There will be no spam topics anywhere, ever. just to make our policy clear here guys. We're on a roll here atm, great discussions going on and things are organised - let us keep it that way
-TRP
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- Status
There will be no spam topics anywhere, ever. just to make our policy clear here guys. We're on a roll here atm, great discussions going on and things are organised - let us keep it that way
-TRP
(OOC Note: The rest is an in-character response and does not constitute my political views. Once again racism is one of the greatest evils of history. Yes, I'll actually be acting as if I were a German citizen in the German Empire in the 1930's. None of the modern liberal, political correctness, democracy nonsense.)
But that's what your Government is doing, when Germans or other Europeans aren't ruling Africa, Africa will fall apart. It's like what happens when you give a child control of a factory. The foreman may advise and instruct the child, but the child's invincible ignorance will refuse them from listening and lead to the destruction of the factory.
Even better, develop our colonies. Take Mittelafrika, and develop it, increase resource production, build infrastructure. Colonial reform is needed, something must be done, but dividing up Mittelafrika and giving it over to the primitive and savage Afrikans is not the answer.
We can not simply give them self rule, they are ignorant savages who must be taught, and there is no better tutelage than service under the German Empire.
The best hope for most Africans are as domesticated, pacified laborers, laboring under the benevolent rule of German Mittelafrika.
Once again, Hermann Goring recognized these truths and fought this Government, trusting and knowing in the greatness of the Germanic Peoples.
This Government's Muller Plan is an affront to Germany and Germanic Peoples everywhere. You ignore the critical resources Mittelafrika provides, and only think in terms of "spreading democracy" rather than the interest of Germany.
Sometimes, Democracy is a weakness, especially among the Africans where they can not make a good decision for themselves. They are primitive savages who can be raised up under German Rule.
The governance of the Freistaat Mittelafrika and the Allgemeine Ostasiatische Gesellschaft has done wonders for protecting German interests. We are only considering surrendering our colonies because this Government is afraid to protect German interests.
Hermann Goring, unlike this Government, was not willing to be bullied by Syndicalist or Entente threats and held his ground. For his loyalty to this country he was dragged from his bed in the night by this cowardly Government.
Hermann Goring, is innocent of high treason. I wish I could say the same for the members of this Government, whose loyalty to ideology, appears greater than loyalty to the Fatherland.
Last edited:
Delex'and Avatar Federal's opposition speeches are now part of the index. About time a real German stood up to oppose this progressive liberal hippie crap about decolonisation! 
-TRP
Edit:
Just to be clear on this, the other side of TRP remains neutral on this issue.
-TRP
Edit:
But since we're joking, who is who here?
-TRP
Edit:
Maybe we should stop before this post becomes spam aswell
-TRP
Edit:
Agreed. Carry on
-TRP
-TRP
Edit:
Just to be clear on this, the other side of TRP remains neutral on this issue.
-TRP
Edit:
But since we're joking, who is who here?
-TRP
Edit:
Maybe we should stop before this post becomes spam aswell
-TRP
Edit:
Agreed. Carry on
-TRP
Last edited:
I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat it. We. Are. Not. Abandoning. Africa.
Our final goal is an educated Africa capable of competent self-rule and strongly aligned with the Kaiserreich. Your analogy of a child is quite apt, actually. If a parent does not let a child experience the world without the parent's protection, the child will never grow up. Similarly, as long as we rule Mittleafrika, Africa will never stand behind Germany on its own two feet.
If they cannot rule themselves, we will teach them how. If they are savages, we will bring them civilization. But just as an army can only be proven in the fires of war, a nation can only be forged through making its own mistakes. We will NOT abandon them. We will advise them and teach them until they CAN rule themselves.
Concerns about resources have been raised. These concerns, perhaps, are the most valid, given the economic recession. However, people of Germany, think upon this. Imagine yourself living in a syndicalist country. Normally, in capitalism, you are motivated to perform better by incentives. In syndicalism, you do not have this motivation, and thus, you do not work as hard. This situation applies equally well to Africa! Currently, African workers have no motivation to stand out, as their lot will not improve. In our gradual decolonization program, they will find that being better is rewarded by being elevated in position. This improves worker efficiency, meaning that, through favorable trade agreements, we actually get MORE resources.
Now, if the objection is to the plan to split up Mittleafrika, that can be reviewed, and perhaps changed. If the objection is to the speed of the plan's implementation, that can also be reviewed, and we can slow it down. However, we WILL decolonize, and our final objective IS a strong, self-ruling Africa that is aligned with the Kaiserreich.
Our final goal is an educated Africa capable of competent self-rule and strongly aligned with the Kaiserreich. Your analogy of a child is quite apt, actually. If a parent does not let a child experience the world without the parent's protection, the child will never grow up. Similarly, as long as we rule Mittleafrika, Africa will never stand behind Germany on its own two feet.
If they cannot rule themselves, we will teach them how. If they are savages, we will bring them civilization. But just as an army can only be proven in the fires of war, a nation can only be forged through making its own mistakes. We will NOT abandon them. We will advise them and teach them until they CAN rule themselves.
Concerns about resources have been raised. These concerns, perhaps, are the most valid, given the economic recession. However, people of Germany, think upon this. Imagine yourself living in a syndicalist country. Normally, in capitalism, you are motivated to perform better by incentives. In syndicalism, you do not have this motivation, and thus, you do not work as hard. This situation applies equally well to Africa! Currently, African workers have no motivation to stand out, as their lot will not improve. In our gradual decolonization program, they will find that being better is rewarded by being elevated in position. This improves worker efficiency, meaning that, through favorable trade agreements, we actually get MORE resources.
Now, if the objection is to the plan to split up Mittleafrika, that can be reviewed, and perhaps changed. If the objection is to the speed of the plan's implementation, that can also be reviewed, and we can slow it down. However, we WILL decolonize, and our final objective IS a strong, self-ruling Africa that is aligned with the Kaiserreich.
Last edited:
Treason: "the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery."
"Goering has defied a direct order from the Chancellor and is now threathening to declare the independence of Mittelafrika and claim the country for himself."
"The country's native population has faced terrible opression under this man who ruled Mittelafrika like his own little empire, exploiting the labourers for his own profit. In violation of every colonial rule ever written, Goering has decisively acted against and lied to the Motherland for years, conceiling his intolerable actions in Mittelafrika."
"....he began to rule as some sort of eccentric warlord, beginning the build of a Bavarian-style castle in Togoland or organizing private safaris in the savannah, for him or prestigious visitors."
"Many police reports affirmed that under Göring's rule, most of Mittelafrika's budget was lost into corruption or drug and arms trafficking."
Even before this "...aggressive policies towards the Estonian and Latvian native populations. Along with other war veterans, he became engaged in local politics and even assaults against remote Native places, such as attacks against isolated farms. The scandal blew out in 1929, then Göring was wounded during a gunfight near a Latvian village in western United Baltic Duchy."
Göring was unable to handle the position granted to him. When that position, granted by the government and Kaiser, was revoked he refused and went into open revolt. I can't see how you can say he is innocent of high treason, as his actions are the very definition of the word.
Your accusations that the government is run by traitors is highly offensive. Not only is it offensive to the people that are working around the clock to strengthen Germany's military, economy, and position as a superpower, but it is an affront to the Kaiser himself, who accepted party submissions to the government posts.
OOC:
Thank you C_c. It's getting quite annoying that people are posting without reading about the background to the Kaiserreich scenario. I linked the Kaiserreich wiki, written by the AUTHORS of the scenario, last page. Those are non-debatable facts about the Realpolitik world, not written by us.
Thank you C_c. It's getting quite annoying that people are posting without reading about the background to the Kaiserreich scenario. I linked the Kaiserreich wiki, written by the AUTHORS of the scenario, last page. Those are non-debatable facts about the Realpolitik world, not written by us.
OOC: Because there appears to be a need
Ahem... I mean
IC:
This is a procedural checklist for the Muller Plan to clear up any confusion the outline has generated.
Step One - Survey
Phase one of the Muller Plan calls for a detailed survey of all overseas holdings to determine the current underlying trends amongst the populations of our colonies, followed by the generation of a report on what each region needs to become self-sufficent upon release from direct colonial rule.
This is an ongoing process that is being performed right now.
Step Two - Political Alignment
Once we have conducted the detailed survey of the colonies, we can then determine the best distribution of territory for future contries. Not only ethnicity, but self-sustainabilty needs to be taken into account, as well as ensuring close ties are kept with the Fatherland.
This step appears to still be under debate. Originaly there seemed to be a majority consensus to form larger federal countries after some were worried about a unified Africa
Step Three - Investment
Once the political units have been determined, a large scale investment program may begin. Each new country shall recieve at the minimum (please excuse the game terms here) 5 IC and infastructure boosts, as well as adequate personell to operate the infastructure and teach new workers.
This is currently not possible due to the financial crisis. An estimated five years are needed for this step.
Step Four - Independence
Once enough investment has occured to render the new political unit self-sustainable, free elections may be held to determine the new government of said unit, afterwhich homerule may be established.
Suitable investment has not yet occured due to the financial crisis.
The Muller Plan for Dummies
Ahem... I mean
IC:
A Step by Step Guide to the Muller Plan as Opposed to an Outline of Finer Points
This is a procedural checklist for the Muller Plan to clear up any confusion the outline has generated.
Step One - Survey
Phase one of the Muller Plan calls for a detailed survey of all overseas holdings to determine the current underlying trends amongst the populations of our colonies, followed by the generation of a report on what each region needs to become self-sufficent upon release from direct colonial rule.
This is an ongoing process that is being performed right now.
Step Two - Political Alignment
Once we have conducted the detailed survey of the colonies, we can then determine the best distribution of territory for future contries. Not only ethnicity, but self-sustainabilty needs to be taken into account, as well as ensuring close ties are kept with the Fatherland.
This step appears to still be under debate. Originaly there seemed to be a majority consensus to form larger federal countries after some were worried about a unified Africa
Step Three - Investment
Once the political units have been determined, a large scale investment program may begin. Each new country shall recieve at the minimum (please excuse the game terms here) 5 IC and infastructure boosts, as well as adequate personell to operate the infastructure and teach new workers.
This is currently not possible due to the financial crisis. An estimated five years are needed for this step.
Step Four - Independence
Once enough investment has occured to render the new political unit self-sustainable, free elections may be held to determine the new government of said unit, afterwhich homerule may be established.
Suitable investment has not yet occured due to the financial crisis.
Yes, you are. When we end Mittelafrika, and it's colonization efforts, we are abandoning Africa to Syndicalism and Entente interests. I have seen, and reviewed the Muller Plan. Handing Africa over to the Africans for their own self-government with no direct German control is a nightmare.
You stand on the brink of German Greatness, the current situation of the world puts us at a point on which we can either advance and truly become the only Hegemon, or if we are not assertive in our Foreign Policy, a world in which Germany is weakened, castrated, and the puppet of Syndicalist influences.
We don't want or need Afrika to stand on it's own two feet if we rule Afrika. The child is too young, Afrika is too weak. Afrika, relies upon the efforts of Germany to keep it safe.
We do not have time to spare! Already the Syndicalists are laughing and preparing to feast on German land. You are bringing in a huge amount of instablity by attempting to completely change how the current system works.
We need a stable and safe supply of resources to continue our growth as a nation, for unification of the Germanic People.
You are risking everything, all of China, all of Mittelafrika... with the potential gain of... absolutely nothing. You put all of our strategic interests at risk with out any hope of a gain. What happens if Syndicalism spreads to Africa? What will you do then? Go around and re-invade and conquer all of our colonies?
Don't be silly.
This is a time for strengthening our Foreign influence and ensuring resource use.
Yes, I know the word well. After seeing how you have betrayed the trust and confidence of every German citizen when you surrender German lands.
When the Chancellor in question, is issuing an edict or order that stands in stark contrasts to the interest of the Fatherland, I expect that man to disobey.
Goering, never declared independence, he only threatened it if the Government continued decolonization. Which I believe was the most courageous act for Herr Goering.
Herr Goring is not being tried for what happened in the United Baltic Duchy. The only contention I have is this notion of "treason".
As are yours in your attempt to destroy all that Germans have worked to build.
Once again, I am not against a reform of the colonies. Something must be done, but the independence of Africa is out of the question.
Good debate, remember to keep it clean Avatar and AOM
Enjoy the game!
-TRP
----
Alexon47 will be making sporadic appearances from now on, he will assist us in checking the posts for rule violations and will also make 'referee' comments if he feels someone stepts out of line. We are sorry for these Stasi policies, but we have explained before that we will keep short leash from now.
Enjoy the game!
-TRP
Fortune favors the bold, Avatar Federal. By loosening our grip, we show the Africans that while the Syndicalists make empty promises, we take decisive action. Syndicalism markets itself as the ideology of liberation, and by clamping down on Africa, we are playing into the hands of the syndicalists.
As for Goering: you are misunderstanding our process. I will explain it.
1. Goering was proven a brute and an incompetent in the Baltics.
2. Goering was transferred to Mittleafrika.
3. Goering carried on what he did in the Baltics in Mittleafrika.
4. Due to his actions as the governer of Mittleafrika, we ordered him back to Berlin for an investigation and possible prosecution OF HIS ALLEGED CRIMES AS GOVERNER.
5. He refused a perfectly legal order from the office of the Chancellor and declared himself independent of His Majesty. This is treason.
As for Goering: you are misunderstanding our process. I will explain it.
1. Goering was proven a brute and an incompetent in the Baltics.
2. Goering was transferred to Mittleafrika.
3. Goering carried on what he did in the Baltics in Mittleafrika.
4. Due to his actions as the governer of Mittleafrika, we ordered him back to Berlin for an investigation and possible prosecution OF HIS ALLEGED CRIMES AS GOVERNER.
5. He refused a perfectly legal order from the office of the Chancellor and declared himself independent of His Majesty. This is treason.
"Reichskanzler Alfred von Tirpitz ordered a report about Mittelafrika's situations, and it confirmed what he has feared: it was a financial black hole for the German economy. Too overstretched, strained with native revolts, needing too many infrastructure and economic improvements, German Africa would soon become a dead weight as spending for military and administrative purposes would far exceed the income from mining and economic exploitation."
It's not a stable or safe supply. It costs more to maintain than it gives back.
On what grounds? I have evidence of Goering's betrayal. Also, why is it ok for Goering to be a traitor? You can't have one and not the other. Either both are, or both aren't, otherwise you're being selective.
On what grounds is the Chancellor in question? Please provide proof.
Yes, actually, he did.
"After hearing news of the Muller plan and the new government's policy to remove Goring from Africa, the Kaiserreich official has now declared himself independent from the Motherland, and has fallen into the delusional belief that he himself is the rightous ruler of Mittelafrika."
Correct. But it shows you that your 'honorable war hero' is anything but. He is on trial for treason, and his abuse of his position. There is evidence for both. What he did is treason by the definition.
So why is it ok for him, but not for someone else according to you?
On what grounds? The Muller Plan has been publicly know for awhile. Why protest it now? Why not earlier? Or is it just because of Goering?
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10610471&postcount=1648
Full independence, if that points is ever reached, isn't being discussed.
"Once enough investment has occured to render the new political unit self-sustainable, free elections may be held to determine the new government of said unit, afterwhich homerule may be established."
Home rule does not equal full independence.
Announcing the Creation of the Deutsche Reichspartei
Issues:
Foreign Policy:
Colonization and General Information
1. The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes the need for the continued dominance of Germany in Foreign Affairs. Our colonies represent our first line of defence in the fight against Syndicalism and Entente influence. All colonies will be defended fully.
2. The Deutsche Reichspartei realizes that Germany... does not yet contain all the Germanic Peoples. The Deutsche Reichspartei seeks to unite all Germans under the German Empire.
This will form the core of the Empire, the "German" part, other areas will be acquired in Europe, Asia, Amerika, and Afrika to adequately defend Germany.
3. The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes the need for preventing Syndicalism from spreading. Military intervention will always be on the table for preventing the spread of Syndicalism.
4. The Deutsche Reichspartei seeks to ally with the Ottoman Empire, the United States, La Plata, and Spain.
5. The Deutsche Reichspartei actively advocates for "Realpolitik" as the guiding factor of all decisions.
Mitteleuropa Policy:
1. The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes that Mitteleuropa must be annexed into the Reich.
2. The Deutsche Reichspartei believes that this will be a slow process of Germanization, and cultural imperialism. Force, will be used only when necessary or in the case of resistance.
3. Does this sound like a loosely defined process? Well, it should. We're going to advance with annexation as opportunities present themselves.
Domestic Policy:
Education:
The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes that the future of the Reich is within the children. Thus, the Deutsche Reichspartei has three elements for education:
1. A solid base in the sciences, mathematics, biology, chemistry, engineering etc. so that we may be the unequaled champion of science.
2. A solid base in the social sciences and cultural study, literature, history, music, sociology, psychology etc. so that our children are able to understand why German dominance must remain.
3. A solid base in German civics. Duty to the Reich, is the primary virtue of all German citizens.
The Deutsche Reichspartei supports free education for all citizens that enlist with the German military.
Economy
The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes that especially in times of Economic Crisis like the current one, support must be given to the citizens. For this reason the Deutsche Reichspartei supports a theory of Economics called:
Military Keynesianism
The unemployment rate is high, people are making less purchases than they were a year ago, and overall output is flat.
There are four reasons as to why we should go to war and invest in Military Spending.
First, on the demand side, increased military demand for goods and services is generated directly by government spending.
Secondly, this direct spending induces a multiplier effect of general consumer spending.
Third, on the supply side the maintenance of a standing army removes many workers, from the civilian workforce.
Fourth, enlistment offers direct opportunities for education or skill acquisition.
Also, by bringing more colonial lands into the Reich, we shall gain access to new markets, meaning we can increase demand for our products.
The Annexation and War with Mitteleuropa will open the door to German companies for reconstruction, once again creating new markets.
Because of the current very high and rising unemployment rates among young men and women, it would make sense to depart from the military to bring in recruits. As a minimum this would provide education in a variety of technical skills -- electronics, equipment maintenance, computer programming, experience, etc. -- that would lead to better civilian careers for this group. It would also provide a larger reserve force that could be called upon if needed by the military in the future. Creating a strong army of veterans for when we invade France.
Role of Women in Society
1. No suffrage. May support and campaign for parties and candidates, but not vote or run as a candidate.
2. No military service. May work in auxiliary nursing roles.
Social Cohesion
1. The Deutsche Reichspartei believes that an oath should be taken by all German Citizens it goes...
"We, members of the Deutsche Reich, swear allegiance and obedience to the Fatherland, and swear to protect to the death all German held lands. We swear to expand the Deutsche Reich, till all Germans are unified. We will never rebel against the Government, unless it is contradictory to the above goals."
2. German-ness, isn't defined by Race or Ethnicity. It is defined by German culture and language. All races and ethnicities are welcome to become citizens, so long as they respect and know German culture and language.
Role of the Kaiser
1. The Kaiser ought be eliminated from the Government entirely and relegated to a position of powerless Head of State. We suggest his Imperial Majesty begin learning to wave and smile.
The Deutsche Reichspartei realizes that the supreme power lies not in the Kaiser's hands, but the hands of the German people.
Conclusion:
So, Citizens of the Reich, let us go forward together, remembering the destiny and duty Germany has to the world.
Deutsche Reichspartei
Es ist das Schicksal von Deutschland in die Welt zu beherrschen.
Issues:
Foreign Policy:
Colonization and General Information
1. The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes the need for the continued dominance of Germany in Foreign Affairs. Our colonies represent our first line of defence in the fight against Syndicalism and Entente influence. All colonies will be defended fully.
2. The Deutsche Reichspartei realizes that Germany... does not yet contain all the Germanic Peoples. The Deutsche Reichspartei seeks to unite all Germans under the German Empire.
This will form the core of the Empire, the "German" part, other areas will be acquired in Europe, Asia, Amerika, and Afrika to adequately defend Germany.
3. The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes the need for preventing Syndicalism from spreading. Military intervention will always be on the table for preventing the spread of Syndicalism.
4. The Deutsche Reichspartei seeks to ally with the Ottoman Empire, the United States, La Plata, and Spain.
5. The Deutsche Reichspartei actively advocates for "Realpolitik" as the guiding factor of all decisions.
Mitteleuropa Policy:
1. The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes that Mitteleuropa must be annexed into the Reich.
2. The Deutsche Reichspartei believes that this will be a slow process of Germanization, and cultural imperialism. Force, will be used only when necessary or in the case of resistance.
3. Does this sound like a loosely defined process? Well, it should. We're going to advance with annexation as opportunities present themselves.
Domestic Policy:
Education:
The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes that the future of the Reich is within the children. Thus, the Deutsche Reichspartei has three elements for education:
1. A solid base in the sciences, mathematics, biology, chemistry, engineering etc. so that we may be the unequaled champion of science.
2. A solid base in the social sciences and cultural study, literature, history, music, sociology, psychology etc. so that our children are able to understand why German dominance must remain.
3. A solid base in German civics. Duty to the Reich, is the primary virtue of all German citizens.
The Deutsche Reichspartei supports free education for all citizens that enlist with the German military.
Economy
The Deutsche Reichspartei recognizes that especially in times of Economic Crisis like the current one, support must be given to the citizens. For this reason the Deutsche Reichspartei supports a theory of Economics called:
Military Keynesianism
The unemployment rate is high, people are making less purchases than they were a year ago, and overall output is flat.
There are four reasons as to why we should go to war and invest in Military Spending.
First, on the demand side, increased military demand for goods and services is generated directly by government spending.
Secondly, this direct spending induces a multiplier effect of general consumer spending.
Third, on the supply side the maintenance of a standing army removes many workers, from the civilian workforce.
Fourth, enlistment offers direct opportunities for education or skill acquisition.
Also, by bringing more colonial lands into the Reich, we shall gain access to new markets, meaning we can increase demand for our products.
The Annexation and War with Mitteleuropa will open the door to German companies for reconstruction, once again creating new markets.
Because of the current very high and rising unemployment rates among young men and women, it would make sense to depart from the military to bring in recruits. As a minimum this would provide education in a variety of technical skills -- electronics, equipment maintenance, computer programming, experience, etc. -- that would lead to better civilian careers for this group. It would also provide a larger reserve force that could be called upon if needed by the military in the future. Creating a strong army of veterans for when we invade France.
Role of Women in Society
1. No suffrage. May support and campaign for parties and candidates, but not vote or run as a candidate.
2. No military service. May work in auxiliary nursing roles.
Social Cohesion
1. The Deutsche Reichspartei believes that an oath should be taken by all German Citizens it goes...
"We, members of the Deutsche Reich, swear allegiance and obedience to the Fatherland, and swear to protect to the death all German held lands. We swear to expand the Deutsche Reich, till all Germans are unified. We will never rebel against the Government, unless it is contradictory to the above goals."
2. German-ness, isn't defined by Race or Ethnicity. It is defined by German culture and language. All races and ethnicities are welcome to become citizens, so long as they respect and know German culture and language.
Role of the Kaiser
1. The Kaiser ought be eliminated from the Government entirely and relegated to a position of powerless Head of State. We suggest his Imperial Majesty begin learning to wave and smile.
The Deutsche Reichspartei realizes that the supreme power lies not in the Kaiser's hands, but the hands of the German people.
Conclusion:
So, Citizens of the Reich, let us go forward together, remembering the destiny and duty Germany has to the world.
Last edited:
Why you should support the Junck plan
I have seen criticism to the Junck plan but I ask you, what is wrong. We does not need to invaded. (I stated that in a old post) In fact to support the ottomans we must make them more suitable. Oh yea lets take over Arabia for them *sarcasm* could you imagine the revolts. Lets all make a joint deal. The ottomans must create these nations and then we shall support them. One may ask that they (the ottomans) will refuse to do so. But they have no choice, They will fight a 3 front war maybe even 4 if Georgia gets involved. The empire is weak and unstable, they represent a fallen roman empire and if we support them then guess what? There Unstablilty will come to us as the roman empire did to the Byzantines. I ask you, all of you to at least consider what I am saying.
Response to mister B
"If the administration decides to help the Arab League against the Ottoman Empire, I will find myself very confused as to what this administration actually wants. After a so hard campaign against the syndicalists, they would turn their back on a friendly state and support a syndicalists nation?"
Mister B, we wont help the syndicates, not even close. The plan calls to bring self rule to the people of the empire as we are doing in middle Africa. Soon afterwords the Arabs will be delt with but by exerting pressure on Hejaz and Oman forcing them to join the Arab federation. Persia must give up land to Arabs and Kurd via invasion, while egypt will be rendered useless against the new states. The plan also creates a more powerful cacuas against Russia and actually gives the cossaks a chance to fight.
Response to TheOracle
"(the Junck Plan)In my eyes unacceptable. We have always recognised the Ottoman Empire as a friendly independent nation. We cannot invade any nation at will. Think of the impact this will have on future attempts to find allies. I feel we should recognise the influence sphere of the Ottoman Empire and work together for a solution. Dictating the Ottomans will only drive more nations into the claws of Syndicalism."
The plan will save the ottomans from falling into syndicalism. I agree war should not happen but they abused the population which they serve which is the same reason why middle Africa is dying.
I have seen criticism to the Junck plan but I ask you, what is wrong. We does not need to invaded. (I stated that in a old post) In fact to support the ottomans we must make them more suitable. Oh yea lets take over Arabia for them *sarcasm* could you imagine the revolts. Lets all make a joint deal. The ottomans must create these nations and then we shall support them. One may ask that they (the ottomans) will refuse to do so. But they have no choice, They will fight a 3 front war maybe even 4 if Georgia gets involved. The empire is weak and unstable, they represent a fallen roman empire and if we support them then guess what? There Unstablilty will come to us as the roman empire did to the Byzantines. I ask you, all of you to at least consider what I am saying.
Response to mister B
"If the administration decides to help the Arab League against the Ottoman Empire, I will find myself very confused as to what this administration actually wants. After a so hard campaign against the syndicalists, they would turn their back on a friendly state and support a syndicalists nation?"
Mister B, we wont help the syndicates, not even close. The plan calls to bring self rule to the people of the empire as we are doing in middle Africa. Soon afterwords the Arabs will be delt with but by exerting pressure on Hejaz and Oman forcing them to join the Arab federation. Persia must give up land to Arabs and Kurd via invasion, while egypt will be rendered useless against the new states. The plan also creates a more powerful cacuas against Russia and actually gives the cossaks a chance to fight.
Response to TheOracle
"(the Junck Plan)In my eyes unacceptable. We have always recognised the Ottoman Empire as a friendly independent nation. We cannot invade any nation at will. Think of the impact this will have on future attempts to find allies. I feel we should recognise the influence sphere of the Ottoman Empire and work together for a solution. Dictating the Ottomans will only drive more nations into the claws of Syndicalism."
The plan will save the ottomans from falling into syndicalism. I agree war should not happen but they abused the population which they serve which is the same reason why middle Africa is dying.
A very strong point Delex, but after some investigation of the page of the Prussian Conservative Party. (Your Party). I found the following quote.
This quote was given as a response to Mad General, link is here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/group.php?groupid=274
Delex said:
Hmmph. Seems like you are ferrying in an autocracy in the guise of a democratic reform. I for one stand for the implementation of the 20+1 system, which would give minor parties a greater say in politics of the nation.
On a side note, why is an author of the AAR allowed to participate in the AAR? It seems like that has provided some slanting towards the party of his choosing.
Consitutional Change
Avatar Federals plan is great except for the Kaiser, why must we get rid of the leader of the Fatherland!
The Kaiser Question in Deutsche Reichspartei: I propose we create a position of Royal or Imperial Minister or Secretary*. He will serve as chairman of a 10 person council, the Imperial Council. The Chancler will apoint 5 memebers, and the Kaiser (TRP can be him also I guess) will appoint 5, the Kaiser will appoint the Chairman/Minister. This will serve as a Supreme Court, and a go between for the Kingdoms, (Saxony etc) and the Parliment. The Council's 5 memebers appointed by the Chancler must be of the Majority/Ruling Party, while the memebers appointed via the Kaiser. I also propose that seats in Parliment be given for every tarritory taken (France for example). However, they cannot vote, but rather voice their opion. A Shadow Cabinet, created by each party should also be made, so if they gain a majority, their government is essentially already formed.
*can I get a position on this council if it is created?:rofl:
Avatar Federals plan is great except for the Kaiser, why must we get rid of the leader of the Fatherland!
The Kaiser Question in Deutsche Reichspartei: I propose we create a position of Royal or Imperial Minister or Secretary*. He will serve as chairman of a 10 person council, the Imperial Council. The Chancler will apoint 5 memebers, and the Kaiser (TRP can be him also I guess) will appoint 5, the Kaiser will appoint the Chairman/Minister. This will serve as a Supreme Court, and a go between for the Kingdoms, (Saxony etc) and the Parliment. The Council's 5 memebers appointed by the Chancler must be of the Majority/Ruling Party, while the memebers appointed via the Kaiser. I also propose that seats in Parliment be given for every tarritory taken (France for example). However, they cannot vote, but rather voice their opion. A Shadow Cabinet, created by each party should also be made, so if they gain a majority, their government is essentially already formed.
*can I get a position on this council if it is created?:rofl:
@Kovan09: I think that this plan might be a bit too extreme though. It calls for the destruction of the Ottoman Empire in favor of more ethnically clean nations, but I don’t see why this is necessary, the Ottomans are promoting Ottomanism. It would be a stronger state if we just helped them through this period, the aggressive dismemberment of the state might also cause larger revolts within the new states from people that feel that this is an invasion from the west, or support the Empire. If the people that revolt are able to overthrow the new governments, we might never gain their trust again, thus losing the middle-east. Maybe you should consider only forcing the Ottoman Empire to release the Arab Federation. Personally I am not convinced that the Junck Plan will work as we hope it will, it is a large risk.
@Avatar Federal; Announcing the Creation of the Deutsche Reichspartei: If this party had been around when the last election was held, I would have exchanged my NUP vote for it, and if things don’t change drastically until the next election I will give a vote to your party, good to see such a strong party enter the scene.
I wish your party good luck.
@Avatar Federal; Announcing the Creation of the Deutsche Reichspartei: If this party had been around when the last election was held, I would have exchanged my NUP vote for it, and if things don’t change drastically until the next election I will give a vote to your party, good to see such a strong party enter the scene.
I wish your party good luck.
The real problem is that the ottomans can not manage the empire any more. When the arabs are created, they will claim mosul, kirkuk, northern syria which are kurdish regions. This will divide the kurds and cause problems for them. another problem is that if the arabs are realeased then the ottomans will most likely stand agianst them. With the kurdish state, it will divide arabs and turks as a barier and gives them rights to take kurdish lands from the persians forcing persia into a weaker state due to its problems it has caused.
- Status