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Not yet. Did you post it anywhere on these fora? If not, please post it or send it directly to my e-mail. I'll be happy to include it as soon as I get it.Lycortas2 said:
Cheers
cool
Okay,
I will email them off... I am still working on Persia & Azeris and a few other things so these files may get updated periodically.
Mike
Okay,
I will email them off... I am still working on Persia & Azeris and a few other things so these files may get updated periodically.
Mike
Didn't arrive yet. Do you have my e-mail adress? it's:
<login> halibutt
at
o2
<dot>
<domain>pl
Cheers
<login> halibutt
at
o2
<dot>
<domain>pl
Cheers
Lycortas2 said:
Working backwards from Ottoman surveys (based on the 50% increase in 50 years that Anatolia was experiencing) I get roughly 7.5 million in 1836. 6 million muslims, 600 000 armenians, 800 000 greeks, 60 000 other christians (eastern Anatolia) and about 30 000 jews. After a casual round up (assuming lower population growth) I get 8 million. This means you're off by about 20% (multiplier in this case should be .3 if I am correct) . This of course means that number could be a classic off by 400% problem, not that that number would be entirely correct either.
A resource worth passing on
I found a site with some apparently detailed census data for pops. You have to be a student in the right universities [and get a password], but I thought I'd pass it along anyway. It looks like it has a lot of potential.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/
I found a site with some apparently detailed census data for pops. You have to be a student in the right universities [and get a password], but I thought I'd pass it along anyway. It looks like it has a lot of potential.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/
Pop
Hi all,
This is a repost of my post from the POP mod:
list of incorrect Pop files:
Both AegabArchipelago files(Greek,Turkish)
Both Algeria files (Arab,Tuareg)
All 4 Anatolia files; the Greek and Armenian MAY be correct, the Turkish is certainly not correct!
Austria_German_Catholic
Banat_Romanian_Orthodox
Bohemia_Czech_Catholic
Bohemia_German_Catholic
Bulgaria_Bulgarian
Bulgaria_Turkish (Bit too high)
Carinthia_German_Catholic
EastRumilia_Bulgarian
EastRumillia_Turkish
Epirus_Albanian
Epirus_Greek
All 3 Fars files (Persia)
All 3 Ghilan files (Persia)
Ionian (too many clergy)
JavaMahayana
JavaFolk
JavaSunni
All Jibal files (persia)
Jordan
All Ghilan files (persia)
All Kerman files (Persia)
All Khorason files (Persia)
All Khuzestan files (Persia)
All Konstantinople files
Both Korea files
All KurdoArmenia files
All Luristan files (Persia)
All Macedonian files
Malta
Both Morocco files
Palestine_Muslim
Palestine_Jewish
Palestine_Christian
Rumillia_Greek
Rumillia_Turkish
Serbia_Sunni
Serbia_Turkish
I feel those two are overlapping each other; halve each of them and the pos would be correct.
Slovakia_Slovak_Catholic
Slovakia_Hungarian_Protestant
Slovakia_Hungarian_Catholic
Slovakia_Ukrainian
Sumatra_JavanSunni
Sumatra_MalayanSunni
All Syria files
All Temesvar files
Why are both Tunis & Tunisia files being used? They cover the same area and are redundant. They also give Tunisia about a 25% population boost.
I have fixed (in a rough way) all of these issues. My fixes tend to be getting cultural boundaries correct and getting overall numbers correct. My fixes may not be as pretty as some out there but mine are 'more correct'.
If you would like them email me at lysimachus@charter.net
Michael
Hi all,
This is a repost of my post from the POP mod:
list of incorrect Pop files:
Both AegabArchipelago files(Greek,Turkish)
Both Algeria files (Arab,Tuareg)
All 4 Anatolia files; the Greek and Armenian MAY be correct, the Turkish is certainly not correct!
Austria_German_Catholic
Banat_Romanian_Orthodox
Bohemia_Czech_Catholic
Bohemia_German_Catholic
Bulgaria_Bulgarian
Bulgaria_Turkish (Bit too high)
Carinthia_German_Catholic
EastRumilia_Bulgarian
EastRumillia_Turkish
Epirus_Albanian
Epirus_Greek
All 3 Fars files (Persia)
All 3 Ghilan files (Persia)
Ionian (too many clergy)
JavaMahayana
JavaFolk
JavaSunni
All Jibal files (persia)
Jordan
All Ghilan files (persia)
All Kerman files (Persia)
All Khorason files (Persia)
All Khuzestan files (Persia)
All Konstantinople files
Both Korea files
All KurdoArmenia files
All Luristan files (Persia)
All Macedonian files
Malta
Both Morocco files
Palestine_Muslim
Palestine_Jewish
Palestine_Christian
Rumillia_Greek
Rumillia_Turkish
Serbia_Sunni
Serbia_Turkish
I feel those two are overlapping each other; halve each of them and the pos would be correct.
Slovakia_Slovak_Catholic
Slovakia_Hungarian_Protestant
Slovakia_Hungarian_Catholic
Slovakia_Ukrainian
Sumatra_JavanSunni
Sumatra_MalayanSunni
All Syria files
All Temesvar files
Why are both Tunis & Tunisia files being used? They cover the same area and are redundant. They also give Tunisia about a 25% population boost.
I have fixed (in a rough way) all of these issues. My fixes tend to be getting cultural boundaries correct and getting overall numbers correct. My fixes may not be as pretty as some out there but mine are 'more correct'.
If you would like them email me at lysimachus@charter.net
Michael
you say that files are "incorrect"... what do you mean by that? they give extra pops? the numbers are "fantasy numbers"? youo do not agree with their values? 
for example, i understand the problem with these two:
Serbia_Sunni
Serbia_Turkish
(they are equal)
but, with these 2:
Rumillia_Greek
Rumillia_Turkish
which is the problem?
the same applies to the rest, if you can identify the problem, we will be able to solve it faster...
for example, i understand the problem with these two:
Serbia_Sunni
Serbia_Turkish
(they are equal)
but, with these 2:
Rumillia_Greek
Rumillia_Turkish
which is the problem?
the same applies to the rest, if you can identify the problem, we will be able to solve it faster...
Lycortas if you find the POPs to be incorrect you should contact the authors and work it out with them so we will see your POPs in the game or something like that.
And by the way what source are you using? You seem to speak with a great deal of certantity.
And by the way what source are you using? You seem to speak with a great deal of certantity.
POPs
Hi all,
Generalissimo,
I have fixed most of the files i mentioned and i sent most of those to Halibutt quite a while back for the POP mod.
Problems:
Someone else did the Austria-Hungary files as well as me; we both sent them to Halibutt for the POP mod, his were chosen. That was fine with me as my fix was fairly rough. However, when i started using the VIP i noticed that Austria now has more clerks than any other country. Also Austria's pop is about 5m to high.
Every other file i listed is completely wrong on numbers. Like the Ottomans with 50m people. If you believe that one i have a bridge to sell.
Persia is still wrong even though i sent in corrected files.
My VIP pop thread and my posts in the pop mod forum are fairly comprehensive; I am not going to list it all again.
Michael
Hi all,
Generalissimo,
I have fixed most of the files i mentioned and i sent most of those to Halibutt quite a while back for the POP mod.
Problems:
Someone else did the Austria-Hungary files as well as me; we both sent them to Halibutt for the POP mod, his were chosen. That was fine with me as my fix was fairly rough. However, when i started using the VIP i noticed that Austria now has more clerks than any other country. Also Austria's pop is about 5m to high.
Every other file i listed is completely wrong on numbers. Like the Ottomans with 50m people. If you believe that one i have a bridge to sell.
Persia is still wrong even though i sent in corrected files.
My VIP pop thread and my posts in the pop mod forum are fairly comprehensive; I am not going to list it all again.
Michael
None arrived. Could you send them again with the title "Europa Universalis"? All the topics related to POP modification seem to be on my servers' black spam list....
Cheers
Cheers
sorry, but what is the point of this?Lycortas2 said:
if you think that your files works better AND you got my email, why you do not send me those files before (or even now)?
i asked you on the forum AND in an email if you got more changes and you never answered...
I will be waiting for your files if you want to send them... it is pointless to track all your changes and do it myself...
Thanks.
What???
What are you talking about?
I HAVE sent these files to Halibut as he is/was running the POP mod which as far as i understand is being used in VIP!
The only reason i am mentioning this here is because i was asked to on the POP mod forum.
I do not know what to send as i do not want to waste my time sending stuff that no one is going to use or look at!
Are we using my Austria or someone elses Austria? Maybe you guys all like Austria with a couple of million clerks. I do not know what happened with any of this!
I was one of the people starting VIP in the first place but it has grown out of all recognition. I do not know why the 'POP mod' was released in the first place as that was my project and i was not done yet. People were throwing in pop data from the region forums and not discussing their ideas/data with me, Tunch or Halibut who were the people who started this.
Thus, in conclusion, we have a VIP, which i helped to start, with incorrect POPs everywhere even though i already fixed them and sent them off to both Derek & Halibut.
Much of our origional ideas about what kind of events were going to be included went out the window and the Vic players that i know feel that 2/3s of the added events are either pointless or unbalanced.
This is not to say that good did not come out of this. Europe & South America both have quite a few new good events. And reworked events.
What would you like me to do about pop files?
I have asked some of the people i respect to discuss some of this in the Pop mod threads or my VIP pops thread or PM me but i have received no responses. So i do not know what the data was that lead some people to give pop figures that i feel are way off. Maybe Austria really did have more clerks than any other country... I would like to discuss this with some people before i unilaterally change things.
But, many countries are just plain wrong.
PM me or something so we can discuss this.
Michael
What are you talking about?
I HAVE sent these files to Halibut as he is/was running the POP mod which as far as i understand is being used in VIP!
The only reason i am mentioning this here is because i was asked to on the POP mod forum.
I do not know what to send as i do not want to waste my time sending stuff that no one is going to use or look at!
Are we using my Austria or someone elses Austria? Maybe you guys all like Austria with a couple of million clerks. I do not know what happened with any of this!
I was one of the people starting VIP in the first place but it has grown out of all recognition. I do not know why the 'POP mod' was released in the first place as that was my project and i was not done yet. People were throwing in pop data from the region forums and not discussing their ideas/data with me, Tunch or Halibut who were the people who started this.
Thus, in conclusion, we have a VIP, which i helped to start, with incorrect POPs everywhere even though i already fixed them and sent them off to both Derek & Halibut.
Much of our origional ideas about what kind of events were going to be included went out the window and the Vic players that i know feel that 2/3s of the added events are either pointless or unbalanced.
This is not to say that good did not come out of this. Europe & South America both have quite a few new good events. And reworked events.
What would you like me to do about pop files?
I have asked some of the people i respect to discuss some of this in the Pop mod threads or my VIP pops thread or PM me but i have received no responses. So i do not know what the data was that lead some people to give pop figures that i feel are way off. Maybe Austria really did have more clerks than any other country... I would like to discuss this with some people before i unilaterally change things.
But, many countries are just plain wrong.
PM me or something so we can discuss this.
Michael
Lycortas,
Please calm down!!! What happened is that Halibutt had to return to the REAL world and left the POPMod in january, since them no POP submission was assimilated, so this was the reason that this part of your work wasn't added.
Generalisimo is in charge of VIP, so sending your files to him, I assure you is nothing compared to sending to no one, or that no one will be looking into it.
And I can say that, cause I've made ALL pops to South America, and sent to him, and received a big support from him in this work.
What you tell is true, VIP became enormous, and some early work might be lost, but it is no reason that this work once reported as accounted continue as 'lost'.
So if you do have a contribution to add, please do so. And if the ingame Austria is wrong and yours is right, is just the matter to present a link to where you are basing your numbers and voilá, it is done.
Once again, there is no need to be upset, and Generalisimo is a very open guy, send him his work that it will be integrated. Personally I sent 500kb in .rar format (pictures, events, pops, you name it!, all added.)
Please calm down!!! What happened is that Halibutt had to return to the REAL world and left the POPMod in january, since them no POP submission was assimilated, so this was the reason that this part of your work wasn't added.
Generalisimo is in charge of VIP, so sending your files to him, I assure you is nothing compared to sending to no one, or that no one will be looking into it.
And I can say that, cause I've made ALL pops to South America, and sent to him, and received a big support from him in this work.
What you tell is true, VIP became enormous, and some early work might be lost, but it is no reason that this work once reported as accounted continue as 'lost'.
So if you do have a contribution to add, please do so. And if the ingame Austria is wrong and yours is right, is just the matter to present a link to where you are basing your numbers and voilá, it is done.
Once again, there is no need to be upset, and Generalisimo is a very open guy, send him his work that it will be integrated. Personally I sent 500kb in .rar format (pictures, events, pops, you name it!, all added.)
Lycortas2 said:
Those who feel VIP events are no good should, if they can`t contribute by writting themselves, at least come here and comment on the events, so we have an idea how they percive things and NOT WHINE about it in the general discussion forum or wherever. I for one am practicaly begging for any observation on my events to see how people see them, if they find them balanced and worth of inclusion and so on (sure they look good to me, but...).
Lycortas2 said:
The guy who modified Austrian POPs did so before the patch that reduced Austrian popullation came out. So what guided him most was to reduce the popullation from original 40 million to a more historical 25 million or so. So as you can see his work was a great improvment and a good contribution. Nobody said it was perfect though and that there isn`t any place left for further inmprovments.
Also historicaly Austria did have somewhat larger percentage of clerks as it was the most buerocratised country in the world.
In Victoria however clerks work in factories and therefore produce and not waste money so it might be better not to simulate this beerocratisation (as it would have exactly the opposite effect than historicaly -Austria being more not less productive).
Halibutt already stated that he didn't receive your files...Lycortas2 said:
I have nothing to do with the POPmod, Halibutt manages that, i only took the last version (1.6) and implemented it in VIP. IF you saw that your files were not included in that version of the POPmod, they will not be in VIP neither.
Please, like you did with Korea, compress your files and send them to my email (generalisimo_arg@hotmail.com), i will gladly integrate them into VIP.
thanks.
Any good news here? Reconciliation, maybe?
After all this chit-chat I am really curious about Lycortas work.
After all this chit-chat I am really curious about Lycortas work.
sure
Generalissimo, Pimparel,
i have no problem with any of you; I just am/was getting very frustrated
with things i planned when the VIP consisted of me & 3 other people that seem to have disapeared. I did not know Halibut never received my origional Pop files; I find that kinda weird as i am credited in the first pop mod. (.1 or something)
Did you receive the Korea, Algeria, & Morocco files? If so i am working on better files for them and the Central Asian states. I asked around several threads if anyone was already working on Central Asia but i did not find anyone, so I am working on it myself. I do not want to step on other peoples toes if they are already working on some Pop files, which is why i have not just emailed all that i have to Generalisimo.
What on my list of problems i have found do you feel has already been fixed, is being fixed, or you just plain feel doesn't need fixing?
sorry i was cranky, I did not know what happened to all of my work.
Michael
Ps. someone asked about my qualifications; I have my Phd in Aegean History
(Crete mostly) and I am working on my 2nd Masters in naming, listing, counting theory.
I have started work on a demography book covering 1000bc till 1939ce from the Eastern Med to the Persian Gulf.
Now that i have said all that, several other people did some great work on the Balkans & South America and elsewhere. I feel that i can contribute a fair amount however. I hope!
M
Generalissimo, Pimparel,
i have no problem with any of you; I just am/was getting very frustrated
with things i planned when the VIP consisted of me & 3 other people that seem to have disapeared. I did not know Halibut never received my origional Pop files; I find that kinda weird as i am credited in the first pop mod. (.1 or something)
Did you receive the Korea, Algeria, & Morocco files? If so i am working on better files for them and the Central Asian states. I asked around several threads if anyone was already working on Central Asia but i did not find anyone, so I am working on it myself. I do not want to step on other peoples toes if they are already working on some Pop files, which is why i have not just emailed all that i have to Generalisimo.
What on my list of problems i have found do you feel has already been fixed, is being fixed, or you just plain feel doesn't need fixing?
sorry i was cranky, I did not know what happened to all of my work.
Michael
Ps. someone asked about my qualifications; I have my Phd in Aegean History
(Crete mostly) and I am working on my 2nd Masters in naming, listing, counting theory.
I have started work on a demography book covering 1000bc till 1939ce from the Eastern Med to the Persian Gulf.
Now that i have said all that, several other people did some great work on the Balkans & South America and elsewhere. I feel that i can contribute a fair amount however. I hope!
M
UAU,
******** THUMBS UP ********
Glad that everything finished well, and for the better of VIP community.
Michael, as I am working with POPs also, and I ended reviewing all of them, searching for BUGs, not inconsistences; I can recommend you to take a look into this Thread - POP File Checker, where Ilkhold was able to produce an easy applicative to review all file in search of, what I call the 'empty line bug'.
POP Checker
Pimparel
******** THUMBS UP ********
Glad that everything finished well, and for the better of VIP community.
Michael, as I am working with POPs also, and I ended reviewing all of them, searching for BUGs, not inconsistences; I can recommend you to take a look into this Thread - POP File Checker, where Ilkhold was able to produce an easy applicative to review all file in search of, what I call the 'empty line bug'.
POP Checker
Pimparel
As far as i know, there is no one working on central asia.Lycortas2 said:
Both AegabArchipelago files(Greek,Turkish)Lycortas2 said:What on my list of problems i have found do you feel has already been fixed, is being fixed, or you just plain feel doesn't need fixing?
-too big pops?
Both Algeria files (Arab,Tuareg)
-didn't you tweak that?
All 4 Anatolia files; the Greek and Armenian MAY be correct, the Turkish is certainly not correct!
-it looks like it wasn't divided by 4 like all files maybe?
Austria_German_Catholic
-i supose it is the clercks problem that you describe, and that Hrast has explained that the clercks were wrongly used...
Banat_Romanian_Orthodox
-too much farmers?
Bohemia_Czech_Catholic
Bohemia_German_Catholic
-too big pops?
Bulgaria_Bulgarian
Bulgaria_Turkish (Bit too high)
-maybe the same problem here? what happens if we divide it by 4?
Carinthia_German_Catholic
-too much pops?
EastRumilia_Bulgarian
EastRumillia_Turkish
-too much pops?
Epirus_Albanian
Epirus_Greek
-too much pops?
All 3 Fars files (Persia)
All 3 Ghilan files (Persia)
-you are working on that now, so i will wait
Ionian (too many clergy)
-divide it by 4? or less?
JavaMahayana
JavaFolk
JavaSunni
-overpopulation?
All Jibal files (persia)
Jordan
All Ghilan files (persia)
All Kerman files (Persia)
All Khorason files (Persia)
All Khuzestan files (Persia)
All Konstantinople files
Both Korea files
All KurdoArmenia files
All Luristan files (Persia)
All Macedonian files
-i think you are working on all those files, right?
Malta
-too much farmers there?
Both Morocco files
-again, too big?
Palestine_Muslim
Palestine_Jewish
Palestine_Christian
-the problem here is that they are big?
Rumillia_Greek
Rumillia_Turkish
-both files are different... maybe they are too big?
Serbia_Sunni
Serbia_Turkish
-corrected.
Slovakia_Slovak_Catholic
Slovakia_Hungarian_Protestant
Slovakia_Hungarian_Catholic
Slovakia_Ukrainian
Sumatra_JavanSunni
Sumatra_MalayanSunni
All Syria files
All Temesvar files
well, i remember that in the first releases, the POPs that were wrong had the problem of not beeing divided by 4, so they were 4 times bigger than in reality... in most of the cases that was the solution, but i do not know if that is true here...
Any help to solve those problems that you mention will be great.