• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(13)

Banned
Jan 12, 2000
2.125
0
Visit site
1635-1680. Part 5.


1644-1680. Sharing a close tie..France and Poland suffer devastating defeats.


France & Poland

France is split almost in half with the Spanish taking possession of Peitou, Berri, Bourgogne after several disastrous wars against the Dutch and the Spanish from 1635-1645. A war against England in 1652 with support from Poland brings Prussia in on the English side. Thorn is captured by the Poles after bloody fighting, whilst the Poles are forced to search for a quick peace due to the secession of the Ukraine. Despite this a French army arrives in the Baltic and lays siege to Konigsberg, the capital of Prussia. After several unsuccessful stormings of this extremely well defended city, it is captured and the French take control of the territory (eastern Prussia). Prussia has been partitioned between Poland and France, this time decisively. The war against England turns into a stalemate and a status quo is signed in 1660. In Nov 1660, just before the conclusion of a defensive alliance with the Poles (who themselves have been seriously weakened), the Turks declare war on France .. battles occuring in Turkish Tyrol (formerly Austrian territory) and French Helvetia. The French plead for Polish assistance against this onslaught of eastern alliance, though the Poles refuse due to three key issues. Despite this the war ends in a status quo.

a} They themselves have been involved in several disastrous wars in the last 25 yrs, after the high of the victorious war against the Ottomans. They are in no position to fight the combined Ottoman armies right now. Especially since the Turks and Crimeans themselves border part of their country.

b} The independence of the Ukraine. For the 2nd time in this GC. This time however it seems like it will likely last for quite some time.

c} Sweden joining with the Ottoman alliance. Had the Poles dec war on the alliance, not only Ottoman armies, but Swedish as well would have flooded the country bringing total destruction.

The Poles, meanwhile weakened and busy fighting very resistant Cossack armies in their eastern territories are invaded by the Hanseatic league together with their allies, the Teutonic Order. The Order moves into Polotsk, storming the city with few losses whilst a huge Hanseatic army in excess of 40,000 moves into eastern Pommeria and lays siege to Kolberg. (remembering that e. pommeria was ceded to the Poles some while back after the Hansa was defeated together with the Order some 100+ yrs ago). Seems the Hansa has taken advantage of Polish weakness. Kolberg capitulates within a week and the Poles are forced into peace negotiations, worried about a possible Muscovite invasion. E. Pommeria is given to the Hansa, whilst Polotsk is given back to the Poles. Despite this, the Muscovites now declare war on the Poles in 1662. Lipetsk and Tambov fall to the Muscovites (far, far Polish territories once belonging to the Muscovites and Kazan previous to 1520.) despite Muscovite losses to much smaller Polish armies. The Tsar demands the secession of these two territories (s.e of Moscow) in exchange for peace, else he'll move further west..). The Poles must accept. In 1665 despite the taking of several Cossack cities and fortresses the |Poles, totally exhausted must look for peace, taking back Pripet, Chernigov and Belgorod, leaving the Ukraine, Poltava, Kremetjug and Podolia in Ukranian hands on sign of cease-fire.
It's been a bad 20+ years for the French and Poles, they are staring at possible oblivion.


1670-1680 French-Polish-Dutch-Spanish wars.

The French involve themselves with three difficult wars within the course of this decade. Two wars are thought against the Dutch (1670-71, 1676-80) and one against the Spanish from 1675-76. The French are defeated soundly by the Dutch in both cases, though they do manage to hold out very well against the Spanish recovering some of the territory that was ceded to the Spanish previously. Despite this, the 1676-80 war is the most costly and devastating. The French declare war in early 1676 hoping to recover some lost ground against the Dutch. The Dutch armies however, move through n. France like a hot knife through butter. Between Jan-April of 1677, Paris, Orleans, Reims and Calais falls to the unstoppable Dutch force. The French meanwhile are unable to retake Auxerre. In December, 1677 the Dutch are even so bold enough as to try a coastal invasion of eastern Prussia (Konigsberg, French territory), though they are annihilated to a man as a combined force of 59,000 French and 30,000 Poles overwhelms the 20,000 man Dutch expaditionary force, defeating them from the walls of Konigsberg and then routing them on the field during the retreat. Despite this, the Dutch continue to hold strong ground in n. France, the French unable to conscript decisively large armies to throw the well established invader out. In Jan 1680, Orleans and Picardre is handed over to the Dutch for the price of peace. Much of south west / central and ne/western French territory is now in Dutch and Spanish hands. The Dutch especially have taken some rather wealthy French provinces .. If the Dutch and Spanish ever ally officially, France is doomed unless she can secure more powerful allies closer to home. Deary me, imagine an English-Dutch-Spanish alliance? France would be toast. It could be the mirror equivalent of a Swede-Muscovite-Turk alliance against the Poles. The Poles are unable to help militarily due to the threat hanging over them with the Hansatic alliance as well as the still independent Ukraine (allied with Moldavia), and possibly Sweden and Turkey. So .. it seems after 2 centuries of expansion and victory on the field, Polish and French power is slowly starting to crumble...

Sapura
 
Pretty deressing turn of events for both you and France.

What happened to Frances ally Milan? Sounds like they could have used them againist both the Ottomans and the Spanish.

Good thing Sweden is not a major power. Nice alliance they have with the Ottomans, now all they need to do is align with the Dutch and English and they are set.

Thanks for the long running AAR it is nice to get the insight on the the whole game, not just a short segment.
 
Marc,

The Dutch have wolloped the French in the last 50+ years :(. First it was victories thta ended in status quo (victorious on the field though), and now they're taking territory. There'll be some pix of the timeline that I've sent to Johan up soon in the forum I think. You'll have a nice look .. :)


Drag,

What happened to Frances ally Milan? Sounds like they could have used them againist both the Ottomans and the Spanish.

Milan dishonoured an alliance in one of the countless wars between the timeframe of the above timeline. France and Poland got taken to the cleaners .. absolutely bushwacked. Milan wouldn't have been able to do much against the Dutch anyways.

Pole,

The A.I has improved like Pamela Anderson after a boob job .. er maybe not the best analogy but you get my drift...

Sapura
 
BTW, is there any particular reason why Spain and Holland annexed territory that was not adjacent to their own lands? Looking on one of your maps, the borders look strange. Wouldn't the Dutch prefer Champagne and Calais to Orleans and Nivernais? Or wouldn't Spain prefer something besides Berri and Bourgogne which are both landlocked and a minimum one territory away from friendly soil? Are these territories especially valuable so that this would be worthwhile?
 
Those are territories their armies trampled upon and demanded during peace treaties. I agree its not exactly 'accurate', though this happens very rarely in the game nowdays. Most of the time border provinces are taken during peace treaties...


Sapura
 
Hmm, those Ukrainians are pesky buggers, aren't they? :) In a way, I am glad they managed to gain their independence though. (If only they had managed as well in real history...)

Most of the time border provinces are taken during peace treaties...

I sure hope so! Those Spanish and Dutch provinces in the middle of France look about as sane as bananas and oranges in an apple tree.
 
I have to agree with you, Doomdark. But then again, Europe has had some strange borders throughout history. Spain and Austria had isolated territories all over. Hey, Sapura, I have a dumb question. Why did Austria and Spain end up with those isolated lands? I am guessing inheritence or perhaps an unlucky war.

In any case, it just seemed strange for a power to insist on isolated territories that do not have sea access when there were adjacent alternatives of equivalent value. Now, if a province is extremely valuable, I can see the logic in taking the risk of having to fight through to support it. But otherwise, it just seems dangerous.
 
Enemies however did at times insist on submission of certain cities / provinces ..after a war, even if they weren't exactly close to the borders. I guess you can get away with calling them 'occupied' areas, i.e. foreign troops taking a toll from that province .. whatever. Not the best of excuses, but eh ..


Doomdark,

Ukraine did get partial independence. Well, somewhat. The 1648-1667 Russo-Cossack Polish war was a war of independence of the Cossacks, who asked for protection from Moscow. Muscovites gladly agreed, taking advantage of the general chaos in Poland at the time (Swedes, Rakoczy, etc). In 1667 the Ukraine was split between the Poles and Muscovites, despite another defeat inflicted on the Muscovites by the Poles in the 1660's. The Turks were however menacing southern areas of Europe and Lubomiriski rebellion destroyed any advantage the Poles had. Sort of like in 1648. The Ukranians were a semi-independent entity WITHIN the Muscovite state from 1676, and 1686 onwards. So I guess you can call them 'vassals' of Muscovy in the game after 1683 .. this should be implemented soon because at the 'mo the Muscovite 1/2 of the Ukraine is strictly Russian territory -- not correct. In the 18th century though, the Cossacks along with the Tartars were reduced to complete slavery, much worse than the treatment they received from the Poles. My Russian friends won't agree to this because many believe (even now) that the Ukraine should never have parted ways from Moscow, even after the fall of Communism.

'Without the Ukraine, Russia ceases to be an empire..' said one adviser of a US President somewhile ago.. It's a bit of an overstatement, as is the many historians view that on the partition of the Ukraine in 1686 (eternal peace), the Muscovites gained the upper hand in eastern central Europe. It was a peace signed by one wayward Polish diplomat, who for the rest of his life was immensely hated .. still <shrugs>

I've raved on about it too much ..


Sapura


[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 31-07-2000).]
 
You are now officially the man. Posting pictures to the AAR section is a wonderful thing. Clarify something for me. Has Russia taken over the Crimea or do they just have the same colors?

The Ottomans are incredible. What a very scary turn of events. Heck even if you had the good fortune to beat them like you did aroun 1633, I can see them rebounding quickly as massive as they are. Have they destroyed the Malemukes yet?

Thanks again.
 
Heh, thank Johan for letting me post them up :)

The Crimea is not *exactly* the same color as the Muscovites. Muscovites are a lighter shade of brown .. no they haven't been taken over by the Muscovites as yet, probably due to 3 reasons..

a) Muscovite pre-occupation with expansion into Sibir

b) Wars against Sweden / Poland

c) Crimea is still part of the ever eternal Ottoman alliance... need I say more?

Have they destroyed the Malemukes yet?

Heh, they were annexed before 1550 :) 90% of N africa, all of the middle east up to the Crimea and into the Balkans (Austria etc..) is now under the Ottoman sphere.. The Turks have several vassals too.. The Ottoman alliance though has lost a few members, after that 1633 war. Hopefully the Turks / their remaining alliance members will be pre-occupied with the 'rebels' that have dared to dishonour the alliances .. good chance for Persia to strike back.

Sapura