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Thread: The Democratic BAR: Your vote counts

  1. #221
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    1429-1433 Account:

    Year 1429
    No merchants sent. 2 lost (1 by closure in Mecklembourg).
    Minted the whole year (inflation to 3%).
    -TC in Thrace
    -Mercantilism +1 (now 6)
    -Recruited 2000 cav. for 54D in Ionia.
    Enthusiasm for the navy: +5 galleys

    Important international events nearby
    OE had the absorption of Aydin, Mentese & Teke.
    OE had inheritance of Germiyan 3 times.
    Papal States made peace with Burgundy paying 164D.
    Milan made peace with Savoy surrendering Emilia and 64D.

    Our diplomacy
    -sent 33D gift to Milan, relations improved by +25 to -64.

    Year 1430
    No merchants sent. 1 lost
    Capital attraction (BTV +1, increase pop.)

    Important international events nearby
    Athens annexed Morea
    Genoa DoW Georgia, Theodoros, Ak Koyunlu and The Knights.
    Tyrol annexed Milan

    Our diplomacy
    -sent 33D gift to Milan, relations improved by +65 to +1.
    Cyprus made peace with Venice and Modena paying 79D.
    -Entered RM with Cyprus (as requested)

    Year 1431
    No merchants sent. 2 lost
    Stability up to +3

    Important international events nearby
    OE annexed Ak Koyunlu
    Georgia made peace with OE surrendering Sochi and 156D.

    Our diplomacy
    No diplomats were used

    Year 1432
    -Sent 4 merchants for 24D: 1 succeeded, 3 failed, and none was lost.
    Total +1 merchant
    On May, Carmagnola (land leader) died.

    Important international events nearby

    Our diplomacy
    -Obtained military access from Savoy
    -Entered Royal Marriages with Theodoros, Naples and Bosnia.

    Year 1433
    -Sent 4 merchants for 28D: 2 succeeded, 2 failed, and 1 was lost.
    Total +1 merchant
    -Recruited 1000 cav. for 27D in Veneto.

    Important international events nearby
    Kara Koyunlu, OE & Egypt (Albania, Bosnia & Bohemia dishonor) DoW to Timur Empire
    Genoa paid 114D to Georgia, Theodoros, The Knights and Cyprus

    Our diplomacy
    -Obtained military access from Savoy, Bosnia and Naples.
    -Entered Royal Marriage with Hungary.
    -Successfully invited Bosnia to join our alliance
    Last edited by Fodoron; 13-12-2004 at 11:47.
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  2. #222
    Fellow Senators and Dear Friends,

    I wish to add my congratulations to our Victorious Captain General Fodoron.

    The Eastern Campaign went as well as could be hoped, and Constantinople is now secured. I do however fear the Ottoman Turks, as they appear bent on expansion.

    A few questions before we make policy for the next five years.

    1) Who is available to add to our alliance? I would suggest perhaps, Cyprus, The Knights or Albania, depending on military strength, to help in the inevitable war against the Turk.

    2) What are the chances of Modena accepting a vassalege, or Athens agreeing to join our realm? Are they wealthy? How good are their monarchs?

    3) Where stands our international reputation? Can we afford further war?
    I have heard some speak of being able to divine a nation's "points". What does such divination tell us.

    Your servant

    AEGandolfi
    Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum

  3. #223
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    To Senator Gandolfi
    From the ministry of foreign relationships
    Re. Report

    1) There is nobody free at this moment in our neighborhood. Countries followed by a parenthesis are the members of the same alliance. Sometimes a country becomes available for a few days, if it is in the list I will try to have good relationship and grab it for the alliance, like Modena.

    2) For Modena i would say slim. Athens looks better, since already 10 years have passed. 30 years would be better, but is worth a try if senators agree. Our DIP is 7.

    3) It is stated in the 1428 Dec. Report. In International under 1) standing.
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  4. #224
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    Election 9. 1429-1439 International Situation
    
    1. Modena, Tuscany, Naples, Athens, Bosnia
    2. Helvetia, the Knights, Cyprus, Bayern
    3. Tyrol, Savoy, Papal States
    4. Genoa, Ottoman Empire, Albania
    5. Peace
    Bosnia's alliance would help us secure our slavonic front, while the other italian principalties should be led by us in a great alliance. Athens should be kept under vassalage, and protected, for a decade or two before trying to make them join our Repubblica.

    Helvetia and Bayern might be helpful against Tyrol and Savoy, when the time will come to strike them. Cyprus and the Knights are the bastions of christianity in the Eastern Mediterranean, and so should be protected.

    Tyrol and Savoy will be our enemies ... but not now, there're other more pressing matters. The Papal States will have to cede us Siena and Romagna, in time. But for all three, if a war erupts, the goal should be to take a province or two, while wars against other countries should be ended as fast as possible if honor allows.

    Ottoman Empire will be a great enemy, maybe sooner than we expect, and we should be the most aggressive against them if we're attacked in the close future. Taking two, preferably more, greek provinces justifies that "4" class.
    Albania is the only country that stands between our direct possessions of Dalmatia and our overseas possessions in Greece. A vassalization (or an annexation by Athens) should be the objective.
    And for Genoa, well, you know ... Genoa delenda est.

    And I deem we should stay at peace for a time, yet it doesn't mean we should be like sheeps. If an ally is attacked (or is the attacker), we should honor the alliance. Especially if it's a vassal like Athens.

  5. #225
    Colonel carlec's Avatar
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    Senator Dandolo, you did not speak regarding the issue with Count Carmagnola.

    EVENT DECISION 3 -- Option A
    It is still with a heavy heart that I think of how family matters pressed me to missing this critical decision the first time. We clearly saw how his actions almost cost us a crucial gain in the war in the Balkans. He must be made an example of!

    Election 9. 1429-1439 International Situation

    1. Athens, Modena, Tuscany, Bosnia, Austria
    2. Naples, Papal States, The Knights, Wallachia, Styria
    3. Tyrol, Savoy,
    4. OE, Albania
    5. peace
    Doge, the situation to our north will demand your constant vigil as it appears Tyrol will be working to gain a Mediterranean foothold. I told you all that our vassel was in danger. I accept your words that we had neither time nor resources to protect our vassel. Yet, we must be careful. I agree with Dandelo that they can wait, but they may NOT choose to wait. I am not proposing to shift our focus, but we must remain aware. It is this reason that I have proposed that we send agents (I will go if need be) to Austria. With their presence as our friend and possibly future ally, we should be able to dissuade Tyrol from looking further south.

    However, our attention should remain centered in controlling the Balkans. The time is growing ripe for us to gain a further foothold in the region. It is obvious to my sources that the Ottomans will commence plans for a counter attack against us. And why not? We now cut their empire in two. But this of course is to our advantage. Their lands to the north like Bulgaria or west of Macedonia lie open to us. We should make clear plans for future wars with the Infidel. As he slowly watches his world crumble while the might of Venice grows, he will find himself shut out of European affairs. Meanwhile, as we grow in power, we can allow these fertile fields of the Balkans to provide room for growth that will be a protection for us in our future.

    We know not what that future entails, but the actions of Tyrol probably only bear ill tidings of a future where we will be called to unite and protect the lands of ancient Rome. In the meanwhile, we can secure our south, allow our fleet to hold our southern flank. Certainly this will mean allowing Athens to once again experience the greatness of success by joining us (let us be wise and allow them another decade or so to secure their new holdings). We can also work to bring Wallachia into our alliance. This provides at least two positives: 1, a block on both the Ottoman and Hungary; 2, an easy target for the Ottoman to which we could respond.

    Nay, I do not hold back; yes we can use some around us to provide opportunity for us to gain. I say "why not?" Though we would not throw Wallachia or Athens to the wolves, their presence could be critical for getting us into a future situation were we are the mere defender in a war, coming to the aid of our ally. The Infidel is crafty and may grow to fear us and choose, in coming decades, to avoid direct conflict with us. But whilst he has ANY province that is European, we must not lose the vigil. The infidel must be eradicated. Wallachia may provide just that chance in some future moment.

    As for this silly trial, why do we waste time bringing laborious charges against Fodoron? I have nothing more to say about that foolish situation. We have won two great wars and seen our fragile Republic grow. Trust me fellow senators, if we become complacent or waste time on silly internal politically motivated charges, the dogs of war will circle. Do not allow these early victories to blind you. We are still small; a single defeat could cut our nation in two; large enemies are around us. We must be focused and wise and not be wasting time with internal dalliance.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlec
    Senator Dandolo, you did not speak regarding the issue with Count Carmagnola.
    Indeed, Senator Carlec, because such is the duty of the Primo Inquisitor to speak last.

    As well, our civilization and grandeur commands us to respect our rules and laws. And not allowing the accused person to defend itself is in flagrant violation of these laws.

    But you're right : this trial isn't only of Count Carmagnola, but could be extended to the Doge Francesco Foscari and the Capitano Generale Fodoron if such is the will of the Senate, whatever the verdict regarding Carmagnola is.

    Senators, Magistrates, please speak.

    Il Rosso


    *********************
    Fodoron, when do you plan to shift the assignment of Inquisitors ? Immediately after the verdict ?

  7. #227
    A investigation of Captain General Fodoron has already been called for.
    As the issues involve the same two wars as the trial of Carmagnola, I suggest we hold one inquisition into the conduct of the Foreign Affairs of our Republic. We can determine if misconduct has occured, and if we find it has, who bears the responsibility; be it General Carmagnola, Captain General Fodoron, or even Doge Foscari himself.

    I await the opinion of the other Inquisitors, as well as any evidence the Senators wish to offer.

    Respectfully,

    Arturo Ernesto Gandolfi
    Il Nero
    Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum

  8. #228
    Election 9
    1. Dear Friends: Athens, Modena, The Knights, Cyprus, Tuscany, Bavaria, Albania, Bosnia, Austria, Switzerland
    2. Friends: Wallachia, Moldova, Hungary, Castile, Aragon, Portugal
    3. Adversaries: Styria, Papal States, Napoli, Egypt, Kara Koyunlu, Genoa
    4. Ottomans, Tyrol, Savoy
    5. W (while urging extreme caution )
    Fellow Senators,

    The future of our Republic seems clear to me. We face dangers on two fronts: Italy and the Balkans. We must drive the hated Turk out of the Balkans while acting as the protector of all Christians in the eastern Meditteranean. Secondly, we must seek to unify Itlay under our banner.

    Therefore, our immediate enemies are The Ottomans, Tyrol and Savoy. We should seek to add Macedonia, Smyrna, Bulgaria, Lombardy, and Emelia to our Noble Republic. To achieve this, we will need strong allies. I suggest we seek to expand our alliance with whatever nations Captain General Fodoron thinks will offer the most support in these two inevitable wars.

    We must also never neglect a chance to liberate Christians from the infidel. We should keep an eye out for an opportunity to gain Lebanon, Aleppo, Georgia, and Sochi.

    For the near future, I counsel peace in preparation for war. I only vote W because I do not believe in hamstringing the Captain General if a golden opportunity appears.

    Respectfully,

    Senator Arturo Ernesto Gandolfi
    Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum

  9. #229
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    Most Serene Doge, Noble Senators,

    On Count Carmagnola's trial

    I speak before you today to offer you a choice. Whether you want to be proud of the Republic, defend its freedoms against creeping tyranny, and keep her armies strong and ready to face our present dangers. Or walk in shame, knowing you have sold your honor for the protection of powerful and shady men, while leaving the gates wide open to our enemies in the east and north.

    I have been appointed to speak on Count Carmagnola's defense. In fact, I can hardly descry what he should defend himself from, so shady and incongruous the accusations are. What is clear to everyone, instead, is that all the accusations against count Carmagnola can one way or the other be traced back to the Captain General and his acolytes. And it is patent that he has raised this commotion only to distract us from his disastrous handling of our western policy.

    What is exactly the damage that this valiant condottiero has caused to our Republic, I ask. Can anyone point to anything detrimental that proceeded from his actions? Indeed, this session would scarcely be sufficient to enumerate the services he has rendered to us, to the Republic. As senator Norrefeldt asked, is this the way Venice treats her truthful servants?

    He stands accused of putting honor above mean-spirited counsels in the war against Milan, for having released brave prisoners. What was the alternative? Do these senators want to be known as the proud heirs of the Roman Senate, or as a band of shameless ruffians, ready to trample their principles for the slightest advantage?
    Advantage that is for no one to be seen, in any case. Are the banners of Friedrich of Tyrol flying over Milan not enough a demonstration that the Visconti were not to be left totally destitute of military might?

    He stands accused of unnecessary delays during the Greek campaign. It would be ludicrous, if it weren't tragic. The most brilliant military strategist and tactician in Europe is accused of incompetence by this Marino Zen, someone who has never been within 10 leagues of a battlefield, and whose sole skill is adulation of our Captain General. Please, my fellow senators, do not refrain from a loud laughter; it is much needed.

    I call for the immediate acquittal of count Carmagnola, and I propose a generous compensation be offered to him (100 d, only 3 months’ revenue), in the hopes that it might persuade him to forget this humiliating incident and he might remain in our service. While this may cause displeasure to those that are weaving dark webs behind our backs (stab –1), the cost of raising the quality of our troops to the same standards of excellence would be just as great. And with the upcoming struggle in the east, we cannot afford at the moment to forsake our armies and concentrate on the navy.

    Carmagnola event : option C

    On our foreign policy

    Putting this ridiculous affair behind, we need to focus on our present situation. We have won some crucial successes, but this is no time to rest on them.

    Senator Lawkeeper Dandolo, as usual, has spoken wisely. And so have senator Gandolfi, and senator Carlec (though he may be in error on other issues). I cannot but agree with the points they made. I think all senators see clearly that we must fight the Ottomans in the Balkans. Yet, I urge restraint. We have other enemies, the crown of Hungary, in that region, that hate us with no fault of our own. They too would fight against the Ottomans. The young and impetuous would simply expel the Turks from Europe. The wiser, might see the benefit of letting them bleed each other weaker.

    What we must absolutely do is prevent the Turks from moving unimpeded between Asia and Europe. I strongly suggest that two large fleets of ours be stationed permanently in Ionia and Constantinople, ready to block the straits with one day’s notice.

    Election 9
    1. Dear friends: Modena, Athens, Naples, Tuscany, Bavaria, Switzerland, Bosnia
    2. Friends: Wallachia, Cyprus, Aragon, Castile, Dauphiné, Austria
    3. Adversaries: Papal States, Albania, Genoa, Portugal
    4. Enemies: Ottomans, Tyrol, Egypt, Savoy
    5. Peace
    _________________

    - Lordship over nations is bought from Fortune for a price of gold and blood (Leon Battista Alberti 1404-1472) -

  10. #230
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    If any of you is considering being adopted by one of the venetian families, instead of forming his/her own, here is a list of the main ones in alphabetical order:

    The old families are the roman ones that took refuge in the lagoon prior to the year 1000. They were 24. The new ones were the ones present in the consiglio prior to 1297. The recent ones were posterior to 1297 and reached the number of about 150 families.


    Badoer
    Considered the oldest of all, directly descendent from the Partecipazio that gave 7 doges between 811 and 942. They gave 8 magistrates of Saint Mark and 1 cardinal

    Barbarigo
    One of the most prominent "new" families. Gave 2 doges, 10 magistrates and 4 cardinals

    Bembo
    Very old house that gave the doge-admiral Giovanni (1615), and very involved in italian literature through Pietro Bembo.

    Bragadin
    "Old" family related to doge Orso Ipato (726). Owes its celebrity to Marco Antonio, the defender of Famagusta from the Turks, burnt alive in 1571 because he refused to renounce to the christian faith.

    Contarini
    The most important family in Venice history. In addittion to 44 magistrates, gave to the republic the record number of 8 doges.

    Corner
    Very ancient family of roman origin. Had 4 doges, 22 magistrates of Saint Marks, 9 cardinals, two generals and 2 ambassadors of great fame.

    Correr
    "New" family that had 7 magistrates of Saint Marks, and 2 cardinals. One became pope Gregor XII in 1406. Teodoro correr founded the Venetian city museum that carries his name in 1830.

    Dandolo
    Four doges. The first Enrico (1192), turned the fourth crusade into the sack of Constantinople. The last, Andrea (1343), signed a glorious treaty with the turks and conquered Zara after a famous siege.

    Foscari
    At the head of the venetian Pantheon. Famous due to his doge Francesco and his son, whose tragic destiny inspired Byron and Verdi.

    Mocenigo
    7 doges

    Morosini
    4 doges

    Loredan
    3 doges and several admirals.
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  11. #231
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    not in character guys. . . I'm confused by the whole election thing. I thought the role playing with lawkeeper and the other 2 people was about some kind of charge against fodoron. But when I read lawkeeper's and Carmagnola's posts, it seemed they were talking about the game event that we got, about our general. When I posted (in character) about the trial being a waste of time, I meant that charge against Fodoron and so on. I don't think that I would change my vote about the event and so forth, but I didn't know that the "trial" we were putting on was about that. Can somebody clarify for me. Sorry to not know my Venetian history well enough.

    And, ooh, can I be of the Corner family? Is there any website that might shed more light on them for me? I pick them because my last name starts with "C" (sorry, can't do better than that--we are of old poor German barbarian blood) and, as a Christian, I liked the fact of the cardinals. Is that okay?

  12. #232
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    Dear Senator (name missing) Cornero,

    Congratulations on your choice. The Corner family (his members called Cornero or Cornaro) are one of the most noble and rich families of Venice. They hold numerous palaces in the Grand Canal.

    "Who can be found who does not know that the House of Cornaro is the greatest of the world? The House of Cornaro, is it not everywhere?" (Il Ruzante, 1521)

    Currently their main source of income appears to be the sugar:

    "The Cornero family of the fifteenth century first capitalized on the efficiency of centralized factories for refining raw sugar. As the sugar trade spread throughout the Mediterranean, their refineries sprang up in Cyprus, Venice, the Papal States, and Bologna where, as early as 1470, there was a Society of Sugar Refiners." "Cyprus sugar is a reddish-tinted sugar made in the old Venetian mills of the Cornero family."

    Perhaps you wandered why there is sugar in Cyprus, now you know, it is because of your family. In 1366 Federico Cornaro provided financing to Peter I Lusignan, King of Cyprus, receiving in exchange a tax-free fiefdom on the Cypriot peninsula of Episcopi (Piscopia), knighthood, and the right to place in his family crest the lion rampant of the royal house of Cyprus. He and his brothers invested massively upping the production of sugar and becoming filthy rich in the process. Get yourself your family arms in one of the provided links.

    Their association with Cyprus will have important repercussions for our history when we reach Caterina Cornero. But we don't know who she is because she will be born in 1454.

    I recommend you run your searches for ["corner family" venice]. You can start meeting your new family here.

    Regarding the "most secret" proceedings that the inquisitorial tribunal is conducting, initially they referred to the acusations towards your humble servant, doge Francesco Foscarini. But this acusations are mingled with those against Carmagnola. It seems that doge Foscari supported and befriended count Carmagnola because both shared an interest in pursuing aggressive policies against Visconti, and the doge obtained his hiring from the senate. Now they are both acussed, but with a difference. Carmagnola is acused of high treason for his secret ties with Visconti and for pursuing personal goals against the interest of the Repubblica, if found guilty he will be put to death. Doge Foscari is acused of incompetence in conducting external affairs, wars, and trade policies (so far ), if found guilty he will be reprimended, or in the worst case his resignation could be asked.

    The senatorial poll on Carmagnola, although should wait for the hearings, can be entered if a senator has already his mind set. Obviously, in their votes, the senators are asked as always to put the interest of the Serenissima Repubblica above all considerations.

    EDIT: If you are Giorgio Cornaro, then you have a lot to say about Carmagnola, perhaps you have just escaped a milanese prison or been rescued by the Tyrol conquest of Milan.
    Last edited by Fodoron; 03-12-2004 at 21:38.
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  13. #233
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    [still not in character] OK, I think I get all of that Fodoron. I'm not going to be Giorgio since he dies pretty early on and was in prison, apparently for a while. I'll keep my name, but make it Italian--Carlo. So, Senator Carlo Carnero it will be. {here we go}



    Am I to believe my ears? We are seriously going forward with this internal squabble while the world could possibly come down around our beloved land? My brother Giorgio is either dead or captured, once held by Milan but now (if still alive) held by Tyrol. And still we waste time and words here in this Senate.

    Long has my family supported our great Republic. Even now we are attempting to secure a great future for us on the island of Cyprus. Let us be rid of this situation and move forward into more pressing matters.

    Senator Carmagnola, who perhaps has some familial ties that he tells us not about, urges us to honor the captain. He says that little damage was done. Yet, words have reached my ears through our family contacts, attempting to discover the whereabout of my brother, that General Carmagnola was actually SECRETELY NEGOTIATING with the remnants of the Milanese who are, of course working with the leaders of Tyrol. What? do you actually think that all of them failed to land secure positions and are now not working against us?

    Nay, they work eagerly for our destruction! And here we dally with this decision. And we even consider the Doge to be included. Ludicrous.

    Shall we spend the equivalent of one ENTIRE Year's taxes to honor someone who negotiates behind our back? The decision is clear as I have already stated. We gain ducats. We lose a little in morale, yet if we steer a clear peace position for now that will not hurt us. And our strength lies with the navy. We all know this. Why waste time and stability attempting to uphold the army in a manner that actually will undermine us in the long run with vipers who coil gently at one moment and strike at another.

    Senator Carmagnola, you are always reasonable in counsel. Let us move on from this moment.

    Now we must hear from the remainder of you. Your silence is deafening.
    "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried." G.K. Chesterton

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  14. #234
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    We have not heard from the other nero inquisitor, Hastu Moro.

    I heard he was moving to his new palace in the Grand Canal, and it might take him time to settle. I myself have to depart for a short trip. But I am confident that this noble consiglio can move forward at its own pace in the issues that have to be decided.

    Let's not rush in such important issues, and allow senators all the time they need to carefully weigh all the evidence against Carmagnola while they ponder on the difficult international situation that we face. Perhaps we shall find a new ambassador to Bursa, as was requested by "Il Senato"
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  15. #235
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    Senators,
    Carmagnola is gifted and dangerous. He has tried to manipulate his employers, both us and the Visconti. Only the vigilance of our spies in his court made us see clear what a wolf he is. We cannot afford to risk having him slip a knife in our back or his hands deeper into our coffers. He's a condottieri, in the future, he could join the enemies of our Republic.
    Code:
    Event decision 3.
    A. Execute Carmagnola
    It is also time for us to decide the future policies of Venice. The future policies, not the past! We are living in 1432, and already four full months of this year has passed. We should set fast the policy of the next ten years, not a mere 7 years, that is not a long enough time for the Doge to plan our actions.
    Code:
    Election 9. 1432-1442 International Situation
    1. Athens, Modena, Naples, Knights of St. John, Tuscany
    2. Theodoros, Wallachia, Cyprus 
    3. Ottoman Empire
    4. Genoa!
    5. WAR, as soon as our economy allows it.
    Venice has come to be the major protector of the Greeks and their religion. They look to Venice for protection in a way that Slavic people do not. They willingly join our armies, and pay our taxes. Slavs do not, they are strangers to the venetian civilisation! Therefore we should strive to get more areas inhabitated by Greeks, since we can rule them with ease, and good profit of course.

    Talking of profit, this beautiful concept most worthy of our thoughts and prayers, I dare say we have to look further than to this quarrelsome peninsula. Trade is the key to profit, and trade is done overseas. Genoa has a much larger control of trade than do we. They control the trade that flows through Genoa of course, but also all the trade of the Black Sea, through their ownership of Kerch. This single province yields the income of several slavic provinces in the Balkans! Still some senators here seem not to realise this, probably since their personal networks have not yet spread into the Black Sea. But with our control of the Bosporos we hold the key to the Black Sea.
    I urge you fellow senators, we should include the nations of the Black Sea into our reports on foreign matters and plan to protect the Greeks of Kerch and Kaffa, with the valuable trade through Kerch going into our pockets, not the pockets of the Genoese!

    When suggesting friends and possible allies for the coming ten years I have chosen nations that are already good friends, we should not spend money on neutrals when there are so many others we can build alliances with, at much lower costs. I don't think we should initiate wars with the Ottomans, since we have no casus belli. They will attack us sooner or later, and then we'll try to trap them and liberate more Greek lands.
    We should not figh Tyrol right now, their alliance is much to strong, and the profits much lower than trying to get control of Kerch.


    OOC: I take the role of a senator from the Barbarigo family. We aspire to hold the dogeship one day. Our trading interests are all in the east.
    Last edited by Norrefeldt; 04-12-2004 at 16:46.
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  16. #236
    Captain Carmagnola's Avatar
    Deus VultEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine
    EU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions

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    I like the idea of taking other family roles. My nickname is... uh, rather compromising right now. I want to be Mocenigo. To avoid overlapping with future doges, I'll take the name of Gabriele.

    Fodoron, given your position of power, you should consider being Contarini.
    _________________

    - Lordship over nations is bought from Fortune for a price of gold and blood (Leon Battista Alberti 1404-1472) -

  17. #237
    Out-of-Character

    Thanks to Fodoron for that info on the Venetian Families.

    I'm going to stick to my surname, since there is some Italian history to weave in. As far as we can tell, the Dukes of Gandolfi originated in Genoa (some good potential for mixed loyalties). They owned the town of Castel Gandolfo south of Rome until they lost it to the Pope c. 1200, so I can agitate against the Papal States. And my direct ancestors hail from what is the Emilia in EU2 (Parma and Piacenza), so I will be anxious to support the reconquest of tha province. I guess I could try and bring in the Polish side of my family too, but that will only be relevent once we grow this Republic a tad

    Cheers,

    Arthur
    Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum

  18. #238
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    Trade Report
    To: Senators of the consiglio
    From: The Secretary of Economy

    A question has been raised about the wiseness of expending funds from our treasury to pay the travel and installation costs for our merchants. To help clarify this issue that certainly is a little bit over the head of our current doge, I have been asked to give you the following report:

    It has been extensively said that once one reaches level 3, it is the time to start trading. That usually happens around 1500-1540 for most human countries. Our Repubblica has already a trade efficiency over level 3, currently at 54%. We are the most advanced traders in the world. However, two factors from this early age should also be taken into consideration. One is that the high number of nations provide for a fiercer, more competitive environment, and the other is that being our economy smaller, merchant costs represent a comparatively higher part of our income. We do not raise enough money from census taxes to pay for the cost of sending all the merchants available to us, and that is even if we do not have other expenses to cover, like armies, promotions or gifts.

    The conclusion from the following report is that we do raise more money from trade than we spend. The question is if we should sent merchants or not. Wether they are profitable or not is a question of opinion, since through trade, the money goes from our treasure to research (unless minting). When is that transfer worth it is a matter of opinion. Most people agree that transferring 200D from the treasure to make a 100D in research is not worth it. Most people would think that transferring 100D from treasure to make 100D research (i.e. break even) is worth it. When we voted the economic priorities (election 7) the result was that sending merchants was voted as the top priority once the promotions were filled. The following report includes the data used for the calculations and will probably not interest every senator, but only those naturally inclined to trade minutia. The rest can follow the discussions and decide if sending merchants should continue being a priority until the next economical election (1469).

    TRADE REPORT:

    I made a calculation of trade expenses versus return for the period 1419-1425. This is the period we had money to send merchants. It contains a few simplifications, like assuming linear expense and return growths for the period instead of stepwise.
    In 1419 we started with 14 merchants.

    We made an expense of 246D in merchants for the period, sending 31 merchants and placing 22. In that period 7 merchants were lost, bringing the final number to 29. We increased our trade revenue for the period in an estimate 182D with respect to not sending merchants. But the surviving merchants will continue making a revenue in future periods at a rate of about 4D/year each. We can estimate that using the 1425-1431 period when merchant loses were higher and very little placement was done. That comes out at 324D, only for the merchants placed between 1419 and 1425, with an estimate of 9 merchants from the 22 we placed in that period still making money in 1431, versus only 6 from the original 14. In the end we will probably be making 2D in research for every 1D spent in merchants.

    For the above calculations we made several simplifications:
    -used the average cost for placing each merchant
    -used the average benefit from each merchant
    -merchants were placed and lost linearly distributed over each of the six year periods.
    -the merchants lost were proportionally lost from each pool (1419, 1419-1425, 1425-1430) according to their pool size.

    DATA:

    1419:
    Starting monthly trade income = 5.9D
    14 merchants in CoTs

    1419: sent 9 merchants for 77D: 6 succeeded, 3 failed and 1 lost.
    Total +5 merchants
    1420: sent 5 merchants for 29D: 3 succeeded and 2 failed.
    Total +3 merchants
    1421: sent 4 merchants for 36D: 2 succeeded and 2 failed
    Total +2 merchants
    1422: sent 5 merchants for 44D: 4 succeeded and 1 failed
    Total +4 merchants
    1423: sent 5 merchants for 40D: 4 succeeded, 1 failed, and 4 were lost.
    Total +0 merchants
    1424: sent 3 merchants for 20D: 3 succeeded, and 2 were lost.
    Total +1 merchant

    1425:
    Starting monthly trade income = 9.7D
    29 merchants in CoTs

    1425: Sent 4 merchants for 28D: 3 succeeded, 1 failed, and 7 were lost.
    Total -4 merchants
    1426: Sent 3 merchants for 16D: 2 succeeded, 1 failed, and 2 were lost.
    Total -1 merchant
    1427: Sent 4 merchants for 16D: 2 succeeded, 2 failed, and 3 were lost.
    Total -3 merchant
    1428: No merchants sent or lost.
    1429: No merchants sent. 2 lost.

    1430:
    Starting monthly trade income = 8.3D
    19 merchants in CoTs

    1430: No merchants sent. 1 lost
    1431: No merchants sent. 2 lost

    Signed: The Secretary of Economy.
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  19. #239
    Porphyrogenitus Norrefeldt's Avatar

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    I do think we should try to continue trading. It's the very blood of the republic.

    What we do need is to control another market, to get very valuable trade tariffs each year to by merchants from and a cheaper market to send them to. We are second in trade control, Genoa is first! Let it not stay that way.
    The Greeks city of Kerch should be our target, not any Slavic land in the Balkans .
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  20. #240
    Fellow Senators,

    While I agree with Senator Norrefeldt that we must continue to trade, an attack on Genoa now would be most rash and unwise.

    To hope to gain Kerch in a peace treaty, we would have to take Genoa itself.
    As we have no land access to Genoa, this would involve two assault landings, both far away from our home waters. Even if we were to suceed, we could suffer grievous losses to our fleet. Also while our fleet is away, we would be very vulnerable to the Turks.

    Why not maintain a policy of peaceful competition with the Genoese. They are, after all, fellow Italians. It might even be wise to seek a Trade Agreement with them, and someday an alliance. If we could help them gain the Piedmonte, we could use them as a western bulwark to defend Italy against the French.

    Respectfully,

    Senator Arturo Ernesto Gandolfi
    Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum

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