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Thread: The ahistoric association.

  1. #1

    The ahistoric association.

    *Introduction:*

    After reading these forums a bit I noticed a large amount of fan made groups. Some of them based on a mod (AGC-EEP, CORE...) but some of them based on nothing else than a group of likely minded people (HOI worst players club, etc...). And as these mod-groups (Mod as in not moderator but a modification) drive more historic and more directed gameplay it seems that they are the majority, purely through their larger scale of publicity. And as such I would like to bring forward us who believe in freedom of gameplay.


    *Objectives:*

    1.Driving the cause of a well balanced and independent game engine, that is able to represent the issues currently represented by events.

    2.Assuring the freedom of using "directed gameplay" (AI files, events, hardcodings..) to everyone. Thus we endorse a larger variety of options.



    How do I join?

    Just type the line of "Member of the ahistoric association" to your signature, and type in something to this thread to make you a fully acknowledged and thus eligible member.


    What is the purpose for this group? To oppose CORE?

    No. We do not oppose CORE, we just hold the voice of those who do not want to play a "historic game" but those who want to begin a scenario and within some lines (Game engine, map and technologies at the moment) to play a game of their liking.


    Cool ahistoricism! Can we do laser pistols?

    No. Again this is not intended as a mod of any kind, just a "political party", a faction to be reckoned. We understand that Paradox boards are not a democracy, but we also know that games are made by the rules set by us, the gamers, the buyers, and as such we are here for publicity, ie. To show that people like us exist. We endorse different technology trees as long as they can be accessed by all nations freely. (No special techs as per nation or anything "forced-history" like that.)


    Members:

    -Idealist, Roffkaiser, Suvorov, Robert Soyka, ErwinRommel, Dawnfire, DarthMaur, Panzeh, Phystarstk, Grosshaus, Daedalus, Wämö, RonnieS, Ratrick, Mozart41st, C.N., Tom Servo, FERT, GrIzZmO, Earl Uhtred, Hardstuff, Gunnl, Magic Pancake, PriestOfDiscord, MegaPIMP, herm, Mindmelter, DivineShadow, Asudulayev, Estonianzulu, Jepsus, Fredward, Hupie, Lord Asharak, HoChiMinh, Dr Bloodmoney, Kriegspieler, Lasse Nielsen, northern_duke, czar1111, Quintus Fabius, Chaingun, CCM von Hausser.




    (Moderators: Feel free to add members as/if they appear. Also if possible in any way, pin this topic to ensure visibility of our cause.)

    When I speak of "we" I mean the community, so if you beg to differ on some point, please do. I claim no expert in any field, nor do I even claim "leadership" in this group. I am merely trying to gain support for my point of view.
    Last edited by idealist; 18-10-2004 at 16:49.
    "The dealer of ist"

    Member and founder of the ahistoric association.

  2. #2
    Lt. General Soapy Frog's Avatar
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    You sure are an Idealist!

  3. #3
    Domesticos Quivis's Avatar
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    Oh my God "ahistoric association" Someone plizzzzzz kill these HERETICS
    "I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter into your country
    and shall make war against you in all ways and manners that we can, and shall subject you
    to the yoke and obedience of the Church and of Their Highnesses. We shall take you and
    your wives and your children, and shall make slaves of them, and as such shall sell and
    dispose of them as Their Highnesses may command. And we shall take your goods, and shall
    do you all the mischief and damage that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse
    to receive their lord and resist and contradict him."

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant Roffkaiser's Avatar

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    So wait...is this going to be a mod or just a style of players? If it is just a style of players sign me up. (Hail the Irish Empire!)
    "Fly and fight until the war is over or you are dead"-Luftwaffe motto towards the end.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Roffkaiser
    So wait...is this going to be a mod or just a style of players? If it is just a style of players sign me up. (Hail the Irish Empire!)
    Your sign up has been notified. Just put the "Member of the ahistoric association" to your sig, and you are "in da club".

    EDIT: Also, just a style of players. No mod.
    "The dealer of ist"

    Member and founder of the ahistoric association.

  6. #6
    The Beast from the East Suvorov's Avatar
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    Q: I want the start of a scenario to be as close as history as possible. I want the AI to do to things that are at least historically plausible (i.e., no Rumanians taking over Venezuela) and humans to be restrained so that vastly unhistorical outcomes are only possible with the big players (no WC by a human-controlled Belgium), acknowledging the fact that it's very difficult to balance the game in such a way a human-controlled Germany/USA/USSR etc. won't be able to go for WC. Do my views coincide with this "ahistoric association"?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Suvorov
    Q: I want the start of a scenario to be as close as history as possible. I want the AI to do to things that are at least historically plausible (i.e., no Rumanians taking over Venezuela) and humans to be restrained so that vastly unhistorical outcomes are only possible with the big players (no WC by a human-controlled Belgium), acknowledging the fact that it's very difficult to balance the game in such a way a human-controlled Germany/USA/USSR etc. won't be able to go for WC. Do my views coincide with this "ahistoric association"?
    You are excactly within the lines of our association. We want a reasonable AI, a game engine that prevents AI Estonia from conquering the world, and of course difficulty enough to prevent a human Estonia from a WC aswell.

    What we don`t want is USSR DOWing a one province minor Germany only because it was hardocded to do so. What we don`t want is crippled one province Germany gaining extreme bonuses only because of its name tag. What we don`t want is Fascist France and Germany to be allies until 1940 and then suddendly going to war due to some obscene event.

    We want the possibility and borders of making history, not just playing it.



    I thus think I can count you in.
    "The dealer of ist"

    Member and founder of the ahistoric association.

  8. #8
    HOI2 Arma Patch Prj Manager coreymas's Avatar
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    Typically in the past I have been historical however once I start playing I become ahistorical.

    Thus when I start playing a scenerio I cannot be part of this group but once I am in the game I am able to join because I take ahistorical paths. But then just after that I become historical again because in a previous game i started off historicallly and continued by following ahistorical paths thus establishing that I am a historical person.

    Catch 22 here - Sterilize -- cannot compute..... shuts down...

    Corey
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  9. #9
    HOI2 Arma Patch Prj Manager coreymas's Avatar
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    Idealist,

    I am sorry for the joke that I just posted, It just reminded me so much of a Star Trek episode.

    If you are trying to form a group that wants HOI2 to by default have plausible historical elements without restricting the player to choose different paths then you can sign me up.

    I do however enjoy and applaud all of the Modders who create historical (and non-historical what-ifs) to HOI (and in the future HOI2). All of these Mods just reinforce the flexability of HOI which is rarely found in other games of the genre.

    As always my humble opinion,

    Corey
    Corey
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    All in good time... All in good time.... In reference to patches.

    I Git thar the fastest with the mostest........... Lieutenant General Nathan Bedford Forrest

    "Can not run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This is wrong tool."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by coreymas
    Idealist,

    I am sorry for the joke that I just posted, It just reminded me so much of a Star Trek episode.

    If you are trying to form a group that wants HOI2 to by default have plausible historical elements without restricting the player to choose different paths then you can sign me up.

    I do however enjoy and applaud all of the Modders who create historical (and non-historical what-ifs) to HOI (and in the future HOI2). All of these Mods just reinforce the flexability of HOI which is rarely found in other games of the genre.

    As always my humble opinion,

    Corey

    Oh no pun taken.

    And I do too aplaud for the makers of CORE and AGC-EEP, and I even play the MODs (AGC-EEP and VIP) on most of the time. But there are times when I wished I could do it more freely, especially in short games, that most HOI-games seem to be. And 99% of the times I wished I could just turn off the events and still see a farily reasonable and logic game (Estonia not conquering the world)

    And as for my intentions:

    I am trying to form a group that endorses a game engine that can do everything on its own.

    The ideal situation for "The Ahistoric Association" is no need for events. (Note "no need", not "no", we do not want to take events away completely, just make them optionable (EVENTS ON/OFF at the options menu))



    EDIT: If by "plausible historic elements" you mean the situation at the start of the scenario and tech tree then we see eye to eye.

    Ie. The Ahistoric Association is against: Historic tag defined events, Historic tag defined AIs. ie. We don`t want Germany to recieve something from an event just because its TAG is GER and the year happens to be 1941.
    "The dealer of ist"

    Member and founder of the ahistoric association.

  11. #11
    M de la Marine et des Colonies Dayvit781's Avatar

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    I think this is what the game developers are trying to do, but just there are certain limitations with the engine that are made up for with events. As far as CORE, it's to put flavor into the game if you want to play historical and have a few alternate history things.

    I suppose I would gree, but don't sign me up yet. Because what I mainly want are the options... turn on/off etc. With CORE now, it's easy... just don't use CORE when you want it off. But for HOI2, I really wish they will have options available before you start the game - HISTORIC yes/no. etc... the more choices the better.
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  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant Robert Soyka's Avatar

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    I Join you!

    I would realy like to play as germany without starting a war by myself.
    Only because I AM GERMANY everyone declares war on me...!
    It ist OK, if Stalin attacks me, if I have no allies and seem to be weak.
    But I hate it when france declares war on my, only because their warentry-score reaches 100%.
    Why is their WE 100%? An event forced a french-british attcking of Italy because of its War against greece ( That is OK ). Then the western allies ANNEXED (!!!) Italy! But their Warentry was at 100 and so the hardcoded AI declared war on me!
    What have I done wrong? I NEVER send resources to Italy, I never supported them with tech! Checheslowakia still exists, as well as Poland!

    A peaceful Germany should be an ahistorical, but possible Option....

  13. #13
    Captain ErwinRommel's Avatar

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    Count me in

    Yep, count me in - I like the possibilities
    O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
    But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,—
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.


    Member of the ahistoric association

  14. #14
    Second Lieutenant Roffkaiser's Avatar

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    I would also like to see events to be an option in the case of the monroe docterine. I was playing as Argentina invading surrounding countrys gaining power as i went, America kept declairing war via the Monroe Docterine which didn't bother me because i would just sue for peace everytime. But i joined the Axis, and the Allies Declared war on me, and the USA declared war on them via the Monroe docterine. Which i thought was a good idea until the USA started taking over the world. This is how realistic events turn out to have very unrealistic results. It wouldn't be so bad if the events were more flexible, considering the US would never invade Britain over South America, and France would never declare war on a peaceful Germany (they already wanted to avoid war.) So the events need to be more flexible or need a on off switch.
    "Heil AhA"
    "Fly and fight until the war is over or you are dead"-Luftwaffe motto towards the end.

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant Dawnfire's Avatar
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    I'm definitely in.

    A big part of the joy in playing Hoi for me is to see things turn out totally differently, imagine in my head how the history books would recount the alternate reality, to win the war with something else than Allies.

    It's perhaps not nice to see Estonia take over the world, but I also definitely like that most semi-large smaller countries would have a good chance of subduing some other smaller neighbors and affecting the general war a lot.

  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant Dawnfire's Avatar
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    An addition to previous: Nothing is more fun than to read AARs where a country like Siam (regards to Semi-Lobster) rises to a world power. It should be possible. Furthermore, I don't see what the fun is to play so , that everything you don't immediately affect yourself turns out precisely as any history book will tell you.

    Also, in a way, excepting nations like Bhutan and such who are there just for completion's sake, which is admirable, why have smaller nations as playable if you can't lift them to at least some greatness??

    And the hard-coded war declarations are annyoing. The bad thing for Germany was among other bad things, that its idiot leader practically rushed towards war and then was not prepared for it when war came, and never really was (until perhaps 1944, when it was too late). The Idiot of Germany had no war plan, and no armaments plan. If a human player wishes to be well prepared, could he not by some diplomatic means wait to start the war until 1944, or something, if he wishes?
    Last edited by Dawnfire; 07-07-2004 at 14:15.

  17. #17
    Minister of Peace for Europe Moderator Grosshaus's Avatar
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    EU2 EEP - AGP revisited it seems. I join the AGP=ahistoric association side.
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  18. #18
    Grandpa Maur DarthMaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayvit781
    I think this is what the game developers are trying to do, but just there are certain limitations with the engine that are made up for with events. As far as CORE, it's to put flavor into the game if you want to play historical and have a few alternate history things.
    Fortunately, you are right. I would prefer if they did not change the attitude because there seem to be overhelming support for the other way. So, Idealist can count me in-although i am not putting anything in my sig

  19. #19
    Added new members,

    Some clarification:

    We want all nation-tag-tied issues away. This includes scrapping all historic events, hardcoded bonuses, special and hidden technologies, and such...

    Germany in the game should not be condemned by our history, not further than the starting scenario condemns it.


    Random events are good, at least in my opinion.
    "The dealer of ist"

    Member and founder of the ahistoric association.

  20. #20
    Hey, just play vanilla HoI. Barring laser pistols, How much more ahistorical do want to be?

    Seriously, I think you people have a point concerning "forced-history" events. There's no point playing a game that becomes a reenactment of the actual war, we need to maintain freedom of action on a strategic level. However I think the game should try to reflect the consequences of those actions.

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