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great_chairman said:
Regarding Germany's colonies, the Prussian Conservative Party stands by the teachings of Otto von Bismarck. One of his most famous sayings was "My map of Africa lies in Europe" - he stood against colonial adventurism. Why should Germany wander around the world, when it is in Europe that great issues are decided? Why should Germany spread its assets so thin, when Germany proper is in crisis?
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Why accepted Kaiser the peace treaty then if he not likes colonies?
Why did he took half Africa?
PCP are nothing then liars! LISTEN TO ME!
JOIN NCRP AND BE CURED FROM THE INFECTION STARTED BY PCP!

And if you want the german people on your side about the trial, then you should give Göring 1 year in prison!
 
Hax said:
Göring would never revolt if not the Muller Plane where made!
The government have failed! AGAIN!
And now you accuse him for your crimes!
BE Ashamed, PCP aren't you conservatives?
Why are you then giving colonies if you are so conservatives then!
HAH ANSWER THAT!


JRHINDO welcome back! :rolleyes:
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Goering was well known already for his ambitions to make Mittleafrika his "own personal empire" so to speak. He would have gone rouge either way. The basic principals behind the Muller Plan was agreed on pre-elections in a non-partisan debate as the consensus of the majority, therefore I do not appreciate these attacks on it now.
 
Hax said:
I have never played KR;)
What's the problem?
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Read this.

He had a Bavarian castle built for himself in Togoland! If that's not misappropriation of state funds...
 
TRP said:
Double post there Hax, copy paste multi quotes in one post, because this counts as spam, just a warning.

-TRP
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Sorry:( changed

TRP will you adopt the system Delex made?

great_chairman said:
Read this.

He had a Bavarian castle built for himself in Togoland! If that's not misappropriation of state funds...
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What shall I read in the Kaiserpedia?

The castle he have earned! He is the HoS of German Africa, he have deserved that.

Goodnight everybody!:p
 
Hax said:
Sorry:(

TRP will you adopt the system Delex made?

Goodnight everybody!:p
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Personally, I like the 20+1 modification of the system - more representative, especially for the smaller parties.
 
The people that want to see Goering go unpunished on the basis on him being a war hero have exposed the type of government they would run. This government would be corrupt to the core, the people that commit crimes but have the support of the government, or individuals within the government, would go unpunished. A system where political favors and get-out-of-jail freecards would rule. Only those that weren’t liked would be punished, the powerful and strong would be protected. That would not be a place that anyone but the rich and powerful would want to live.

So for the sake of the German people, punish him! A crime is a crime no matter who does it! Never must we protect crime!
 
I support Delex's democracy proposition.
 
A Response to the Chancellor

A Response to the Chancellor
​

Herr Goring, should not be the man on trial. The man on trial should be great_chairman, and FlyingDutchie, for their efforts to weaken Germany.

Herr Goring, was and is a brave man committed to fighting for our Kaiser and German interests. His exemplary record flying during the Weltkrieg is an illustration of how committed he is to fighting the enemies of the Reich.

Make no mistake men and women of the Kaiserreich, Goring is not the man who should be on trial. Goring's efforts in resisting decolonization were of a higher and purer form of patriotism than loyalty to the whims of a coalition bent on weakening German hegemony.

Goring's rejection of the Muller Plan provides a shining example of how Germans ought act against all those who try to restrict Germany's growth.

When forced to decide between loyalty to Germany and the German peoples, or loyalty to the liberal weaklings of the Reichstag, Goring made the right choice to reject the Muller Plan, and protect German interests.
While I do not, and never will condone rebellion against the German Government, Goring was not fomenting a rebellion, merely rejecting a path which many members of this Reichstag disagree with.


There were no reasons to overthrow his legitimate governance over Mittelafrika, he wanted to expand the interests of German people.

great_chairman said:
Excuse me? Who was stealing from the German people again? Who was brutally oppressing the Kaiser's subjects again? Let us ignore whether he is guilty of treason or not, for the moment. Surely, in the face of incontestable evidence, we can all agree that at the very least, Goering was a brute, a liar, and a thief?

Regarding Germany's colonies, the Prussian Conservative Party stands by the teachings of Otto von Bismarck. One of his most famous sayings was "My map of Africa lies in Europe" - he stood against colonial adventurism. Why should Germany wander around the world, when it is in Europe that great issues are decided? Why should Germany spread its assets so thin, when Germany proper is in crisis?
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Yet, he is not being tried for mismanagement of funds, even if that were true. This Government is charging him with high treason. Herr Goring, did not betray Germany. This government forced his hand, and the hand of all loyal Germans through the illegitimate Muller Plan.

I say it is illegitimate because German blood has been spilled to gain those lands, and you would surrender the effort of the Germanic people for... nothing?

Germany must hold on to it's colonies, they provide critical resources, and a large reserve of... primitive peoples to be utilized for maintaining German greatness.

When the great Karl Peters landed upon the shores of Africa with his expedition, they did not know if the colony would survive. But it did and eventually grew to Freistaat Mittelafrika. German glory, and German greatness depend upon us holding on to the lands gained by our ancestors, and expanding them into the future.

dr1.jpg

German interests, must be protected.

Anything less than a complete defense of all German colonial lands, is treason, not to the Kaiser, not to the Government, but to that most sacred nation and people, The German Fatherland, and all the Germanic peoples whether they live within the Kaiserreich, or not. The Germans of Amerika, Mitteleuropa, Netherlands, Switzerland, Scandinavia, and Austria. We must defend our colonies, and work towards the unification of all the German peoples.

Hermann Goring recognized this, and fought against those would violate the most sacred principle of German domination. This, and this alone is an act of such courage that demands that the Germanic people declare his innocence.

great_chairman, and FlyingDutchie are sending us down a darker path the likes of which we have never known since the Weltkrieg.
--------------------------
OOC

"The few obligations that the Freistaat has towards Germany are delivery of a monthly tribute (in money and valuable resources), handling of military control if the German interests need it, and faithfulness to the Kaiser."

So long as he remained faithful to the Kaiser, and delivered a monthly tribute, he was completely legitimate.

http://editthis.info/kaiserreich/Mittelafrika
 
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Nay, let Mittelafrika march onward on its own. Bismarck was intelligent in that phrase- Africa, to put it lightly, is a godforsaken hellhole moneypit of a continent. All we have there is previously exploited land and generally surly natives, angry towards us for exploitation. Let Africa thrive and pay us tribute, and let Goring see the barrel of the gun or the noose of the gallows. He has no value, he has committed crimes against African German citizens, and for his crimes his life must cease. We must honor the blood of past German soldiers by letting Africa live under the rule of a native African, white or black, loyal to Germany. Keeping Africa will only lead to more German blood being spilled for worthless land already stripped of wealth.

On the new Democracy proposal, I say nay; the current system works perfectly fine, with the exception of the needless spam spawned in all threads by elections.
 
Actually, those are some of the accusations levelled towards him. (OOC: read TRP's update for details)

So, the only accusation in question is treason? Then we can begin to debate this.

Also: Avatar Federal, you are a member of the PCP by your own free will, yes? Our primary position is to follow Bismarck's teachings, one of which was to avoid colonial adventures, for they would only weaken Germany. Do you disagree with this?
 
We need to keep Mittelafrika. This is not classical colony like Ceylon or Indochina, if we make wise decisions about relations with this semi-independent state, Mittelafrika can survive at least for 70 more years!


aus15.jpg


aus9-2.jpg
 
great_chairman said:
So, the only accusation in question is treason? Then we can begin to debate this.
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Yes, I believe so. After having seen evidence of colonial mismanagement, it is quite obvious Hermann did indeed deserve to be removed... but that is not what we're debating. We're debating the legitimacy of his removal because of his rejection of the Muller Plan.

However, by rejecting the Muller Plan he showed himself to be one of the greatest patriots and nationalists in Germany's history.

You forget, as many members of this body [Reichstag] forget, that Mittelafrika provides rubber for our industry, Some of the main mineral resources of Mittelafrika include gold, diamonds, uranium, and oil. All of these are critical for our development, and eventual unification of all the Germanic Peoples.

We can not simply give them self rule, they are ignorant savages who must be taught, and there is no better tutelage than service under the German Empire.

Perhaps more autonomy can eventually be given to them, but I highly doubt it. The Africans are too ignorant to manage their own affairs, and need German Paternalism to keep them safe. Without German troops and police there, they would fight each other and Mittelafrika would turn to anarchy, blood would flow through the rivers of Central Africa, and bodies would cover the ground.

The simple fact is that there are practical, useful reasons that show why we must maintain control of Mittelafrika for the resources, and natives that can be taught to serve. But also humanitarian reasons, without German influence, the poor Africans could not manage.

Goring recognized this, and in the spirit of a true German patriot, resisted your defeatist plans for weakening Germany.

(OOC Note: This is completely untrue, of course Africans can manage on their own and deserve complete self-government, and human rights.)

great_chairman said:
Also: Avatar Federal, you are a member of the PCP by your own free will, yes? Our primary position is to follow Bismarck's teachings, one of which was to avoid colonial adventures, for they would only weaken Germany. Do you disagree with this?
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I was a member of the PCP, mainly because I felt the Haxists and Alexists would do something stupid and go to war with France, etc. I realize that I should have, and probably now will start my own party. Consider this my letter of "resignation" from the PCP.

In this case, Bismarck was wrong. My allegiance is not to Bismarck, but to Germany, and the inherent greatness of the Germanic People.
 
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OOC : You should have joined my party! That way it could've been something more than it was. (It would have 5 members!)

Actually, I'm wondering about coming back in 1940 elections or sometime like that if Germany will fall under hard times.

Also the way I see it, Goring got all that because he was bad in RL. This is alternative timeline and like it's written in Kaiserreich Freistaat didn't had that many obligations. The only reason Goring is going to be sentenced, is because the government suddenly decided to take notice of it's colonies and haven't informed anyone before they done it.
 
OAM said:
OOC: That isn't an accurate map of Mittleafrika, and those other pics show you converted it to MDS2 :confused:
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Oh, those are just pics from my AAR, I just wanted to show the bright future of Mittelafrika.
 
Avatar Federal, I believe that 'developing' Africa was part of the Muller Plan. You will find its full details somewhere back in discussion, but rest assured, the LAST thing we intend to do is throw the Africans the metaphorical key and walk away. Our final objective is a self-ruled African democracy strongly aligned with the Kaiserreich, and that is the direction we are headed in. To simply evacuate Africa is an even worse option then continuing our colonial rule.
 
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