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Fulcrumvale said:I keep reading the SCA as the society for creative anachronism.o
Of which I am a proud member
---This is me
Very interesting to watch all of what's happened. And really, the US versus Sardinia-Piedmont should have been a foregone conclusion - I really think you would have been in trouble if you had lost that... How did Sardinia get involved in Mexico anyway? Was it somehow related to the French attempting to put Maximillian on the throne?
Hm. I like this. Out of all the targets of Southron extremist groups, perhaps the Catholics are most capable of organizing a counter-offensive. Intriguing.
The thing I like about this history is that it's very similar to our timeline, except for some game elements thrown in and reinterpreted into history. I liked the Free City of Austin, the Hegelian city in Florida, the intervention in the USCA, and the U.S. fighting Sardinia over Mexico. But even with all these things, I'd argue that this timeline is near identical to our world in most aspects.
The thing I like about this history is that it's very similar to our timeline, except for some game elements thrown in and reinterpreted into history. I liked the Free City of Austin, the Hegelian city in Florida, the intervention in the USCA, and the U.S. fighting Sardinia over Mexico. But even with all these things, I'd argue that this timeline is near identical to our world in most aspects.
Alex Borhild: Yes, they were for a time allied with the French who went to war with Mexico to put the emperor back on the throne. The war got a little long and the Germans invaded France, which forced the French out with only a few lands claimed.
Strategos' Risk: Thank you! I've tried to make it feel as 'real' as possible. this may end up changing with some of the later events that make the world, not just the US, a very different place.
Strategos' Risk: Thank you! I've tried to make it feel as 'real' as possible. this may end up changing with some of the later events that make the world, not just the US, a very different place.
Finally caught up once more and this is one crazy alt world - AS Johnston fighting (and living) for the North? No Lincoln presidency...and still a civil war? American troops fighting a war in Europe...before the turn of the century?
All of it written up with great care and research. Well done, Estonianzulu. Sorry I have not had the chance to keep current as you've gone along, but I am caught up in time to catch the twilight years.
All of it written up with great care and research. Well done, Estonianzulu. Sorry I have not had the chance to keep current as you've gone along, but I am caught up in time to catch the twilight years.
coz1 said:Finally caught up once more and this is one crazy alt world - AS Johnston fighting (and living) for the North? No Lincoln presidency...and still a civil war? American troops fighting a war in Europe...before the turn of the century?
All of it written up with great care and research. Well done, Estonianzulu. Sorry I have not had the chance to keep current as you've gone along, but I am caught up in time to catch the twilight years.
No worries, and thanks
BTW, awesome avatar.
Peace and Plenty
~~
As President Morrill continued his second term, the US continued its growth. John Sherman (brother to the current leader of the Chief of the Army) worked as Morrill's Secretary of the Treasury, and was oblivious to the dangerous growth of monopolies and trusts. Men like Andrew Carnegie, JP Morgan and the inventor Thomas Edison rose to prominence and infamy during this period. Their business activities and mergers allowed them, and a handful of other businessmen to slowly build an empire of control across the country. From the fields of California to the industrial heart of the mid-west, these few thousand men seemingly controlled everything. It was made worse that ninety percent of these industrialists were northerners. Many southern leaders felt even more isolated as the growth of wealth continued in the North.
With this growth came the rise of working condition problems. Men like Abraham Lincoln and other old Whig-born republicans began to take up the cause of these men. These Republicans founded the "Workers Association of America. The WAA was the earliest nation wide Union for workers, hoping to represent worker interests. By the turn of the century, the WAA and its splinter groups would be specifically responsible for the new regulations and rules concerning how businesses could operate. But for a while the WAA was merely a place for disgruntled and unrepresented workers to meet. It was a breeding ground for discontent, distrust and Marxism. It was in 1883 that the first Socialist parties in the United States were founded.
Abraham Lincoln, Socialist candidate for President.
With this as a backdrop, the election of 1884 rolled around. The Republicans needed desperately to find a successor to President Lane. The Democrats likewise needed to coalesce and put aside the North-South divide. It seemed only tertiary parties were united. The Socialists nominated Abraham Lincoln, while the Prohibitionists nominated John St. John, former Governor of Kansas. Neither candidate could sway any support from the major parties, and once again it would come down to the nominations to decide who would be chosen as President of the United States. The Republicans were split along three lines, while the Democrats were split along two.
The Southern Democrats had slowly built up the courage to put forward a controversial candidate. The stain of the Richmond Riots forgotten after but a year, the Democratic party of Virginia nominated Thomas Jackson as their candidate. His oratory and strength sent shockwaves through the Southern Democrats. The Carolinas, and the rest of the Deep South soon followed his nomination. It seemed that Jackson would be unchallenged for the Democratic ticket. The Northern Democrats, who had slowly developed to counter the domination of Republicans in congress on economic issues, nominated New York governor Grover Cleveland to challenge the split Republicans. Cleveland and Jackson agreed on many issues, but a few great divides kept the two from coming together. First off was Jackson's opposition to the "Carpetbaggers" who had brought industry into the South. He promised incentives to allow former Southern land owners to get involved in the industrial process. Cleveland however wanted to continue the Northern growth of industry.
Governor Grover Cleveland
The Republicans meanwhile had three viable candidates. First was Lane's Secretary of State, John Sherman. Sherman, following the war with Sardinia, had been a quiet and out of the limelight politician. He was, like Lane eight years earlier, Sherman had very few negatives about him. His brother was a celebrated war hero, his term had been silent and peaceful, and above all else non-controversial. Sherman was the safe candidate, but his primary opponent, Rutherford B. Hayes, was a more dramatic one. Hayes loudly opposed the growth of strong unions, and called for more US involvement in South and Central American politics. Hayes felt that the influence of Europeans in the South could eventually leave America isolated and under pressure from Europeans. Hayes damned Sherman's Quiet Neighbor policy, and called for more expression of US military and political power. The third candidate was James G. Blaine, a politician from Maine who called for a return to Reconstruction, wanting to fully end the power of Southern resistance. Although Blaine was popular among many in New England, the rest of the North had lost its taste for this brand of rhetoric, and Blaine was by far the black horse in the race.
~~
As President Morrill continued his second term, the US continued its growth. John Sherman (brother to the current leader of the Chief of the Army) worked as Morrill's Secretary of the Treasury, and was oblivious to the dangerous growth of monopolies and trusts. Men like Andrew Carnegie, JP Morgan and the inventor Thomas Edison rose to prominence and infamy during this period. Their business activities and mergers allowed them, and a handful of other businessmen to slowly build an empire of control across the country. From the fields of California to the industrial heart of the mid-west, these few thousand men seemingly controlled everything. It was made worse that ninety percent of these industrialists were northerners. Many southern leaders felt even more isolated as the growth of wealth continued in the North.
With this growth came the rise of working condition problems. Men like Abraham Lincoln and other old Whig-born republicans began to take up the cause of these men. These Republicans founded the "Workers Association of America. The WAA was the earliest nation wide Union for workers, hoping to represent worker interests. By the turn of the century, the WAA and its splinter groups would be specifically responsible for the new regulations and rules concerning how businesses could operate. But for a while the WAA was merely a place for disgruntled and unrepresented workers to meet. It was a breeding ground for discontent, distrust and Marxism. It was in 1883 that the first Socialist parties in the United States were founded.
Abraham Lincoln, Socialist candidate for President.
With this as a backdrop, the election of 1884 rolled around. The Republicans needed desperately to find a successor to President Lane. The Democrats likewise needed to coalesce and put aside the North-South divide. It seemed only tertiary parties were united. The Socialists nominated Abraham Lincoln, while the Prohibitionists nominated John St. John, former Governor of Kansas. Neither candidate could sway any support from the major parties, and once again it would come down to the nominations to decide who would be chosen as President of the United States. The Republicans were split along three lines, while the Democrats were split along two.
The Southern Democrats had slowly built up the courage to put forward a controversial candidate. The stain of the Richmond Riots forgotten after but a year, the Democratic party of Virginia nominated Thomas Jackson as their candidate. His oratory and strength sent shockwaves through the Southern Democrats. The Carolinas, and the rest of the Deep South soon followed his nomination. It seemed that Jackson would be unchallenged for the Democratic ticket. The Northern Democrats, who had slowly developed to counter the domination of Republicans in congress on economic issues, nominated New York governor Grover Cleveland to challenge the split Republicans. Cleveland and Jackson agreed on many issues, but a few great divides kept the two from coming together. First off was Jackson's opposition to the "Carpetbaggers" who had brought industry into the South. He promised incentives to allow former Southern land owners to get involved in the industrial process. Cleveland however wanted to continue the Northern growth of industry.
Governor Grover Cleveland
The Republicans meanwhile had three viable candidates. First was Lane's Secretary of State, John Sherman. Sherman, following the war with Sardinia, had been a quiet and out of the limelight politician. He was, like Lane eight years earlier, Sherman had very few negatives about him. His brother was a celebrated war hero, his term had been silent and peaceful, and above all else non-controversial. Sherman was the safe candidate, but his primary opponent, Rutherford B. Hayes, was a more dramatic one. Hayes loudly opposed the growth of strong unions, and called for more US involvement in South and Central American politics. Hayes felt that the influence of Europeans in the South could eventually leave America isolated and under pressure from Europeans. Hayes damned Sherman's Quiet Neighbor policy, and called for more expression of US military and political power. The third candidate was James G. Blaine, a politician from Maine who called for a return to Reconstruction, wanting to fully end the power of Southern resistance. Although Blaine was popular among many in New England, the rest of the North had lost its taste for this brand of rhetoric, and Blaine was by far the black horse in the race.
Lincoln the socialist? Will there be a Gettysburg address based on the Communist Manifesto?
I can't believe I am saying this, but go Hays? Cleveland? I love Lincoln, but I could never vote for a socialist. Not even in this world.
Great twist, Estonianzulu.
Great twist, Estonianzulu.
Interesting times, it seems. The splits in the major parties will make for lively conventions, and the Presidency will likely go to the party that can best rally 'round after the convention is over. Hard to imagine Northern Democrats rallying to a Southerner who fought for secession, though...
That intervention in Europe had to have made you at least a little nervous. Thank goodness it was Tuscany who rallied to Sardinia and not a major power.
Grover Cleveland and John Sherman are both polished, professional politicians. But I'd love to hear one of Thomas Jackson's campaign speeches.
That intervention in Europe had to have made you at least a little nervous. Thank goodness it was Tuscany who rallied to Sardinia and not a major power.
Grover Cleveland and John Sherman are both polished, professional politicians. But I'd love to hear one of Thomas Jackson's campaign speeches.
Fulcrumvale: Indeed, viva Lincoln! Come the revolution...
JimboIX: Perhaps, although Lincoln is supported by the socialists, and is a strong supporter of worker rights, but he isn't a staunch left winger.
RGB: I prefer Japanese cars to American luxury models.
coz1: Thanks! Hayes and Cleveland are certainly more favored to win than Lincoln, but the Socialists could be the next Republicans.
Director: Yeah, Jackson is far more emotional than any of the other 19th century politicians, and would be a stark contrast to the crop of president's who led the nation since the Civil War.
JimboIX: Perhaps, although Lincoln is supported by the socialists, and is a strong supporter of worker rights, but he isn't a staunch left winger.
RGB: I prefer Japanese cars to American luxury models.
coz1: Thanks! Hayes and Cleveland are certainly more favored to win than Lincoln, but the Socialists could be the next Republicans.
Director: Yeah, Jackson is far more emotional than any of the other 19th century politicians, and would be a stark contrast to the crop of president's who led the nation since the Civil War.
Maryland's Betrayal and the election of 1884.
--
The election of 1884 was to be the most hotly contended election since 1862. With a slew of candidates on the ballots, the primaries were going to decide the contenders. The two leading candidates going into the party nominations were Grover Cleveland for the Democrats and Rutherford B Hayes for the Republicans. Hayes and Cleveland were both career politicians, one a governor the other a vice president. Neither had made many enemies on the national stage, and both had a great chance to achieve victory. Cleveland and Hayes were both heroes to the Industrialists, and both were proponents of a continuation of the economic policies of President Morrill. The primary difference between the two was in foreign policy.
Cleveland believed that the United States should turn its back on the Morrill interference policy. He believed a quiet isolationism was the most successful path for economic development. Hayes on the other hand led a group of Republicans called the "Eagle" republicans, men who felt that American expansion and growth depended on continued influence not only in the America's, but also in Asia and Europe. This was the opposite of John Sherman, and James Blaine, whose financial policy proposals were contradictory and indecisive. After a few short weeks, Blaine was muscled out by Sherman and Hayes. In the end it came down to the two of them. Hayes swept the New York and Mid-west Republicans, along with the few Southerners who still held sway in the Republican party. Sherman meanwhile carried New England and the West Coast, but it was not enough to take the whole party. Hayes won the nomination for the party.
Rutherford B Hayes
The Democrats on the other hand were not so peaceful in their battle. Grover Cleveland of New York faced off in a series of heated debates with Thomas Jackson of Virginia. Cleveland was far and away the better politician. He made the connections, discussed the issues and raised the money. Jackson however dominated with the people. Jackson and Cleveland debated numerous times, and although Cleveland was the more appropriate speaker, Jackson had the fire and strength to make every debate seem his own. Thousands of people were swung into his camp, except when it came to Northern Democrats. While Virginians and other deep Southern Democrats flocked to Jackson's banner, Northerners felt that such a fiery and controversial man as Jackson could never hope to take the White House.
Nevertheless, Jackson captured the nomination. The Southerners threw their support behind Jackson, while the North went to Cleveland. Cleveland, outraged at what he felt was a betrayal of the party to Southern values over political reality. Cleveland refused to back down. He would rather throw the election to the Republicans than let Jackson take the victory. So, Cleveland declared himself the nominee for the Independent Democrats. The Independent Democrats ran no candidates but Cleveland, and planned to take border states away from the Democratic party. The plan worked. Cleveland managed to pull in the states of West Virginia, Tennessee, North Texas, Nebraska, New Mexico and Colorado. That brought in 41 electoral votes.
Jackson swept the south without threat. Only the state of Maryland held out, thanks in great part to the city of Baltimore. This was thanks to the growth of black workers in the Baltimore factories. The former slaves had doubled the size of the city, and thus greatly increased the size of the state itself. In most of the South blacks were kept away from ballot boxes due to Grandfather clauses and other laws keeping them out. In Baltimore, which was still largely controlled by Union men, and still had a large number of Northern soldiers, this problem did not exist. The blacks voted in droves, and they voted for Northern politicians, namely Rutherford B Hayes. With Baltimore went Maryland, and with Maryland went the election, the west and the North, despite being courted by Cleveland, all went to Hayes in the end. Rutherford B Hayes, with John Davis Long as his Vice President.
Democrat: Thomas Jackson and John Griffin Carlisle- 80
Republican: Rutherford B Hayes and John Davis Long- 289
Ind. Democrat: Grover Cleveland and John Franklin Miller- 41
Socialist: Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Collier Platt- 2
--
The election of 1884 was to be the most hotly contended election since 1862. With a slew of candidates on the ballots, the primaries were going to decide the contenders. The two leading candidates going into the party nominations were Grover Cleveland for the Democrats and Rutherford B Hayes for the Republicans. Hayes and Cleveland were both career politicians, one a governor the other a vice president. Neither had made many enemies on the national stage, and both had a great chance to achieve victory. Cleveland and Hayes were both heroes to the Industrialists, and both were proponents of a continuation of the economic policies of President Morrill. The primary difference between the two was in foreign policy.
Cleveland believed that the United States should turn its back on the Morrill interference policy. He believed a quiet isolationism was the most successful path for economic development. Hayes on the other hand led a group of Republicans called the "Eagle" republicans, men who felt that American expansion and growth depended on continued influence not only in the America's, but also in Asia and Europe. This was the opposite of John Sherman, and James Blaine, whose financial policy proposals were contradictory and indecisive. After a few short weeks, Blaine was muscled out by Sherman and Hayes. In the end it came down to the two of them. Hayes swept the New York and Mid-west Republicans, along with the few Southerners who still held sway in the Republican party. Sherman meanwhile carried New England and the West Coast, but it was not enough to take the whole party. Hayes won the nomination for the party.
Rutherford B Hayes
The Democrats on the other hand were not so peaceful in their battle. Grover Cleveland of New York faced off in a series of heated debates with Thomas Jackson of Virginia. Cleveland was far and away the better politician. He made the connections, discussed the issues and raised the money. Jackson however dominated with the people. Jackson and Cleveland debated numerous times, and although Cleveland was the more appropriate speaker, Jackson had the fire and strength to make every debate seem his own. Thousands of people were swung into his camp, except when it came to Northern Democrats. While Virginians and other deep Southern Democrats flocked to Jackson's banner, Northerners felt that such a fiery and controversial man as Jackson could never hope to take the White House.
Nevertheless, Jackson captured the nomination. The Southerners threw their support behind Jackson, while the North went to Cleveland. Cleveland, outraged at what he felt was a betrayal of the party to Southern values over political reality. Cleveland refused to back down. He would rather throw the election to the Republicans than let Jackson take the victory. So, Cleveland declared himself the nominee for the Independent Democrats. The Independent Democrats ran no candidates but Cleveland, and planned to take border states away from the Democratic party. The plan worked. Cleveland managed to pull in the states of West Virginia, Tennessee, North Texas, Nebraska, New Mexico and Colorado. That brought in 41 electoral votes.
Jackson swept the south without threat. Only the state of Maryland held out, thanks in great part to the city of Baltimore. This was thanks to the growth of black workers in the Baltimore factories. The former slaves had doubled the size of the city, and thus greatly increased the size of the state itself. In most of the South blacks were kept away from ballot boxes due to Grandfather clauses and other laws keeping them out. In Baltimore, which was still largely controlled by Union men, and still had a large number of Northern soldiers, this problem did not exist. The blacks voted in droves, and they voted for Northern politicians, namely Rutherford B Hayes. With Baltimore went Maryland, and with Maryland went the election, the west and the North, despite being courted by Cleveland, all went to Hayes in the end. Rutherford B Hayes, with John Davis Long as his Vice President.
Democrat: Thomas Jackson and John Griffin Carlisle- 80
Republican: Rutherford B Hayes and John Davis Long- 289
Ind. Democrat: Grover Cleveland and John Franklin Miller- 41
Socialist: Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Collier Platt- 2
Wow. Hayes managed to pull off that elusive act - be a sitting VP who is elected to the Presidency. And with a good deal less controversy than in RL.
JimboIX said:
Jackson in '88. *nods*
Although I suspect that this will, more likely, be the point at which the Democrats begin to fade through internal dissension and some new party steps up the podium.