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unmerged(28)

Game Designer
Jan 21, 2000
3.461
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Hmm...

Let us start ! I dedicate this topic to the AAR that I am going to produce for you pleasure. It will take some days before it is put up though. I want you to get a big chunk.
I have organized it so that each chapter is covers the reign of a Pope. It will be presented like an alternative history narrative. And I will spice it heavily we funny historical details.

So what I would prefer discussing in this topic is;

1) The Form of the AAR (Is it good ? Boring? improvements asked ? etc)

2) Tactics and General Game Info (I what you are doing on the other topics)

3) General History and Strategy ( It is interesting to discuss these areas as this is a historical game. It could prove good for the play-testing of the game.)

Some notions of my campaign intended:
First, I am an aggressive player. There will be lots of war, but also time for peace, trade and diplomatic adventures.

Now the Grey Eminence Behind the Pope. Is a staunch Machiavellian politician, working from the 'Clausewitzian' principle of War as an extension of politics. However, it is politics of power that is his main focus. If war is useful then he will use it if not than not. :)
Secondly, historically the Popes took a bit different road, that is in my campaign the Faith is secondary to Power. However Faith is a part of Power.

Goals:

1) Institute a Theocracy of Europe ( Res Publica Christianorum)
2) Recatholicize the Known World.
3) Winn by Victory points.

Finally, in the end of each chapter ther will be an aftermath. Telling you a bit how the historians (in the Game world) will treat the Pope's reign. If you like you can then look up the real sequel in you books see how much my story deviats from history.

See you !

/Greven
 
Nice outline.

My AAR's have been more action orientated, with added information about the game here and there. I've also added abit of historical information, as well as adding a bit of 'artistic flair', as will be noted in 7-10 AARs of Sweden.

A good balance between direct occurances in game, some background historical information (not too much, no need for the reader to be flooded with it), as well as adding amusing / interesting narrative should do the trick quite nicely.

Best way is to 'mix' the AAR up to a degree. This way the reader will continue to be interested, rather than just writing in straight occurances that happened on a particular day / year in the game written without 'flair' or emotion page after page.


Sapura
 
Originally posted by Sapura on 05-11-2000 06:54 PM
Nice outline.

My AAR's have been more action orientated, with added information about the game here and there. I've also added abit of historical information, as well as adding a bit of 'artistic flair', as will be noted in 7-10 AARs of Sweden.

A good balance between direct occurances in game, some background historical information (not too much, no need for the reader to be flooded with it), as well as adding amusing / interesting narrative should do the trick quite nicely.

Best way is to 'mix' the AAR up to a degree. This way the reader will continue to be interested, rather than just writing in straight occurances that happened on a particular day / year in the game written without 'flair' or emotion page after page.
Sapura
-------------------------------------------

Yes, I think we are of the same opinion here.
However, I'm 'damaged' by my profession, you're not ! :)
So I kindly accept comments when the AAR is presented. I don't want it to be boring... :)

/Greven
 
It's all good, I have yet to see an AAR that I didn't think was interesting. Historical references are good, if they are too the point we do not need a long drawn out opinion on the effects of the tithing and it's affects on Mediterranian fishermen. Some is definately good though. Love to hear about the diplomatic aspects of the game......think it will take some fine manipulation to expand the Papacy through out Italy. Wars are always good. Last what the non-player countries are doing in general.
 
We all write in different ways and there's plenty of room for different styles. I found that the comments by readers were quite useful and encouraged me to change my style to match their requests. eg. Dragon's request for news of other countries.

BTW: We have Greven in the Papacy and me in Turkey... anyone else want to run a simultaneous Campaign Game with another country so we can share perceptions? For example, from playing previous games I know that Spain and France have better things to do than to annoy Turkey, but right now I am concerned lest they DoW me while I am at war with Venice. Naturally the games will diverge as we all play out our seperate histories, but the broad strategic issues should stay the same.


/Graham
 
I am happy to tell you that the AAR: The Papal States - a Variant Grand Campaign;
has now been sent to Patrik.

It consists of thr first 5 chapters with 13 screenshots covering the period 1492-1550.

I hope you like it !

/Greven
 
Oh, Greven, holiest of holy men, defender of the true fate, is there any chance we will see parts 6 to ???? of this really well-written AAR ??
 
Originally posted by Marcus on 06-28-2000 09:57 PM
Oh, Greven, holiest of holy men, defender of the true fate, is there any chance we will see parts 6 to ???? of this really well-written AAR ??

Marcus,

His Holiness has decided to promote you to the rank od General-Cardinal immediately takeing command of the Army of the Cross with orders to destroy the army of the 'evil' Sultan Graham of all Turks pillaging Europe somewhere between Munich and Vienna (October fest). :)

Sorry Marcus,

1) My saved game became obsolete through one of the new patches. (Or at least I thought so and threw it away.) :)

2) Unfortenately, I am in the middle of some time-consuming work so I haven't the time to produce a AAR. (You know I would never produce anything I'd considered second rate :) )

P.S. Very soon you'll be able to buy the game in a store nearby your home. Be sure, the agents of the Papacy will be there, watching.... :)

/Greven



[This message has been edited by Greven (edited 29-06-2000).]
 
Some issues for writing or playing AAR's these are:

1. I would like to see that someone plays a non-european country. I know this has been the main focus of this game and there is nothing wrong with it. Simply to see if one can have some or major influence from the other continents on europe or establish a major power there. Also I would like to see the differences between the better developed countries, and also the different options or routes one has to take to lead this nationality to victory. I am just curious, I guess. e.g. the Aztecs, Incas or Chinese.

2. A closer look at and the development of one of the colonies and the actions taken towards its neighbouring provinces. The provinces next or near to it that change hands. The build up of your influence and other countries upon the area. Random events, disasters etc.

3. A better? use of the characters one has. That is if a monarch arises with peticulair special abilities (which are?) use them. Whatever strategy you were playing up till now change it to suit the monarch. So that drastic mid-term effects are coming into action. Let's say an agressive monarch replaced by a peaceful one. The reaction of the AI upon these drastic changes (which uses what kind of strategy? Are they random , chosen or is there just one for all countries?).

4. Maybe mentioning mid- to long term goals and strategies before you start. And after this what has become of it (evaluation perhaps of the complete game). What were the major difficulties, e.g. random events, an irritating general which is superior towards your own during the period ?-? etc.

5. Short term tactics to raise or lower specific values of trade(a) or devaluation of money(b).
Counter-attacks(c): A huge army is sitting one province away from the border and when the smaller army of the AI attacks then one overruns the two provinces or more (The Ai's intelligence is good? or just neigbouring provinces? etc). To sum up can one invite the AI into attacking a province?


Some of the AAR writers do write some of the points mentioned above. Many of them have different styles, which is good of course. Everyone has different strategies and tactics while playing a game and some find specific things more important than others.

I have almost read every AAR and I would like to say keep it up. The stories written are great. So I guess that if I would be playing a game I would mention or do the things which include the points above.

(All AAR's should be published in a book titled 'what if ... ruled like ...').

Geronimo.
 
Originally posted by Greven on 06-29-2000 02:40 AM
Very soon you'll be able to buy the game in a store nearby your home.

/Greven

[This message has been edited by Greven (edited 29-06-2000).]

O, Greven, Pope of Rome, Defender of the Faith and Representative of Our Lord on Earth...

My heart rejoices at the news that the game will probably be available soon. If this is true, soon we will be able to say: 'Behold! A case of EU in these premises!' and then the holy prophecy will be fulfilled and we will all be able to take the Game to our homes and rejoice even more. I agree with Endre; it would be just wonderful (or maybe divine?) if the game was available before the Day Our Lord Jesus was born, but if this is not the case, at least yours is a message of Hope in a world of Darkness dominated by non-strategy computer games.

Agnus Dei qui tollit peccata mundi...

Incidentally, there have been some cases of Cardinals/Bishops commanding armies. During the Peninsular War (1808-14), one of the first Portuguese armies in the revolt against Napoleon was organised by the Bishop of Oporto (or at least that is what Sir Charles Oman states). I believe that Richelieu also commanded the French army that besieged La Rochelle, but I think he was more of an organiser than a field commander. But I know for sure that Ferdinand of Austria, brother of King Philip IV of Spain, commanded Spanish armies in Flanders and Belgium during the Thirty Years War. If I am right, he was C-in-C of the Imperialist Army in Nordlingen (1634), the last great victory of the Spanish tercios in Europe (sob!)... and he also was a Cardinal of the Catholic Church! In fact, Spanish historians refer to him as THE Cardinal-Infante, 'infante' being a title given to all the brothers of the King of Spain.

Kind regards to all.

Martin
 
Originally posted by Martin Cullell-Young on 06-29-2000 02:43 PM
O, Greven, Pope of Rome, Defender of the Faith and Representative of Our Lord on Earth...

My heart rejoices at the news that the game will probably be available soon. If this is true, soon we will be able to say: 'Behold! A case of EU in these premises!' and then the holy prophecy will be fulfilled and we will all be able to take the Game to our homes and rejoice even more. I agree with Endre; it would be just wonderful (or maybe divine?) if the game was available before the Day Our Lord Jesus was born, but if this is not the case, at least yours is a message of Hope in a world of Darkness dominated by non-strategy computer games.

Agnus Dei qui tollit peccata mundi...

Incidentally, there have been some cases of Cardinals/Bishops commanding armies. During the Peninsular War (1808-14), one of the first Portuguese armies in the revolt against Napoleon was organised by the Bishop of Oporto (or at least that is what Sir Charles Oman states). I believe that Richelieu also commanded the French army that besieged La Rochelle, but I think he was more of an organiser than a field commander. But I know for sure that Ferdinand of Austria, brother of King Philip IV of Spain, commanded Spanish armies in Flanders and Belgium during the Thirty Years War. If I am right, he was C-in-C of the Imperialist Army in Nordlingen (1634), the last great victory of the Spanish tercios in Europe (sob!)... and he also was a Cardinal of the Catholic Church! In fact, Spanish historians refer to him as THE Cardinal-Infante, 'infante' being a title given to all the brothers of the King of Spain.

Kind regards to all.

Martin

Very true indeed, Martin. :)

Men of the church was involved in military ventures after the medievals, a fact that sometimes makes us wonder...

Sweden actually had a king Adolphus Fredrick who was 'Prince-Bishop' of Kiel before becoming Swedish king. Just adding one actor to the gallery. :)

On the DATE OF RELEASE, I think it will be realesed before the birth of christ but then again I am not a developer. :) When we say Q4 it should logically be interpreted as Sept to dec so my guess would be oct but then again I am only guessing.

/Greven
 
On the DATE OF RELEASE, my guess would be oct but then again I am only guessing.

The month of my birth! Truly this must be a sign from the Lord. Let's all join in prayer for a quick release.

On the 'make us wonder' thing:

Why? The church was actively involved in secular politics in the game period. Not to the scale of Gregory the great, perhaps, but Realpolitik also involves warfare, you know. Let's not judge the past by our own standards; I'll admit I'd become perplexed if Bishop O.Bondevik (Oslo) asked to be assigned as a commander of a Royal Army unit in Frisvold's new norvegian army system, but comtemporaries of Richelieu probably didn't lift an eyebrow at his appearance in the ranks during the siege of La Rochelle.

-Endre Fodstad
 
Originally posted by Endre Fodstad on 06-30-2000 03:01 AM
' On the 'make us wonder' thing:
Why? The church was actively involved in secular politics in the game period. Not to the scale of Gregory the great, perhaps, but Realpolitik also involves warfare, you know. Let's not judge the past by our own standards; '

Actually I'm not judging the past by modern standards, but instead pointing out a 'problem' in the ideology of religion of the PAST, namely the descripancy between the Church being a worldly organisation with Spiritual content. ;)

I do not believe that it is only a modern outlook to see the Problematic dialectics of Worldly/Spirirtual. Just pick up a book covering the great theologicians debates on the Spiritual Religious Orders, or the Crusades for that part. I am also very aware that the 'worldly approach' won at every single occation, but that doesn't prevent these events from being morally problematic, many individuals thought so during the period of the game.

'I'll admit I'd become perplexed if Bishop O.Bondevik (Oslo) asked to be assigned as a commander of a Royal Army unit in Frisvold's new norvegian army system, but comtemporaries of Richelieu probably didn't lift an eyebrow at his appearance in the ranks during the siege of La Rochelle.'

No perhaps not, but when we talk of Richelieu I am most sure that many catholic theologicians made the sign of the cross when they heard that a 'Man of God' was going to command an army, i.e. making martial services. Christianity has always been divided, on the topic of War and Peace. On wing defending an Absolute Pacifist position and the other wing defending war as a trade totally separateted from the spiritual world.

/Greven
 
Originally posted by Endre Fodstad on 06-30-2000 03:01 AM
On the DATE OF RELEASE, my guess would be oct but then again I am only guessing.

The month of my birth! Truly this must be a sign from the Lord. Let's all join in prayer for a quick release.

-Endre Fodstad

October is my month too! I was born on the 2nd. What about you, Endre? Yes, it must be a sign from the Lord indeed! However, you will probably be one of the luckiest ones, because I take it you live in Scandinavia. As for me, I will probably have to wait until the game reaches Barcelona. A couple of months more to wait, perhaps. Aagh! Well, patience is virtue (or so they say, :))

Martin
 
Marcus,

His Holiness has decided to promote you to the rank od General-Cardinal immediately takeing command of the Army of the Cross with orders to destroy the army of the 'evil' Sultan Graham of all Turks pillaging Europe somewhere between Munich and Vienna (October fest).


*bows down* Thanks you, your holiness, I will bring honor to the holy legions of Rome. But, my liege, I ask you, will it be possible to rid my Pentium of the infidel hordes once and for all with the use of EU? Will the Papacy be a major playable power ?.

I await your response. Until then, I will continue to carry out this hard task of converting the heathens and getting a decent tan in the New World, here in New Amsterdam where I am having a one month vacation, and where I am trying to go forth and multiply.

P.S. Please send more beads and mirrors, I think I can get the Cross a nice deal on some real estate here.
 
Originally posted by Marcus on 07-06-2000 09:12 PM

(snip)
Will the Papacy be a major playable power ?.
(snip)

I depends... :)

No it will not be a major playable power in any of the scenarios or in the GC.

However, by opening a gamefile and and and pushing 6 holy keys... you will be able to play the Papacy as a major power in any scenario (even you own homemade ons) and the GC. ;)

/Greven