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Thread: The Democratic BAR: Your vote counts

  1. #1
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    The Democratic BAR: Your vote counts

    Join the Democratic BAR


    The Democratic before action report is an EU2 game where everybody gets to participate. It is also an experiment in democracy, where you (the readers) vote on all the policies (domestic, economical, religious, military) that an EU2 game requires from the player.

    The readers decided on November 2004 that we were going to play Venice on very hard/normal in the AGCEEP grand campaign. Then they constituted the Council of Ten or Venetian Senate and became senators. I took the role of the Capitano Generale (chief commander) and of the Doge of Venice, one for the game military point of view and the other for the game historical and political points of view.

    We have two threads. In this one reports are issued about the game, policies and historic events are discussed and voted.

    In the brother thread:

    we post what usually goes into an AAR. A semi-historical account of what takes place in the game.

    You are encouraged to join us at any time to vote in one election, to post your comments and opinions, or to simply say if you like it or not, as in any other AAR. It is not necessary, but if you find yourself enjoying it and want to get into character, you can adopt a Venetian noble family. Here you can find a list with some famous families of Venice.

    A final book that will have both threads narrated into the story of the AAR will be made at the end. If you want to see a sample of how it will look, I hanged a first draft of the first 8 pages here

    This post also constitutes the table of contents of this thread. Below you can navigate easily through the thread:

    A. Rules

    the original rules:
    1. Membership of the council. Everybody can be a member of the council just by posting. One person one vote. Experience schmerience, Peter Ebessen's vote counts as much as a first day recruit. This is democracy.

    2. Field Commander rules (that's me). I will play a maximum of 5 years per session, there is no minimum limit. I will try not to take any decision unless required to play the session. I will have freedom over the armies and navies according to the war strategies outlined by the council. After a session I will issue a report as complete as possible with pics for the council to evaluate performance.

    3. Mechanics of votations. A period of time not inferior to 48 hours and not superior to one week (except vacations or trips) will be opened for discussions after every report. I will then present all the choices to the members and a period of time not inferior to 48 hours and not superior to one week will be opened for casting the votes. The results will be reported with a period of 24 hours for comments or reclamations. After that, the next round of year/s will be played as soon as feasible (we all have families and works to distract us from EU2).

    4. Safevalve clause. I reserve the right of cancellation or postponement if the number of active members in the council drops below five. The democracy becomes an oligarchy.

    5. The game will be played on a vanilla version of EU2. 1.08. I play on a mac, so no betas available. Only scenario available is AGCEEP (version unknown, could be 1.34 or 1.32) in case you want that one.


    Votation rules. Please read them.
    Participant rules Please read them.

    B. Country, game settings and specific policies

    Election 1: Country. Closed. We will be playing Venice
    Election 2: Game settings. Closed. We will be playing at very hard, normal.

    Election 14: War/Peace policies. Closed.

    Election 4: 1419 Hungarian war strategy. Closed. We have to gain Dalmatia.
    Election 8: Byzantine Empire Policy. Closed. We have to conquer Thrace.
    Election 15: War on Saxony. Closed. No war was declared.
    Election 19: The Ottoman Menace. Closed. War was decided.
    Election 20: The Albanian Question. Closed. War and vassalization decided.
    Election 21: War on the Ottoman Empire. Closed. We are to request Macedonia and Kosovo
    Election 26: Defensive war on Tyrol. Closed. We are to request Lombardia
    Election 29: Casus belli on the Ottoman Empire. Closed. We are not to declare war.
    Election 32: Casus belli on Genoa. Closed. War was decided.
    Election 38: The annexion of Albania. Closed. Albania will be annexed.
    Election 40: League of Cambrai Crisis. Closed.
    Election 45: Maps to know the World. Closed.

    C. Game reports
    Here you can review how the game is proceeding. Every 5 years I issue one general report. The summaries are a year by year account on what happened. "Il Senato della Republica Venetiana: Collaborative AAR" usually has more detail and pics.

    1419 Report.
    1419-1423 Summaries.
    1423 Report.
    1424-1428 Summaries.
    1428 Report.
    1429-1433 Summaries.
    1433 Report.
    1434-1438 Summaries.
    1438 Report.
    1439-1443 Summaries.
    1443 Report.
    1444-1448 Summaries.
    1448 Report.
    1449-1453 Summaries.
    1453 Report.
    1454-1458 Summaries.
    1458 Report.
    1459-1463 Summaries.
    1463 Report.
    1464-1468 Summaries.
    1468 Report.
    1469-1473 Summaries.
    1473 Report.
    1474-1478 Summaries.
    1478 Report.
    1479-1483 Summaries.
    1483 Report.
    1484-1488 Summaries.
    1488 Report.
    1489-1493 Summaries.
    1493 Report.
    1494-1498 Summaries.
    1498 Report.
    1499-1503 Summaries.
    1503 Report.
    1504-1508 Summaries.
    1508 Report.
    1509-1513 Summaries.
    1513 Report.
    1514-1518 Summaries.
    1518 Report.
    1519-1523 Summaries.
    1523 Report.
    1524-1528 Summaries.
    1528 Report.
    1529-1533 Summaries.
    1533 Report.
    1534-1538 Summaries.
    1538 Report.
    1539-1543 Summaries.
    1543 Report.
    1544-1548 Summaries.
    1548 Report.


    D. Scheduled elections

    Election 3: 1419-1439 Domestic policies. Closed.
    Election 12: 1449-1469 Domestic policies. Closed.
    Election 27: 1479-1499 Domestic policies. Closed.
    Election 37: 1509-1529 Domestic policies. Closed.
    Election 48: 1539-1559 Domestic policies. Closed.
    Election 5: 1419-1429 International policies. Closed.
    Election 9: 1429-1439 International policies. Closed.
    Election 10: 1439-1449 International policies. Closed.
    Election 13: 1449-1459 International policies. Closed.
    Election 18: 1459-1469 International policies. Closed.
    Election 22: 1469-1479 International policies. Closed.
    Election 28: 1479-1489 International policies. Closed.
    Election 30: 1489-1499 International policies. Closed.
    Election 34: 1499-1509 International policies. Closed.
    Election 36: 1509-1519 International policies. Closed.
    Election 41: 1519-1529 International policies. Closed.
    Election 43: 1529-1539 International policies. Closed.
    Election 47: 1539-1549 International policies. Closed.
    Election 6: 1419-1444 Research priorities. Closed.
    Election 11: 1444-1469 Research priorities. Closed.
    Election 23: 1469-1499 Research priorities. Closed.
    Election 33: 1499-1529 Research priorities. Closed.
    Election 17: Manufactory decision. Closed.
    Election 7: 1419-1469 Economic priorities. Closed.
    Election 24: 1469-1519 Economic priorities. Closed.
    Election 42: 1519-1549 Economic priorities. Closed.
    Election 31: Extraordinary expenditures. Closed
    Election 35: Trade Diplomacy. Closed.
    Election 44: Military Research priorities. Closed.
    Election 46: Economical Choices and more. Closed.
    Election 39: 1515-1565 Long Term Goals. Closed.

    E. Open elections. You can participe here.

    Election 48b: Offensiveness Domestic policy. Still Open.
    Election 49: 1549-1559 International policies. Still Open.
    Last edited by Fodoron; 27-05-2005 at 15:22. Reason: Will update links to elections, reports...
    AGCEEP High Council Member

    You can be a senator of the Serenissima Republic of Venice.
    Come to the Democratic BAR and vote to have your policies implemented.

    Download the second version of the Introductory guide to EU2.
    The best stand-alone guide for EU2.

  2. #2
    Ammiratus ammiratorum Hastu Neon's Avatar
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    I'm in. Let's go, you'll be my LONGA MANUS.
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  3. #3
    Porphyrogenitus Norrefeldt's Avatar

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    I'll be your pontifex, lets hope for an auspicious game.
    I vote for Ottoman Empire, mapstealing and trading it's way east into the Indian Ocean and muslim Indonesia. I don't know if we might suggest strategies or if it will be a democratic shortsighted mess At least OE would be nice, there is a lot to do.
    AGCEEP High Council Member The great unified mod - AGCEEP 1.57
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  4. #4
    Major HoChiMinh's Avatar

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    I wanna be in. I too think OE would be really nice.
    Have MSN? Want another contact?
    purplelord.insane@gmail.com

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  5. #5
    Banned

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    Great idea, I petition to come in.

    And since my fellow Council Members have already started, I propose the Serenissima, Republic of Venice.

    You would be the Doge (off course), and we the Council of the Ten would survey your action, and see to the security of the Republic.

  6. #6
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    Refrain from proposing countries, please. There will be seven days to do that, and for proposing first you don't get a higher chance.

    Regarding strategy, Norrefeld, it was here:


    Quote Originally Posted by Fodoron
    The council decides the rules, the country to play, the wars to declare, the game strategy,...
    Wether I am able to implement or not remains to be seen. I will try.
    AGCEEP High Council Member

    You can be a senator of the Serenissima Republic of Venice.
    Come to the Democratic BAR and vote to have your policies implemented.

    Download the second version of the Introductory guide to EU2.
    The best stand-alone guide for EU2.

  7. #7
    General Rythin's Avatar
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    Me wants to be in. Me votes for Navarra, Gotland, The Knights or Flandern.
    Stay cool,
    Rythin

  8. #8
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    This is a great success. We have already the minimum number of council members. Lets start. These are the voting rules from now on

    Votation Rules:

    To cast your vote make a post sourrounded by quoting marks with only the required information:

    -First indicate election number
    -Then write down question numbers followed by choice letter
    -Write any comments outside the quote box.

    A question mark indicates a vote in blank for that choice. Anything you don't want to chose put a question mark.

    You can edit your post before closing of the election, but you must state what is edited and why, otherwise your vote will be invalid. The date and time of closing will be set by those of a post of mine indicating so. Any editing or voting afterwards will not be taking into account and may invalidate your vote if precedes the counting. Do not worry if you miss an election. There will be lots of them as long as we keep it interesting.

    Last edit: to request the ballot to be placed within quote box
    Last edited by Fodoron; 10-11-2004 at 13:35. Reason: Formatting to highlight
    AGCEEP High Council Member

    You can be a senator of the Serenissima Republic of Venice.
    Come to the Democratic BAR and vote to have your policies implemented.

    Download the second version of the Introductory guide to EU2.
    The best stand-alone guide for EU2.

  9. #9
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    Election 1. Country.

    Country votation:

    To make sure the election gets the majority of votes, we will make it in two rounds, making sure the preferences of the majority are respected and are not lost due to excesive spread of votes.

    This is probably the most important decission. Before voting think for a little while about the tipe of game you will like to participate (be ready to accept other majoritarian decision). If you choose an isolated pagan, it may turn into a boring game, but it is up to you, I accept any choice. Do not rush and think again on how the game might evolve and the type of things you will like to see (diplomacy, wars, religion, exploration, colonization, technology...). When you are sure you are ready to vote.

    Please vote on the following:

    Part I, general preferences (they don't have to be absolutely coherent)

    1. 1419 size of preferred country (my grouping is not exactly as that of the game)
    A. Minor (1-3 provinces)
    B. Small (4-7 provinces)
    C. Large (8-12 provinces)
    D. Huge (over 12 provinces)

    2. 1419 religion of country
    A. Christian
    B. Muslim
    C. Exotic (hindu or confutionism)
    D. Pagan

    3. 1419 location of country capital
    A. Europe
    B. Africa
    C. Asia
    D. Americas

    4. Scenario
    A. Plain vanilla
    B. AGCEEP

    Part II

    5. Write two countries that you would like played (they don't have to agree with part I). Just the names. They have to be alive in 1419 (AGCEEP countries are elegible). Write only one if you don't have two.

    Part III Comments. Anything you want to say that might convince other voters.

    To make my life easier, a vote should look like:
    Election 1
    1A, 2C, 3A, 4?
    5 Lalaland, Whowholand
    If we play a country in the america's we will die of boredom before we are discovered...
    A question mark indicates a vote in blank. Anything you don't want to chose put a question mark. I will compute the general preferences and discard any proposed country that does not fulfill the two most voted entries for each preference. For example if 48% want Europe, and 31% Asia, any african or american country will be discarded. I will then present the results with the list of elegible countries for a second election.

    PS. This election is closed.

    Given that a country has 80% of support. A second round is unnecessary.

    The results are:
    1. Small country (14/19)
    2. Christian (20/20)
    3. European (20/20)
    4. AGCEEP (10/18)

    The country chosen is Venice (16/20). Second choice was a far distant Denmark (3/20).
    Last edited by Fodoron; 15-11-2004 at 10:40. Reason: Formatting to highlight
    AGCEEP High Council Member

    You can be a senator of the Serenissima Republic of Venice.
    Come to the Democratic BAR and vote to have your policies implemented.

    Download the second version of the Introductory guide to EU2.
    The best stand-alone guide for EU2.

  10. #10
    Dux Slaviensis robin74's Avatar

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    Let me in (and I'm going to vote now, without waiting for your agreement if you don't mind )

    Election 1
    1B, 2A, 3A, 4A
    5 Venice
    I'm with lawkeeper on this one. You want a democratic game, let's play a republic then. Medium sized, Latin tech, so that we don't screw up too much Vote for plain EU2 - I don't know much about the mods.

    BTW, OE has a capital in Europe, not in Asia. Check how the continents are defined in EU2 - and being a European rather than Asian power has some consequences.
    Last edited by robin74; 10-11-2004 at 13:32. Reason: 1) To specify the election number 2)To put the quote box around the vote
    "The answer to your question is 42". Deep Thought
    Playing EU2 1.07, February 7 beta, no mods, VH/N

  11. #11
    General Ericus1's Avatar
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    If I can get in on this too:

    1. B, 2. A, 3. A, 4. B.

    I have to say I like Venice too. A lot of possibilities, decent starting position and cultures, lots of danger. So many different goals we could set.

    If not Venice, how about one of the Orders (Teutons or Livonians). Guess that's three countries.

  12. #12
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    Quote Originally Posted by robin74
    Let me in (and I'm going to vote now, without waiting for your agreement if you don't mind )

    BTW, OE has a capital in Europe, not in Asia. Check how the continents are defined in EU2 - and being a European rather than Asian power has some consequences.
    Election 1 is open now.

    I knew this was going to bring trouble, since most people do not know where continental boundaries go in EU2.
    For this particular election, east of the Bosphorus is Asia. Muscovy and Lithuania are in Europe, Golden horde and OE are in Asia (Just bear with me will you?)
    AGCEEP High Council Member

    You can be a senator of the Serenissima Republic of Venice.
    Come to the Democratic BAR and vote to have your policies implemented.

    Download the second version of the Introductory guide to EU2.
    The best stand-alone guide for EU2.

  13. #13
    Dux Slaviensis robin74's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fodoron
    I knew this was going to bring trouble, since most people do not know where continental boundaries go in EU2.
    I could post a map with the Europe - Asia boundary

    I'm not going to sabotage the vote - but as mentioned before, in EU2 the difference between a European and Asian country has serious implications, and whether the country is one or the other is not defined by the boundary you proposed. I'm just saying - from the game point of view, it makes more sense to ask whether we would like the country to be considered European by the EU2 then whether we prefer to have a capital East of Bosporus.

    But you're the boss here. Feel free to tell me to remove this post if you think it causes too much confusion.
    "The answer to your question is 42". Deep Thought
    Playing EU2 1.07, February 7 beta, no mods, VH/N

  14. #14
    Amnistiado por viejuno

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    Quote Originally Posted by robin74
    But you're the boss here. Feel free to tell me to remove this post if you think it causes too much confusion.
    No, you all are the bosses here. I will not impose anything that is not absolutely requiered to keep going. Let it as it is. People voting for OE should vote for Asia, but since OE is a special case, I'll make sure it doesn't fall through the cracks of the rules if people chose OE as one of the countries and Europe as continent.
    AGCEEP High Council Member

    You can be a senator of the Serenissima Republic of Venice.
    Come to the Democratic BAR and vote to have your policies implemented.

    Download the second version of the Introductory guide to EU2.
    The best stand-alone guide for EU2.

  15. #15
    Ammiratus ammiratorum Hastu Neon's Avatar
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    Election 1.
    Part I: 1A, 2A, 3A, 4B
    Part II: Naples or Ak Koyunlu
    Part III: A comment on my second choice Ak Koyunlu: I suppose they (or Qara Koyunlu, I'm not sure) can become OE, don't they? Anyway, I suggest any minor that can become OE, it would be interesting...
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  16. #16
    Dux Slaviensis robin74's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hastu Neon
    Part III: A comment on my second choice Ak Koyunlu: I suppose they (or Qara Koyunlu, I'm not sure) can become OE, don't they? Anyway, I suggest any minor that can become OE, it would be interesting...
    One of the Sheeps (Qara Koyunlu, I think), can become Persia, but I don't think anybody can become Turkey.
    "The answer to your question is 42". Deep Thought
    Playing EU2 1.07, February 7 beta, no mods, VH/N

  17. #17
    General Rythin's Avatar
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    Election 1
    1A, 2A, 3A, 4A
    5 Navarra, The Knights
    Comments: The Knights rulez, great cultures, poor starting position, almost uncaptureable capital... :-) I strongly recommend not picking any pagans, it will be hard to play them with this AAR.
    Stay cool,
    Rythin

  18. #18
    Banned GoblinCookie's Avatar

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    1B, 2A, 3A, 4A
    5 Venice

    Plenty of action, plenty of stolen artwork and a leader elected by an obscure and immesely complicated process, should fit this thread really well

  19. #19
    Second Lieutenant gordo.p's Avatar

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    (Submitting membership application with vote)

    Election 1
    1B,2A,3A,4A
    5 Venice, Denmark
    I think that the version played is more important for this exercise than the country. Keeping us in Vanilla 1.08 would make the game accessible for more players.
    The great issues of the day are not decided through speeches and majority resolutions, but through blood and iron.

    --Otto von Bismark

  20. #20
    Second Lieutenant gordo.p's Avatar

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    Democratic BAR was a great idea. If you can post screenshots, I think it would help draw people into the game. Thanks for taking on this project.
    The great issues of the day are not decided through speeches and majority resolutions, but through blood and iron.

    --Otto von Bismark

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