Good job taking out Guangouzho, without one of great industry centre, how many IC they still have ?
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Admiral Yamamot: You're welcome.
KanaX: I am mainly using this one here: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~duke/stuff/old_paper_800x600.jpg
I add dirt with brushes.
Deus Eversor, Guangxi, Edzako: Thanks.
EDIT: Just reloaded at that time: With Guangzhou gone, they only had 9 IC left. :wacko: Wow, never noticed that when I played.
Ksim3000, cthulhu: Hey guys, nice to see some old faces again.
KanaX: I am mainly using this one here: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~duke/stuff/old_paper_800x600.jpg
I add dirt with brushes.
Deus Eversor, Guangxi, Edzako: Thanks.
EDIT: Just reloaded at that time: With Guangzhou gone, they only had 9 IC left. :wacko: Wow, never noticed that when I played. Ksim3000, cthulhu: Hey guys, nice to see some old faces again.
Whoho! Moving pictures!
You gotta love the new era of digital programming
Great yet probably very time consuming work, thanks!
You gotta love the new era of digital programming
Great yet probably very time consuming work, thanks!
Repetitive though it is excellent piccies but more importantly the words are of a matching, if not better, quality.
As someone who struggle to find time to write, let along produce my frankly shabby maps, I'm suitably impressed with the commitment this AAR clearly requires.
As someone who struggle to find time to write, let along produce my frankly shabby maps, I'm suitably impressed with the commitment this AAR clearly requires.
Discussing the Fate of China - January 1939
They were sitting in the office of General Hata in the headquarters in Beijing discussing the latest military events and outlining a strategy for the next month. But Ishiwara Kanji had something else on his mind. He was pondering a broader problem.
„We will have to decide soon what we really want to do with China, General.”
“Yes, yes, I agree. Did you get any new intelligence reports on their will to fight, General Okamura?”
Okamura was an enigmatic man, fitting for one who had worked for the intelligence section of the general staff. His bespectacled face was never betraying any emotions and neither did his calm voice. His stance on things was always hard to understand as he usually described everything from various viewpoints without saying which one he preferred.
“I talked to intelligence yesterday about this and according to our intelligence officers’ estimate they won’t keep up the fight for much longer. Chiang is more and more isolated in their leadership and we have received another clandestine offer via intermediaries from the faction around Wang Jingwei to make peace. They want to cede considerable territories along the coastlines and in the Northwest to us. They want a more or less independent rump state though.”
Hata nodded and weighed what he had heard. He had always been a thinker, not one to quickly make decisions or come to conclusion. However, when he had made a decision, it was usually well thought out and it was hard to win a debate with him. He had a certain gravitas when he spoke too.
“Yes, but we already discussed this before. This war’s goal has to remain to defeat the Nationalist leadership once and for all. If we accept this compromise now, we’ll be at war with them again in two, five or ten years from now. Our interests in China can only be served when we deal them a crushing blow now. General Ishiwara, Have you heard from the war ministry? What is their current plan when we have broken all resistance?”
Major General Ishiwara Kanji, Lieutenant General Okamura Yasuji
“I don’t really know. It changes so often and they don’t really tell us. I will call Lieutenant General Nakajima and ask him to send us the latest plans so we can comment on them. I think the recent plan to keep all of China under direct military occupation doesn’t make sense. We will never be able to administrate the whole country and we will also never be able to do so against the local political elites. What we should do is try to set up a puppet government like we did in Manchukuo and Mengukuo and give them some leeway with domestic policy and administrative tasks while controlling them militarily and economically.”
“Yes, I agree, that would be the wisest course. Any other plan would require way too many occupation troops. We will need the army to fight, not to occupy even after this war is concluded. At the moment the garrisons along our Northern border with Russia are pitifully weak.”
Russia wasn’t on Ishiwara’s mind when he thought of future uses for the army. The peoples of East Asia should be freed from the European yoke. And the army would be needed for that. He didn’t care too much for the North. Japan’s and Asia’s future was in the South. They would have to confront the Europeans eventually. For now, they were way too powerful, but with tensions in Europe intensifying you could never know what the future would bring. Japan had profited from the Great War too and occupied some islands and increased its influence in China.
“Yes, we should lobby for this in the war ministry, General. You have to convince the other generals that it is impossible to control a country the size of China. We need to institute local administrations and bind them to our will. That’s the only possibility.”
“Yes, I’ll discuss this in the war council and minister Itagaki when I fly back to Tokyo on Thursday. I am pretty sure the other field commanders will have a similar opinion. In fact I know that Terauchi has similar thoughts. I am sure we will be able to convince the staff members and the politicians.”
Ishiwara hoped that Hata would be right. The plan to occupy the whole country would end in a mess. They already had problems with bandits and partisans disrupting their supply lines and communist guerilla committed strikes against their personnel and installations regularly only to blend in with the masses again. It wasn’t a moral solution, but it certainly was the most advantageous solution for the Japanese Army: let the Chinese fight among each other.
Discussing the Fate of China
They were sitting in the office of General Hata in the headquarters in Beijing discussing the latest military events and outlining a strategy for the next month. But Ishiwara Kanji had something else on his mind. He was pondering a broader problem.
„We will have to decide soon what we really want to do with China, General.”
“Yes, yes, I agree. Did you get any new intelligence reports on their will to fight, General Okamura?”
Okamura was an enigmatic man, fitting for one who had worked for the intelligence section of the general staff. His bespectacled face was never betraying any emotions and neither did his calm voice. His stance on things was always hard to understand as he usually described everything from various viewpoints without saying which one he preferred.
“I talked to intelligence yesterday about this and according to our intelligence officers’ estimate they won’t keep up the fight for much longer. Chiang is more and more isolated in their leadership and we have received another clandestine offer via intermediaries from the faction around Wang Jingwei to make peace. They want to cede considerable territories along the coastlines and in the Northwest to us. They want a more or less independent rump state though.”
Hata nodded and weighed what he had heard. He had always been a thinker, not one to quickly make decisions or come to conclusion. However, when he had made a decision, it was usually well thought out and it was hard to win a debate with him. He had a certain gravitas when he spoke too.
“Yes, but we already discussed this before. This war’s goal has to remain to defeat the Nationalist leadership once and for all. If we accept this compromise now, we’ll be at war with them again in two, five or ten years from now. Our interests in China can only be served when we deal them a crushing blow now. General Ishiwara, Have you heard from the war ministry? What is their current plan when we have broken all resistance?”
Major General Ishiwara Kanji, Lieutenant General Okamura Yasuji
“I don’t really know. It changes so often and they don’t really tell us. I will call Lieutenant General Nakajima and ask him to send us the latest plans so we can comment on them. I think the recent plan to keep all of China under direct military occupation doesn’t make sense. We will never be able to administrate the whole country and we will also never be able to do so against the local political elites. What we should do is try to set up a puppet government like we did in Manchukuo and Mengukuo and give them some leeway with domestic policy and administrative tasks while controlling them militarily and economically.”
“Yes, I agree, that would be the wisest course. Any other plan would require way too many occupation troops. We will need the army to fight, not to occupy even after this war is concluded. At the moment the garrisons along our Northern border with Russia are pitifully weak.”
Russia wasn’t on Ishiwara’s mind when he thought of future uses for the army. The peoples of East Asia should be freed from the European yoke. And the army would be needed for that. He didn’t care too much for the North. Japan’s and Asia’s future was in the South. They would have to confront the Europeans eventually. For now, they were way too powerful, but with tensions in Europe intensifying you could never know what the future would bring. Japan had profited from the Great War too and occupied some islands and increased its influence in China.
“Yes, we should lobby for this in the war ministry, General. You have to convince the other generals that it is impossible to control a country the size of China. We need to institute local administrations and bind them to our will. That’s the only possibility.”
“Yes, I’ll discuss this in the war council and minister Itagaki when I fly back to Tokyo on Thursday. I am pretty sure the other field commanders will have a similar opinion. In fact I know that Terauchi has similar thoughts. I am sure we will be able to convince the staff members and the politicians.”
Ishiwara hoped that Hata would be right. The plan to occupy the whole country would end in a mess. They already had problems with bandits and partisans disrupting their supply lines and communist guerilla committed strikes against their personnel and installations regularly only to blend in with the masses again. It wasn’t a moral solution, but it certainly was the most advantageous solution for the Japanese Army: let the Chinese fight among each other.
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Yes conquer and divide . So are you really going to release them?
In Doomsday they use up all your supplies when you puppet them(they build too much infantry), I don't know if this is true for HOI2 vanilla also however, just a warning.
. So are you really going to release them? In Doomsday they use up all your supplies when you puppet them(they build too much infantry), I don't know if this is true for HOI2 vanilla also however, just a warning.
"I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.", a quote quite fitting for the situation.
I'm repeating myself:
This AAR is gorgeous!!!
But, don't you think that you will need the chinese IC?
This AAR is gorgeous!!!
But, don't you think that you will need the chinese IC?
This is just a thought and it perhaps would require an event but it is realistically possible that Pu-Yi could recieve some territory to cut down the costs. Afterall, Manchukuo is more established, is firmly Japanese and of course, would be an interesting twist to the story.
On the other note, if you don't wish to go that route (even just giving the provinces to Manchukuo) you could always create an event or something creating your own puppet state.
I puppeted Shanxi Clique once in one game. Hey, they betrayed Chiang.
Anyway, looking foward to the next update, sir!
Also, it's been too long, Zanza, too long.
On the other note, if you don't wish to go that route (even just giving the provinces to Manchukuo) you could always create an event or something creating your own puppet state.
I puppeted Shanxi Clique once in one game. Hey, they betrayed Chiang.
Anyway, looking foward to the next update, sir!
Also, it's been too long, Zanza, too long.
Plans are forged - February 1939
Yamamoto suppressed a yawn and wondered why he had returned from reviewing the fleet training in South China to his post as Vice Minister of the Navy. Politics were not what he liked, but it was necessary to be involved in them if you wanted to influence strategic decisions. The debate had gone on now for some time and the different ministers had voiced their opinion and so had the army and navy leadership. He sipped on his tea and wondered if they would ever find a consensus on a policy for China. Probably not, as the opinions held were too different. At the moment it was not yet clear whose ideas would prevail. It was a bit ironic that everybody had agreed to go to war against China, yet no one had clear plans for what should happen after the war was won.
Several different solutions had been discussed. They reached from total occupation and administration by a military government to finding a political solution by negotiating with the Chinese. He didn’t have a favorite solution and hadn’t taken part in the discussion. The only things that really interested him where keeping control of the ports in Shanghai and establishing a naval base on Hainan. But as everybody agreed on these aspects, he didn’t really care for the rest. It would probably be a compromise. Some regions controlled by puppet regimes like the one in Manchukuo, some regions directly controlled by the military. But the extents of each of these areas and the way they would be administrated were hotly debated.
The education minister, Kido Koichi, didn’t say anything. He was usually seen as the voice of the emperor because he was a close confidante of Hirohito. The two elder Princes Kanin and Fushimi played a similar role, but they didn’t attend this meeting for reasons unknown to Yamamoto. It was hard to discern if that meant that Hirohito didn’t care or didn’t want to get involved. Or if he just waited to sway the debate in the direction the emperor wanted it.
The army minister, Itagaki Seishiro, disagreed with the assessment of some of the field officers and said that the army would be able to control large territories in China. It would cost considerable manpower to establish garrisons all over China, but it was the only way to be sure that no Chinese puppet state turned on them a few years down the road. They had suffered from that before so they would make sure it didn’t happen again.
Lieutenant General Nakajima, the vice chief of staff, was more ambivalent about the ability of the army to control such a large territory. He said that it would limit operational capabilities versus Russia and other powers if the army had to keep a huge garrison in China.
Foreign minister Arita Hachiro had suggested making new diplomatic attempts to convince the Chinese to submit to Japanese supremacy. If that failed, he wanted to send his diplomats to the remaining warlords to discuss separated terms of surrender with them, guaranteeing them to stay in power. He thought that they would be able to make a deal with Long Yun, who ruled the southwestern Yunnan region. It was known that he was unsatisfied with Chiang. The areas he ruled over weren’t of particular strategic importance anyway so it didn’t matter too much if he only paid them lip-service.
The Prime Minister, Konoe Fumimaro weighed the arguments of each side and tried to moderate. It took several hours, but in the end, the government had agreed on a compromise.
Northern China would be administrated by the puppets in Manchukuo and Mengukuo. If it was possible to win over Long Yun, he would administrate the southwestern part, but would have to agree to Japanese garrisons in his territory. The capital of Manchukuo would move south to Beijing so the puppet emperor Pu Yi would be able rule from the old imperial palace again. They would make sure that he continued to follow his Japanese “advisors” though and keep him on the leash. His task would be to raise troops to defend the northern border against the Red Army that was more and more seen as a threat. The areas not administrated by these three puppet states would be directly administrated by a military government. They would station strong garrisons and some fleet units in Shanghai and Guangzhou and establish a new naval base on Hainan. The latter would surely draw criticism from the British, the French, the Dutch and the Americans though. But it was too good a position to care for this. Together with the naval base on Truk, Japan would be able to project power into the southern seas. Yamamoto was happy with these plans.
Preliminary plan for the division of China
Plans are forged
Yamamoto suppressed a yawn and wondered why he had returned from reviewing the fleet training in South China to his post as Vice Minister of the Navy. Politics were not what he liked, but it was necessary to be involved in them if you wanted to influence strategic decisions. The debate had gone on now for some time and the different ministers had voiced their opinion and so had the army and navy leadership. He sipped on his tea and wondered if they would ever find a consensus on a policy for China. Probably not, as the opinions held were too different. At the moment it was not yet clear whose ideas would prevail. It was a bit ironic that everybody had agreed to go to war against China, yet no one had clear plans for what should happen after the war was won.
Several different solutions had been discussed. They reached from total occupation and administration by a military government to finding a political solution by negotiating with the Chinese. He didn’t have a favorite solution and hadn’t taken part in the discussion. The only things that really interested him where keeping control of the ports in Shanghai and establishing a naval base on Hainan. But as everybody agreed on these aspects, he didn’t really care for the rest. It would probably be a compromise. Some regions controlled by puppet regimes like the one in Manchukuo, some regions directly controlled by the military. But the extents of each of these areas and the way they would be administrated were hotly debated.
The education minister, Kido Koichi, didn’t say anything. He was usually seen as the voice of the emperor because he was a close confidante of Hirohito. The two elder Princes Kanin and Fushimi played a similar role, but they didn’t attend this meeting for reasons unknown to Yamamoto. It was hard to discern if that meant that Hirohito didn’t care or didn’t want to get involved. Or if he just waited to sway the debate in the direction the emperor wanted it.
The army minister, Itagaki Seishiro, disagreed with the assessment of some of the field officers and said that the army would be able to control large territories in China. It would cost considerable manpower to establish garrisons all over China, but it was the only way to be sure that no Chinese puppet state turned on them a few years down the road. They had suffered from that before so they would make sure it didn’t happen again.
Lieutenant General Nakajima, the vice chief of staff, was more ambivalent about the ability of the army to control such a large territory. He said that it would limit operational capabilities versus Russia and other powers if the army had to keep a huge garrison in China.
Foreign minister Arita Hachiro had suggested making new diplomatic attempts to convince the Chinese to submit to Japanese supremacy. If that failed, he wanted to send his diplomats to the remaining warlords to discuss separated terms of surrender with them, guaranteeing them to stay in power. He thought that they would be able to make a deal with Long Yun, who ruled the southwestern Yunnan region. It was known that he was unsatisfied with Chiang. The areas he ruled over weren’t of particular strategic importance anyway so it didn’t matter too much if he only paid them lip-service.
The Prime Minister, Konoe Fumimaro weighed the arguments of each side and tried to moderate. It took several hours, but in the end, the government had agreed on a compromise.
Northern China would be administrated by the puppets in Manchukuo and Mengukuo. If it was possible to win over Long Yun, he would administrate the southwestern part, but would have to agree to Japanese garrisons in his territory. The capital of Manchukuo would move south to Beijing so the puppet emperor Pu Yi would be able rule from the old imperial palace again. They would make sure that he continued to follow his Japanese “advisors” though and keep him on the leash. His task would be to raise troops to defend the northern border against the Red Army that was more and more seen as a threat. The areas not administrated by these three puppet states would be directly administrated by a military government. They would station strong garrisons and some fleet units in Shanghai and Guangzhou and establish a new naval base on Hainan. The latter would surely draw criticism from the British, the French, the Dutch and the Americans though. But it was too good a position to care for this. Together with the naval base on Truk, Japan would be able to project power into the southern seas. Yamamoto was happy with these plans.
Preliminary plan for the division of China
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General Jac: Well, here is the preliminary plan. We'll see if I create a puppet China or not.
Sir Humphrey: Thanks.
KanaX: Yeah, the current plan is to do that in a smaller fashion with Long Yun.
Admiral Yamamot: I repeat myself too. Thanks. Maybe, I guess it will help.
Ksim3000: Well, as you can see, I'll do it a bit different from the normal event in the game.
Sir Humphrey: Thanks.
KanaX: Yeah, the current plan is to do that in a smaller fashion with Long Yun.
Admiral Yamamot: I repeat myself too. Thanks.
Maybe, I guess it will help. Ksim3000: Well, as you can see, I'll do it a bit different from the normal event in the game.
Perhaps there could be another state in Guaxi, as that would lower your TC by a fair bit.
I like the idea, it certainly will add an interesting emphasis onto the story and it will certainly be interesting to see the ultimate outcome.
Also, how is the production side in the Empire going on? Are you expanding on your Navy or just sticking with the Army?
Also, how is the production side in the Empire going on? Are you expanding on your Navy or just sticking with the Army?
