europe

4. ?

Part II:
I suggest Venice or Denmark
 
Elections 1 and 2 are closed as of now. New council members are welcome at any time, but the country and settings are already fixed. Results will be appended to the respective elections shortly.
 
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