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1419: New Order II

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World Conqueror said:
Eh...no, you cant blame it all, like most of you do, on HG. Hive has a part in this too, and annexing 2 german minors in the end of session wasnt either the most clever thing to do. I think he have to take the consuequenses of those annexations, or simply editing them out. And you cannot go in editing something as soon as it gets unbalanced(and No, I aint saying this because im Burgundy). I can agree on editing out those annexations and take away 12 BB(not as vassals that is), but half? In my oppinion, No.
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No I agree, Slargos' suggestion is too drastic. And like I already said: this is mainly my own fault. I could have expanded more slowly. Of course, if I had done that then Denmark, Sweden, Burgundy and OE would have taken most of Germany - but eh... that's why I did what I did.
 
World Conqueror said:
Eh...no, you cant blame it all, like most of you do, on HG. Hive has a part in this too, and annexing 2 german minors in the end of session wasnt either the most clever thing to do. I think he have to take the consuequenses of those annexations, or simply editing them out. And you cannot go in editing something as soon as it gets unbalanced(and No, I aint saying this because im Burgundy). I can agree on editing out those annexations and take away 12 BB(not as vassals that is), but half? In my oppinion, No.
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Of course you can. We can do whatever we like.

Wether you like it or not is of course another question.

I say slash it in half.
 
Slargos said:
Of course you can. We can do whatever we like.

Wether you like it or not is of course another question.

I say slash it in half.
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I'm currently leaning towards "no edits at all", but I'll think about it...
 
Slargos said:
Of course you can. We can do whatever we like.

Wether you like it or not is of course another question.

I say slash it in half.
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"We"? You meen Hive, he is GM, not you.
 
Owen said:
He says "we" because Hive feels he's too much of an interested party, so wants advice.
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Indeed. I don't want to make a biased situation - although I probably will do exactly that, but not biased in my favour...
 
Hive said:
No I agree, Slargos' suggestion is too drastic. And like I already said: this is mainly my own fault. I could have expanded more slowly. Of course, if I had done that then Denmark, Sweden, Burgundy and OE would have taken most of Germany - but eh... that's why I did what I did.
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Hmm, I must say I resent that implication. Expansion in Germany is not what it could've been, I didn't move a fin this session. I've purposely played very restrictively, I don't even think I have a single BB point. I could've done a OE into North Germany but didn't as to not upset game balance.

This recent force annexation spree is unnecessary and I have conveyed my apprehensions to Hive. I'd feel mighty uncomfortable having such a big Austria rubbing up against me and the fact that Novgorod advocates an even stronger Austria on Danish expense is hardly surprising. The rumours from the hostile Novgorodians - that Denmark will be the new Brandenburg is pure propaganda.

That being said I do feel that Austria should get a reduction in BB! However this should be as a means to stop the BB war and give Austria long needed rest, not to encourage further annextions in Northern Germany. And Hive, it's OK to make selfish edits as long as they're for the good of the game. I trust we humble players are more mature than you give us credit for. :)
 
Vricklund said:
Hmm, I must say I resent that implication. Expansion in Germany is not what it could've been, I didn't move a fin this session. I've purposely played very restrictively, I don't even think I have a single BB point. I could've done a OE into North Germany but didn't as to not upset game balance.

This recent force annexation spree is unnecessary and I have conveyed my apprehensions to Hive. I'd feel mighty uncomfortable having such a big Austria rubbing up against me and the fact that Novgorod advocates an even stronger Austria on Danish expense is hardly surprising. The rumours from the hostile Novgorodians - that Denmark will be the new Brandenburg is pure propaganda.

That being said I do feel that Austria should get a reduction in BB! However this should be as a means to stop the BB war and give Austria long needed rest, not to encourage further annextions in Northern Germany. And Hive, it's OK to make selfish edits as long as they're for the good of the game. I trust we humble players are more mature than you give us credit for. :)
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First: whether or not Denmark does assert itself in north germany, it is only filling the void left by a lack of a BB. We also must remember that Danish expansion (tho hypothetical) into north germany is not as drastic as in other games because Denmark is NOT the ruler of a united scandinavia.

Second: I agree with slashing Hives (Austria's) bb because it will cause some serious tension as far as investing in stab goes. Austria needs time to recuperate after being mangled by Brandenburg. However, completely wiping Austria clean of any bb is quite dramatic (and i know Hive has said he DOESNT support this) especially since the bb was not increased in vain and austria is significanly larger.


All and all it was an excellent session (if not a little short, but heh, i always think that :D )
 
Vricklund said:
Hmm, I must say I resent that implication. Expansion in Germany is not what it could've been, I didn't move a fin this session. I've purposely played very restrictively, I don't even think I have a single BB point. I could've done a OE into North Germany but didn't as to not upset game balance.
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All I'm saying is that if I would just lay low with maybe 4-5 provinces for many years, unable to expand because HG turned the whole fricking area into 1-province minors - then my neighbours, who are already much stronger, will surpass me for good.

The only reason I still exist is because Owen is being nice and letting me get back on my feet again. If he was more aggressive, both me and Venice would probably be dead now.

Anyway, the model I'm currently considering now is this: reduction of BB and release of some vassals.
 
Vricklund said:
Hmm, I must say I resent that implication. Expansion in Germany is not what it could've been, I didn't move a fin this session. I've purposely played very restrictively, I don't even think I have a single BB point. I could've done a OE into North Germany but didn't as to not upset game balance.

This recent force annexation spree is unnecessary and I have conveyed my apprehensions to Hive. I'd feel mighty uncomfortable having such a big Austria rubbing up against me and the fact that Novgorod advocates an even stronger Austria on Danish expense is hardly surprising. The rumours from the hostile Novgorodians - that Denmark will be the new Brandenburg is pure propaganda.

That being said I do feel that Austria should get a reduction in BB! However this should be as a means to stop the BB war and give Austria long needed rest, not to encourage further annextions in Northern Germany. And Hive, it's OK to make selfish edits as long as they're for the good of the game. I trust we humble players are more mature than you give us credit for. :)
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Uhm. No one is "implicating" anything.

You are perfectly allowed to do whatever you want ingame.

Fact is that if Austria doesn't return to its historical power, OE will have a walkover in germany and you'll see a muslim Vienna before soon. While the possibility is always acceptable, it would be good to not see it in the 16th century.
 
Hive said:
All I'm saying is that if I would just lay low with maybe 4-5 provinces for many years, unable to expand because HG turned the whole fricking area into 1-province minors - then my neighbours, who are already much stronger, will surpass me for good.

The only reason I still exist is because Owen is being nice and letting me get back on my feet again. If he was more aggressive, both me and Venice would probably be dead now.
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I didn't once consider attacking Austria last session, since she was still too far away, and only controls one OE core province (Istria) anyway. I did briefly consider attacking Venice at the start of the session, and one of the main reasons I did not was so she could help fight off Bohemia etc. and get Austria back into some semblance of order.
Anyway, the model I'm currently considering now is this: reduction of BB and release of some vassals.
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As discussed last night, my preferred actions are either no change, or editing BB down to 20 and releasing Hessen, Bavaria and Wuerzburg as vassals. That solution would also include removing all Austria's current wars, so she can't go and take core provinces from Hungary straight away for zero BB.
 
Hive said:
All I'm saying is that if I would just lay low with maybe 4-5 provinces for many years, unable to expand because HG turned the whole fricking area into 1-province minors - then my neighbours, who are already much stronger, will surpass me for good.
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Yes the legasy of HoG is realy annoying instead of leaving big Bra for ai to conquer he greated huge amount of one province minors that meant realy bad situation for Austria as more nations to dow it and to get anything a lot of BB doing so.

Yes its partly Hives fault but what HoG did just before ending to made German total mess and hard for anyone to take opportunity of falling Bra is major reason for Austrias bad boy and he should get it reduced or he will never see peace and wont be able to affect any player politic before all ai has been taken out unless Ottomans or someother neighbor decides to take Austria out.
 
Rezag said:
Yes the legasy of HoG is realy annoying instead of leaving big Bra for ai to conquer he greated huge amount of one province minors that meant realy bad situation for Austria as more nations to dow it and to get anything a lot of BB doing so..
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This does seem to be the reason for it.

Ok. I think we've heard enough arguments. Let's put it to a vote:

Line A, the soft line: Edit Austrian BB down for size substantially. No other edits.
Line B, the middle way: Edit Austria BB down for size. Release some vassals.
Line C, the hard line: No edits for Austria. Take it like a man juu pussified Jutlander!
 
Poland

Trying to conquer Poland. Have to convince the big guys first though :)
 
In reaction to several nations' claims that the Sultan is an aggressive and bloodthirsty warmonger, I feel the need to point out that the Ottoman Empire has not taken a single non-core province, a statement that I believe only otherwise applies to France.
 
Owen said:
In reaction to several nations' claims that the Sultan is an aggressive and bloodthirsty warmonger, I feel the need to point out that the Ottoman Empire has not taken a single non-core province, a statement that I believe only otherwise applies to France.
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The fact that OE starts out with massively oversized CB shields has nothing to do with this, I'm sure. :rofl:
 
Blei said:
Trying to conquer Poland. Have to convince the big guys first though :)
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Er. Robert?

Do you mean that Austria should conquer Poland, or do you mean you want to play as Poland, but need to convince Hive and Slargos?
 
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