• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(13)

Banned
Jan 12, 2000
2.125
0
Visit site
Grand Campaign AAR.

Country: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. (Courland is a vassal)

Difficulty / A.I aggressivness: Normal / Normal (I like play like this 90% of the time)

Start Year: 1492.

Armies: 5 Armies, 10k, 39k, 27k, 55k, 10k. At least 50% of all of those combined is cavalry.


October 1492 - 1495. The Commonwealth builds up an alliance with possible Turkish targets. Between those three years, Spain, Moldavia & Venice joins the Polish alliance.

Both Hungary and Austria refuse on countless occasions despite many gifts from the Polish diplomats and the Polish King. They are almost as hostile towards me as Turkey is themselves!

However, I have no time to 'dilly dally' or pander to them, I'll leave them to taste the sour fruits of their foolish decisions later - alone.

No matter, they'll be swallowed up by themselves. In 1493, Jan Olbracht rises to the Polish throne.

The Turks themselves are in an alliance with Sweden, Scotland and have the Wallachians as vassals.


October 1496 . Declared war on Turkey after a Crimean tatar raiding force crossed into Polish territory ravaging and pillaging land, almost all the way to Kiev.

The demand and a flat refusal of a suitable punishment by the Turks to the subserviant Tatars by an envoy from Poland causes wide spread anger especially within the King's personal circle and the Sejm.

The Sejm votes on a declaration of war on the Turks after a few dozen shots of vodka, raising their swords high and cursing the Turks with almost every colourful expletive found in the Polish language and then some.

Sweden / Scotland immediately declare war on me in support of Turkey. Moldavia / Spain and Venice keep to their signatures and declare war on Turkey.

I send envoys to Sweden immediately asking for a white peace. It is accepted. I knew they weren't in the mood for a fight.


Jan 1497. A huge Turkish army crosses into Moldavian territory and wipes out a Moldavian army sent out to defend against them, hoping in vain for a quick Polish response / re-inforcements. After mopping up the Moldavians the Turks settle down to a quiet siege on the Moldavian capital, Galatz. Or so they think .. A 45k Polish army attacks them whilst they least expect it (most comprised of infantry and perhaps 40 pieces of artillery / 7k cavalry), slaughtering the Turks and forcing the survivors to surrender or die.


Jan / Feb / March. Three Turkish armies are defeated during the course of these months. The Poles handle themselves well against the mostly cavalry orientated Turkish armies during this stage of the war. However, their losses are significant. There are many heavily injured and nearly 30% dead.

April 1497. A second Polish army of over 50,000 men (mostly infantry) attacks, assaults and captures Bujak just to the east of Moldavia. Venice in the mean time attacks the Turks further on in the west, however they are unable to deal with the effectively.
The Turks are not fooled and continue sending 90% of their forces against their most imporant invading enemy.. (me). This is a tactic that will work as after a while the Venetians will almost completley give up an offensive war against the Turks causing an uneasy stalemate along their respective borders.

Spain sends a huge fleet into the western Black sea annihilating roving Turkish fleets on several occasions, however they do not land an expeditionary force.


May, June 1497. The Poles lose 2 major battles against re-inforced Turkish forces in Silistra. This is due to the Turks superior numerical advantage in cavalry. I made a mistake of holding 90% of the Polish cavalry in central Poland (why cause it attrition when we're mostly assaulting cities?) and even now I refused to send them in to help.
The Turkish cavalry may have been the deciding factor in these 2 battles, however on both occasions their infantry was slaughtered. In one battle, losing ALL of their infantry formations before the Poles were forced to withdraw to mass, concentrated Turkish cavalry charges.

I also thank Venice for ceasing active operations against Turkey so that they could concentrate all on me front. Cheers! Bastards.

August 1497. Fought a defensive battle against a Turkish force who's cavalry advantage was almost 3x larger, however again, most of their infantry was cut to pieces by the Poles before they were forced to withdraw with heavy casualties. The Turks are slowly getting the upperhand in this war.


Nov - December 1497. Battles degenerate into small 3-10k skirmishes with quickly moving opposing enemy cavalry forces and caught Polish infantry units being assaulted by the Turkish / Tatar cavalry. The Turkish alliance cavalry usually getting the upper hand in the end after receiving serious losses.

Two smaller Polish infantry armies caught in the empty wastelands of Moldavia are slaughtered to a man.

The Turks assault Galatz yet again. A small Moldavian army lays siege to Silistra just to the east. In mid November a small 4k force of Polish infantry attacks 15k Turks at the walls of Galatz and forces them to flee. Galatz is relieved again.

The city has sustained major damage throughout the last year however.

Jan 1498. Two smaller Polish armies are cut to pieces and forced to flee against relieving Turkish armies hell bent on taking Galatz and reducing Moldavia into a puppet country just like neighbouring Wallacia further to the south.

Feb 1498. The Poles again, already overstreched, come to the aid of the battle scarred city and again manage to surprise the Turks forcing them to flee for the 3rd or 4th time in this war. Ismail is assaulted by the Turks to try and re-capture their territory (Bujak), held by a small Polish garrison.

March 1498. The Poles send in a relieving force against a 5x larger Turkish army assaulting Ismail. The Polish horse (Hussars weren't invented yet, nor the Polish style of conducing battle using their infantry only as fire support as yet) ) charges and cuts to pieces the Turkish infantry. By the end of the day not one Turkish infantry soldier is left standing on the field of battle.

The Poles, extremely exhausted after battling such an overwhelming force are forced to retreat in an orderly way back to Moldavia after the Turks charge with their horse. The Turks must be getting low on manpower now, they have had horrid infantry disasters in their battles, however they've always managed to win them in the end due to their cavalry superiority. (makes a note for later aar part :) ) The Poles lose 60% of their forces dead and wounded however. Still, due to this action, Ismail is not re-captured by the Turks. This, in the end doesn't make any difference.

April 1498. Both the Poles and Turks are exhausted after this exceptionally bloody war.

A status quo is signed with the Polish alliance. The Poles may been unable to win the war, but they've certainly showed the Turks that they will not tolerate border raids on their territories! It took a lot of lives to put the point across though :)


End of Part 1.

Sapura


PS. In actuality both the Poles and the Turks fought many times, historically, due to their vassals incursions and raids within their own territories.

The Polish cossacks used to raid deep into the Black Sea staging surprise (and successful) assaults on cities across the water. The Crimean Tatars used to raid Polish souther borders, especially into Podolia killing, maiming, raping and taking 'jassyr' or human slaves.
 
At last, another AAR by Commander Poland - Sapura himself!

It will be interesting to see what you can accomplish playing Poland. I hope you've consigned Russia and Turkey to minor power status so you can annex them. :)

Tough war against the Turks. You seem to have bad luck with your allies. Poland walked out on you when you played Sweden. Now this... If I were playing Poland, my primary allies would be Sweden and Persia, with Hungary, Venice, Spain and France as secondary partners. ;)

I think you should forget the Turks for a while and commence total assimilation of Russia. As long as Russia exists, Poland will never be safe.

/Doomie
 
Glad to see some playing Poland, should make for a good AAR.

Interesting opening moves, fighting a very stong Turkish opponent. Suprised Spain didn't land trops anywhere. Seems like in all the AAR's that even the smallest non-player country involved in a war will send troops on ships to harrass coastlines. Graham's Turkey (battle of Naples specifically).

How is the Polish manpower holding out?

How solid is the Polish ecomomy?

I noted that you country wasn't wracked with revolts while you fought the infidels, is that accurate or did you just not mention them.
 
Grand Campaign AAR. Sheep straying from the flock.

Country: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. (Courland / Prussia are vassals)

Difficulty / A.I aggressivness: Normal / Normal (I like play like this 90% of the time)

Year continued 1498.


After the war with Turkey I continued gathering allies to strengthen my position in the east. Courland and Kazan both joined my alliance in that year. Courland did what they were told to do and accepted under the conditions of treaty as vassals. Prussia, however, the arrogant Germans that they are refused to join me officially.

Throughout 1498-99 continued missions from Warsaw are snubbed and told that they are vassals in name only. They are not entitled to agree to any terms set by Poland. The Sejm continues to voice serious concerns over this defiance, being that this can cause a serious problem in the Baltic region. It may lead to the same arrogance from Courland leading to a possible alliance between those two 'states' in an alliance with Hansa, The Teutonic Order or both. A very nasty possible scenario.

King Olbracht, despite the outrage of the Sejm continues to push for a peaceful settlement to this dispute. With Russia, Turkey, Sweden and the HRE watching the development through their network of spies, it is crucial that this be resolved ASAP.

Sessions of the Sejm are continously interrupted by arguments, abusive words and at times degenerate into sword fights between the supporters of the Prussian stand and the hardcore Polish senators who demand an immediate submission of Prussian chestbeating or 'the whole power of the Commonwealth will rain down upon that small outcrop of Baltic land, bathing it in blood and darkness by the hands of the soldiers of the Virgin'

Many Senators continue to deny an agreement on a declaration of war if Prussia does not return to the flock. Massive rioting explodes in centers around Poland; Lublin, Thorn & Warsaw. The people are demanding that the Polish army rides to teach the Germans a lesson for such an insult.

Mar 1499 - further negotations lead nowhere. The Prussians get more and more arrogant. The Sejm finally approves the conscription of a strong Commonwealth force in Wilno, south of Prussia as a warning to Prussia, however there is no order to declare war.

In April, heated discussions continue. The country is on a wire, the majority wanting to hang the Prussians with a passion. Yet a small, but powerful minority still continues to hold out, despite repeated warnings and several small skirmishes between Senators and their private escorts. During a particulary long debate, a motion is put before the house to cancel vassalization of Prussia officially. This is agreed upon on May the 1st of 1499.

Prussia knowing well that the next course of action, slow in coming it may have been, is a declaration of war from Warsaw. They begin to conscript armies and send out envoys at speed north, south, east and west into all corners of Europe to gather support.

Jan Olbracht addresses personally a meeting of the Sejm on the 15th of May '..as vassals they are required, under the conditions of the treaty to lend military forces in support of the Commonwealth. They have not only refused to do that, however, they are now actively searching for support for their cause all over Europe. If we do not act now, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot..'

Two days later, the Commonwealth officially declares war on Prussia. Envoys are immediately dispatched to the Polish allies to gather support for this war. Battle plans are brought to a halt however, when bands of rioters, armed to the teeth explode in force in and around Lublin demanding that the declaration be declared null and void. The country falls into disorder (-3), official declaration is unable to be signed and from June to November of 1499 Polish armies are quelling revolts within their own territories.

During this time Prussia gathers friends and supporters through any means possible, unknown to Poland.

Polish envoys continue to arrive back in Warsaw after visits abroad to Polish allies, the results are unbelievable. Not one ally has decided to join the war actively with the Commonwealth. They have all disagreed in one form or another saying that they should not get involed in Polish domestic affairs and that the King of Poland should keep his house clean, with his own forces.

Courland, our other vassal refuses to send military support. The whole system is falling apart like a deck of cards. What insults!

The Sejm is startled to receive repeated envoys from lands, completely unconnected with the current crisis with letters in support of Prussia. England, Georgia, Crimea, The Hansa & The Teutonic Order all side with Prussia giving stern warnings to Poland to accept Prussian independence. It is too later, the war has begun.

A Polish force moves out of Wilno and north into Prussia. The Polish diplomatic service works feverishly to plead for a white peace with as many countries sympathetic to Prussia as possible.

A lot of money is spent with the result of an agreement of neutrality from England and Georgia. However Hansa flatly refuses Polish approaches.


December 7th, 25k Polish army defeats a small 6k Prussian army on the field and assaults, with deadly ferocity the Prussian capital of Konigsberg capturing it several days later. Prussia is subdued just like that, however they amazingly disagree to call of their 'dogs' in an exchange for independence.

A Polish 10k cavalry force defeats a Hanseatic army assaulting Thorn in Polish West Prussia and sends them packing north. Crimea is free to assault the South-Eastern stretches of the unguarded and unmanned Polish border causing slaughter, revolt and havoc on a massive scale.

A 3rd Polish army of 25k invades Livonia, possession of the Teutonic Order. The Prussians recall a small 6k army from an attack on Danzig to help and recapture occupied Konigsberg, however this attempt is futile and the Poles annihilate the Germans, the slaughter continuing for hours.


The 20k Polish army under General Czestochowa, who led the assault that captured Konigsberg marches north crossing the border into Memel controlled by the Teutonic Order.

The 3rd Polish army that invaded Livonia joins battle with a 26k German force (11k cav, 15k inf, 18 art in January of 1500. The Poles successfully charge the German center and force them to flee. Polish losses are few, the Germans flee north into Estonia.

The Sejm votes to raise to raise taxes and increase the size of the army. Huge sums of money are exchanged.

In March 1500, 2 6,000 man Cossack/Polish armies are raised north of 'the storm', occurring in the Ukraine and the surrounding areas caused by Crimean support rebels and their actual armies which are assaulting Ochakov in Bessarabia.

April. The rebels attack and take Krentjug. Our reinforcements attack a rebel army near Kiev and a massive 45k Crimean army near Ochakov. The Commonwealth forces are annihilated. The entire region is in flames and many outlaying areas are in foreign control though Kiev and Ochakov are still not captured. There is still hope until this occurs.

The Sejm receives urgent messages from the small bands of Polish cavalry units fighting a partisan action in the Ukraine that the situation is getting desperate. The Sejm, however is unable to spare anymore men or funds for the time being as the Poles are completely tied up in wars going on in the north.

Prussia, feeling the pinch offers us a white peace, however the Sejm reacts even more angrily at this pathetic request and some members need to be held back from tearing the still arrogant Prussian envoys into little bite sized chunks of dog food.


April 1500. The Polish forces continue to have success in the north. A contrast from what is happening in the far S/E. Memel is captured from the Teutonic Order. In the following month, the Poles force a peace on the stunned Germans. The Teutonic Order is required to pay an indemnity of 250c. The Sejm votes to use these funds immediately to conscript more forces.

As of April 1500, Prussia (they are subdued and occupied though), Hansa and Crimea are left fighting the Commonwealth. A 50k Crimean army continues to lay bloody siege to Ochakov. They have been besiegeing the city since almost the start of the war and have been unsuccessful in capturing up till now. So far this is the reason why the Crimeans have not captured more Polish territory in the S/E.

In July, 1500, Crimean backed rebels storm and finally capture Kiev slaughtering anything left moving within its walls. It is an orgy of bloodlust. The streets are bathed in blood, the Polish and Cossack flags are torn down .. The city officials are brought out and publically castrated and then quartered before the remaining inhabitants of the city who are then herded to become slaves.

In September, 1500, The massive Crimean force assaults and finally captures Ochakov after re-inforcements arrive. The Crimeans lost over 20,000 men dead and wounded during this long siege and they let that be known to the city inhabitants. The city is burnt, many buildings, churches and artifacts are destroyed or stolen.

In stark contrast, in the North on the Baltic coast Polish forces finally capture Stettin (Hanseatic city) and occupy east Pommeria. This forces the Hansa to sign a peace treaty with the Commonweath paying an indemnity of 250c. However they are only able to spend 50c, which is all that is left in their treasury.

Prussia & the Crimea remain. The Polish generals are now able to pool all their remaining forces south into the pit of hell that once was the Ukraine. The Sejm hears of shocking tales of slaughter, chaos, rape, pillage and barbaric cruelty from shell shocked and wide eyed survivors from the south.

In October the 40k army which captured Ochakov moves north into Ukraine and Kiev already under the control of the Crimean backed rebels. The countryside resembling charcol rather than the once beautiful, rich growing fields 'full of hay and honey than in all of the rest of Europe'.

The Crimean General demands that the rebels open the doors to Kiev so that their army may come in and take control. However the rebels are reluctant asking that they be allowed to keep the city as payment for their support in this war. The General enraged by this replies, still semi-legably that they have already been more than compensated for their trouble.

The rebels DEMAND that Kiev be theirs. The refuse to yield it and are prepared to fight to keep it. (Well, whats left of it..) On this, the General immediately orders his army to begin a furious assault on the city knowing from his Tatar scouts that Polish forces are moving, in force, onto their position. He does not intend to battle against the full force of the Commonwealth knowing the result that will await him and his army.

An assault is issued. During 4 days, the rebels hold out strongly, the Crimeans unable to effectively storm the massive walls of Kiev with their outdated and useless sieging equipment. The rebels take possession of captured guns / artillery pieces and other defences left by the Polish/Ukrainian defenders after the previous siege and this gives them a definite edge even though they are outnumbered 2:1. After several more day of furious assaults the Crimeans are forced to flee, due both to a) their exceedingly high losses in this siege (nearly 10k men) as well as alarming messages coming from the envoys fleeing from the N/E seeing massive Polish formations on the horizon.

The Crimeans knowing that the situation is totally hopeless send envoys to the steamrolling Polish armies hell bent on revenge for what happend in Kiev and Ochakov. Despite protests from elements of the Polish army (many of their families living (once living) in those two cities) demanding they show the same cruelty to the Crimeans and their citizens, Hetman Potocki agrees to a peace in exchange for massive compensation. (Polish military leaders were always given special powers to be able to deal diplomatically with opposing countries when incommunicado far off on the borders of the Commonwealth, even being able to sign separate treaties. This was at times beneficial, at times not so beneficial to the Commonwealth)

On November 8th, 1500 the Poles remove the Prussian officials by force from their capital of Konigsberg and Prussia is, forcefully and without pomp or hype annexed by the Commonwealth.


Time to deal with the other vasal traitor, Courland as well as the recapture of rebel held cities in the Ukraine (Kiev) and others.


End of Part 2.
(amazingly this only took me 50 minutes to write :))

Yikes!


Sapura
 
Dragon,

How is the Polish manpower holding out?

Very well. They have the highest manpower of all eastern European nations at the start and amongst the highest land forces throughout the 16-17th centuries in all of Europe.

How solid is the Polish ecomomy?

Struggling :) It was mostly aimed to spend cash on conscripting troops for the war effort.


.. and no, my country was not wracked by revolts. This is due to the fact that Poland has a 'casus belli' or cause for legal war on Turkey (and always will). This means that when a war is declared it does not cause a loss in stability. Poland has permanent Casus Belli on Sweden and Russia also amongst other nations.

Sapura
 
Go Poland!

That was a bit of a bind you managed to deflect. Those Crimeans proved tougher than I could have imagined. :)

The AI seemed to behave quite well, but once again you had to suffer from faithless allies.

/Doomie
 
Unreliable allies is a recurring theme. I would say that the computer has a similar problem. Think that goes right along with the ability of the players nation when faced with a new war to sign white peace agreements with some of the nations declaring war before shots are fired. I think both the occurance of unsupportive allies and the white peace signing allies and opponents are a good thing.

Glad to see Poland securing some Baltic real estate. That should have some long term benefits.

What is the benefit of having nations that are vassals?

I would have thought if you had a nation as a vassal you would have automatically given support for war, unlike allies = ). Nice read by the way.
 
Allies are usually quite reliable. It just depends on the relationship you have with them. The more positive it is the more they will be willing to help you out. However it was quite shocking for a blanket refusal of all my allies in AAR2.

Glad to see Poland securing some Baltic real estate. That should have some long term benefits.

Well, technically, they own Courland and Prussia, so they already have Baltic real estate. Plus, they have Danzig.

What is the benefit of having nations that are vassals?

Well, I can think of one major benefit. You can move your forces through their territories, though that also occurs with your military allies. I'll have to get back to you on that because I'm interested to know myself.

Johan, perhaps you can enlighten us?

I would have thought if you had a nation as a vassal you would have automatically given support for war, unlike allies = ). Nice read by the way.

Historically, its not always been the case. But I agree, with your in part.


Sapura
 
Grand Campaign AAR. Anarchy in the realm; Courland & Moldavia.

Country: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. (Courland is a vassal)

Difficulty / A.I aggressivness: Normal / Normal (I like play like this 90% of the time)

Year continued: Late 1500.


As of late 1500 the Commonwealth still has foreign enemies on its soil. The Ukraine, Poltava as well as other surrounding provinces are under the control of rampaging bands of rebels formerly supported by the Crimea.

From December 1500 to January 1501 a Polish army of 12,000 men engages rebel strongholds in Ukraine and Poltava. Polish armies suffer serious losses throughout these months, the rebels being extremely well armed and brilliantly led, however they are no match for a professional army in the end.

As of January 1st, 1501 a new monarch rises to the throne of the Commonwealth: Alexander Jagiello. During this period there is continued tension with the Polish vassal, Courland. They continue to be extremely hostile towards Polish patrols in their territory and there have been instances of Polish citizens being attacked and killed, peasants, townlfolk but especially merchants.

The Sejm demands that the new King give a stern letter of warning to the vassal, and if that does not work the Polish army should be sent in to bring the 'Prussian loving upstarts' back into the fold.

The King does see the situation much differently from the senators and begs the Sejm that the best course of action would be a peaceful, tactful diplomatic solution to the tension between the master and the vassal. The King insists that Poland has been through a rough war, the country is still in a state of flux and it would be best to hold off using military means in this conflict as it would only, in the end benefit Muscovy and the Turks.

Polish envoys are sent to Riga throughout the first half of 1501 without their usual pom, ceremony so as not to annoy the tetchy vassal state anymore than it already is.

Remarkably the tension filled situation between Poland and Courland does lighten up over the course of several months. The envoys working with the Polish King tread as delicately as possible, during the negotiations with the vassal. The result being a slight increase in tensions from -130, to -121 in relations.


Feb 1501. The Polish armies recapture Kiev after a brief 2 day long assault on the emptied and horribly disfigured city. What awaits them creates rage, shock and disbelief at the sight before them. Not one living original inhabitant is left in the city. Bodies are piled high in mass graves or laying alone in the burnt out streets of the city.

The Poles now move east into Yekateinoslav which is still controlled by the rebel gangs.

Cleaning of the S.E provinces of the rebels takes the Polish armies through April, May, June and July of 1501. The Poles suffer heavily losses in their battles with the well armed rebels who seem to be basically Crimean soldiers in disguise.


Meanwhile the Sejm, hearing of the reports from Kiev and confirmation of mass slaughter of the population of the towns in the east decrees a state of unofficial war between the Commonwealth and the Crimea. They do not pass an official sanction to the war because the Crimeans are still allies with the grand-anti Polish coalition; England, The Hansa, Teutonic Order, Georgia. It would be very unwise to start a confrontation so early after the last war. The Commonwealth is in serious disarray at the moment, and without allies.

At around this time the Venetians join the anti-Polish alliance (around July of 1501). Venice was a previous ally of Poland, they dishonoured their alliance with the Commonwealth along with the other nations. The Commonwealth is starting to get surrounded by potential enemies all with a clear united goal; the diminishing of Polish power in central Europe.


Instead, the Sejm decides to pick off the 'smaller birds' who chose to use their official document of military support with the Commonwealth as toilet paper. The target of the Sejm is Moldavia. The country, on the southern border of Poland, just south of Podolia is an easy target for a massed attack by Polish cavalry followed by a quick siege of its capital.

The Commonwealth declares war on Jan 1st, 1503. Loss in stability is minimal since the Poles have a 'Casus Belli' on Moldovia lasting for about 10 years to to their dishonouring of the military alliance.

25,000 infantry, 15,000 cavalry and 40 pieces of artillery move off from Kamieniec Podolski in Podolia south into Moldavian territory in late Feb 1503. Meeting no resistance on the field apart from scattered attacks by small Moldavian cavalry units, the Poles reach the capital of Galatz in March.

Several years ago the Poles fought against the Turks several times under the walls of Galatz saving the city on no fewer than 3 occasions from the Ottoman armies...and this is how the Moldavians repaid them in the last war. Now they are themselves laying siege to the walls of the capital.

In April of 1503 the Poles capture the city after the remaining 3 / 10k Moldavian soldiers surrender the city unable to hold out any longer seeing their city destroyed by the Polish artillery. Polish losses are minimal.

Moldavia becomes part of the Commonwealth on the 21st of April 1503. Many Moldavian soldiers cannot bare this and either foolishly attack Polish soldiers in the streets (inevitably wanting to die) or ride off south to face death at the hands of the Turks who's border mirrors theirs only 70 or so km's away.


In the North, the situation again gets more desperate. Courland is found secretly conspring with the Teutonic Order as well as the Hanseatic League after secret lettrs of exchange are uncovered and decoded mostly due to the work of a ring of Polish spies in Riga. The letters detail the possibility of a secret alliance against the Commonwealth and the possibility of a future joint attack at an appropriate time when the Commonwealth is busy with Muscovy or the Turks.

On receiving news of this the King and the Sejm jointly agree to march a Polish army of 40,000 men into Courland 'purely to safeguard the interests of Riga' in September of 1503.

A large Polish army / along with light Polish cavalry formations swarm into Courland, however there is yet no official declaration of war so Riga is unable to respond militarily to this tactic but however sends envoys to Warsaw asking and demanding that the majority of Polish forces be removed from their territory because they are 'not under the threat of foreign invasion at this time'.

The Sejm now debates as to what course of action should follow strong show of Polish strength directed towards its vassal. Will it be war or peace?


End Part 3.

Sapura.
 
Originally posted by Sapura on 05-30-2000 04:18 AM

What is the benefit of having nations that are vassals?

Well, I can think of one major benefit. You can move your forces through their territories, though that also occurs with your military allies. I'll have to get back to you on that because I'm interested to know myself.
--------------

Actually you also got a large chunk of of the vassals yearly income. The vassal has a hard time befriending your potential enemies.
And it is easier to retain the friendship with a vassal then with the guy next doors.
---------------

I would have thought if you had a nation as a vassal you would have automatically given support for war, unlike allies = ). Nice read by the way.
----------------

Normally, when vassalizing a country that vassal can make his own foreign policy decision, if and only if, you didn't make him your ally before vassalize him. However, for example, if The White Eagle would have allied with Bohemia and then Vassalized the latter, Bohemia's independece would have been farsical.

Prussia and Courland is a special case... I think the developers looked into the former history of Poland-Lithuania and the Teutonics.

/Greven
 
***The Sejm votes on a declaration of war on the Turks after a few dozen shots of vodka, raising their swords high and cursing the Turks with almost every colourful expletive found in the Polish language and then some.***

I think that historically the Polish constitution demanded that Parliament actually needed a 100% unanimous vote to pass legislation or declare war. This was a major factor in their inability to react effectively to a crisis.


***The Turks are slowly getting the upperhand in this war.***
Forgive me for cheering the Turks :)

I echo someone else’s (forget who) earlier sentiment that Russia is your long term enemy, however it may take a while before your other borders are strong enough to face them.

/Graham
 
Take Hugary and then Austria !

It will increase your taxbase immensely and they are nearly 100% catholic. No uprisings. From there you have a great opportunity to attack the Turks !! And the Hungarian Crown is yours by right !! :)

/Greven
 
Graham,

I think that historically the Polish constitution demanded that Parliament actually needed a 100% unanimous voteo pass legislation or declare war. This was a major factor in their inability to react effectively to a crisis.

Yes, however, Magnates themselves could carry on a war with another country regardless of a decision from the Sejm. They did this almost non stop. For example, the Polish invasion of Muscovy in 1610 was NOT authorized by the Sejm officially in the beginning.


Russia is absolutely nothing at the moment. I can probably take them out within a few years of a war given a proper conscription process. However, then I could only take 3 provinces unless I make her a minor.

Greven,

Take Hugary and then Austria !

That would be a hard war :) I'd need quite a bit of preparation for such a conflict. Besides which It's better to leave Hungary / Austria as a barrier between me and Turkey.

Sapura
 
I have wanted to do this before but I now feel I know more about the game and will give my analysis of the situation - followed with a recomendation (because I'm bored waiting for the game)

Well - the way I (probably misguidedly) see it is that you have five options - four of them are war and one is peace...

The first war option is to take control of Russia - an easy proposition but would it be a burden to protect such expanded borders when - as you put it, 'Russia is nothing'...I don't know much about the game (but I have read all the aar's, so I could myself a bit qualified to put foward an opinion) As far as I know you need colonists to quickly populate regions, and the Poles aren't big on port facilities ;) - It would also require peaceful borders with Hungary, Austria, and Turkey...(not the easiest thing to secure)

Your second option is answering 'The German question' to do this you must tread carefully (As I saw when Pope Greven was uniting Italy 500 years early :) ) And Germany is in centeral Europe, and destabalising that area could bring the wrath of Austria or Hungary, because a Pohish-dominated Germany would place them in a very poor strategic position, it would unite Europe against you - allying to put you back in your place...But on the plus side, Germany is strong in manpower - and even a small piece of it would give you far greater power against your traditional enemies, but with this comes responsibility...you must take interest in the affairs of France and Sweeden, playing a too active role would weaken you so far that an Austro-Hungarian alliance could bring the whole pack of cards down. Your solution to this is obviously alliance with one of these two powers, and the complete destrustion of the other - splitting the proceedes between you, and then using that Alliance to bring victory in Germany - bring them down by starting a war with Turkey, exhaust them in that war and then bring their Impoverished reigeme down a few pegs by slowly turning your diplomatic machine towards their destruction, bring powerful alliances together with your newfound power.....and fight. Sounds too simple and may not work but even partail success anywhere would bring influence in Germany - and that is your eventail goal. In the end you must weaken Austria and Hungary - who appear to be your main problems.

The third option is domination of Eastern Europe - meaning Austria and Hungary, the obvious downside is the medeterainian, bringing these two nations under your heel will bring you nothing but trouble, everybody wants a piece of the Med - Venice, Turkey, France, Spain, even pope Grevens mighty theocracy :) ...You don't need the trouble - you could find yourself fighting Turkey, Spain, and Sweeden - This is not the way to go, it overstreatches you (but if you go for option two you have power in Germany, and you do not actually need your Influence to streatch to the gates of Italy) so you must leave one moderatly powerful (friendly) nation on the med to keep your interests (indirectly) served. This strategy ignores your powerful enemies in Germany and on the baltic, but you should be able to keep them at bay with one friend in the area (or more reliable - a large army :) )

Finally you can opt to mix strategies, expanding your power much more than you expand your responsibilities...minor wars...Invade Russia and take a province or two (leaving her two...) Attack northwest - capturing one or two baltic or german provinces (I havn't mentioned the baltic as a seperate option because IMHO it is a bloody move with too few rewards...) Carry on like this, oppertunistic wars - slowly expanding with no real goal other than mild aggrandizment...the drawback of this policy is that it is not a policy...with no clear aim it is possible to get drawn in too deep into affairs beyond your control without a backout strategy. It works but it will not bring the great rewards that a planned strategy will bring...

My personal conclusion is the German option - simply because it enhances you greatly while - if done properly, gives you a grateful ally on the Danube - protecting you from Turkey.

[This message has been edited by Whitey (edited 31-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Whitey (edited 31-05-2000).]
 
Whitey

'Russia is nothing'.

^ I'll be eating those words when you read the next aar! :( Well, not quite..


Austria and Hungary

In disagree that they're my main 'problems' or concerns. Imagine a strong 3 way defensive alliance with Poland / Austria / Hungary towards the end of the 15th century against the Turkish invaders. OK there were some forms of alliances, mostly dynastic. However there was nothing of any real significance at that time. If I could somehow create such an alliance it would bring serious challenge to the Turks.


Invade Russia and take a province or two (leaving her two..


If I invade Russia I'll take more than one or 2 :) ..


Sapura
 
Grand Campaign AAR.

Country: Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. (Courland is a vassal)

Difficulty / A.I aggressivness: Normal / Normal (I like play like this 90% of the time)

Continued Start Year: 1504


As of 1503 Poland is without any strong ally in the region. Around her two powerful alliances are taking shape; France, Sweden, Turkey, Scotland & the anti-Polish alliance of The Hansa, Teutonic Order, Venice, Georgia, England and The Crimea.

The Courland vassal situation has been diffused mostly due to religious rioting in the Commonwealth.

The A.I has created a rather difficult problem for me. I am deprived of some of the most powerful and influential allies to have. The states of the HRE hold little interest for me.

Another reason the A.I has done well is that creating the 2nd (anti-Pole) alliance means I am (due to religious disputes) to take offensive action against any of the member countries.

Most of these countries border my country and are extremely vulnerable. Fortresses are at a minimum and their maximum manpower is much smaller than that of the Commonwealths'.

However, even with such an alliance, given enough time to prepare, a decent cash influx I could probably do well in an offensive war with the alliance, crush it once and for all.

There are two major problems causing me to be unable to wage offensive war at this moment:

a) religious strife / anarchy within the Commonwealth. The Catholics and Orthodox lunatics are at each others throats in western Poland as well as Lithuania.

They are tearing the country to pieces and the Polish army is called on several times to quash several massive revolts.

b) I have my stability slider to the max hoping to increase my overall stability rating to past -1 (which is not extremely bad) to a more managable 0 or +1. 90% of the revenue therefore is being herded into this 'account' rather than on maintaing and creation of new armies / defences.


Finanical Situation - Commonwealth of Poland / Lithuania (1504)

Tax Incomes 21(x1.00) 21.1 (21 provinces / centers of tax income in the Commonwealth?)
Goods Production 20( 29%) 6.3 (e.g. weapon manufactories..)

Trading Incomes 3( 25%) 0.8 (very low, my merchants are only active in Danzig (our COT) as well as to a small degree in COT's of Courland and Novgord)

Gold Mines 0.0

(No presently found gold mines)

Inflation at 6%,

Stability at -1. Manpower at 63.000. In other words, potential to create massive armies.

(This current financial situation is not too bad. However with Poland being involved in non stop wars, there have been fewer merchants travelling overseas and less empthasis on promoting officials such as bailiffs that increase the income.


1506 - Plague! 1/2 the population of Bessarabia, Podola and Galicia is wiped out during the year. This is a serious crisis. As you may recall two of those first provinces were heavily war damaged in the war against the anti-Polish alliance. They were already serious depopulated and now they have again suffered greatly.

Zygmund the 1st rises to the Polish throne. Sweden repays our loan to her.

1504-1510 Internal Anarchy and religious turmoil. The Catholics and Orthodox sections of the Commonwealth are at each others throats due to the changes made by Alexander and Zygmund. (In theory my screwing around of the religious sliders to bad effect :) )

This causes much destruction throughout the Commonwealth. The army is bled dry and there is a loss in population. However after several bloody defeats of the rebels the situation (temporarily) is brought under controls.

Towards the end of 1508 Polish and Cossack cavalry reconnaissance patrols detect massive formations of Russian forces (mixed cavalry and infantry) on the borders with the Commonwealth at Tver / Moscow, Wielka and Tula (last 2 are Polish provinces). It seems that the Russians are getting ready for a war against us due to our recent internal weakness.

The Sejm immediately votes on a pre-emptive war with Russia. Letters of demand are sent to the Russian Tzar however they meet with no response. (Dear God, lets hope that Russia does _NOT_ ally itself with the anti-Polish alliance in the future..)

War is declared on Russia in June of 1509. Two Polish armies converge on the Polish frontiers. A 40,000 army & 54 pieces of artillery in Wielka and a smaller 17k army at Tula.


July - The Poles 16,000k army moves into Moscow and immediately joins battle with an equally sized Russian force stationed there. Battle is closed but the Russians are re-inforced with several large cavalry formations and the Poles must withdraw losing close to 8,000 men dead and wounded.

A bad start to this war. The Russians lay siege to Tula however they are repelled (for now) by a Polish cavalry attack during one night.

The Poles, at the same time, to the west move into Tver, defeat a small field army stationed there and assault the city. In mid July they capture it. The 1st Polish army counting over 30k troops is ordered to split into two. One force, 15k / 43 artillery pieces is ordered to move east through enemy territory and assault Moscow. The other to move back south into Polish territory back into Tula on reports of movement of a massive 40,000 man Muscovite army about to invade the territory. There is only a 6k Polish force stationed there and they need to be re-inforced.


August - Too late. The Russians arrive in Tula first. The Poles do not defeat despite overwhelming odds and are cut to pieces, the survivors fleeing south. The Muscovites lose close to 8,000 men dead and wounded and are severly exhausted. They are unable to actively assault Tula.

In mid August the relieving army from Tver finally arrives and gives battle to the Russians. 15k Poles defeat a Muscovite force of over 30,000 men.

During the same time a Polish army gives battle to 12,000 Muscovites just outside of their capital of Moscow. The Poles are victorious despite serious infantry losses. Muscovites lose over 10,000 men in this bloody battle. The result: Moscow is besieged by the Poles.

A month later Commonwealth forces storm and capture Moscow on September 23rd 1509, whilst a 26k Muscovite army arriving from the north tries to re-captured the occupied city of Tver.

A major battle occurs on October 5th. 20,000 Poles (36 pieces of artillery) hoping to relieve their garrison in Tver charge the 27,000 (5k cavalry) Muscovites currently laying siege to the city. During the day long battle the Poles take many casualties, however the Russians are being now being squeezed against the walls of the city being increasinly unable to deal with the Polish infantry assaults. A major Polish infantry assault towards the onset of dusk fails, the Muscovites being victorious, the Poles losing over 50% of the infantry in this assault on the Russian positions.

Despite attacks from both sides, from the walls of Tver and from the Polish field forces the Russians are able to hold on. The Polish field army must retreat (in good order) due to severe losses and low morale.

Massive rioting occurs in several western Polish provinces after hearing of the shocking defeat against the 'eastern Barbarians' The people demand that the war be brought to and end since the Hetmans are unable to defeat such 'rabble'.

The Polish King and the Tzar agree on a cease-fire (and the start of peace talks. Over several days the Poles continue pressing the Muscotive diplomats in Tver demanding the secession of Tver to the Polish crown.

Despite some severe Polish losses in this war, the diplomats and the Tzar agree to the peace treaty. The Commonwealth gains the province of Tver into her realms.


End AAR Part 4.

Sapura
 
>>>Despite some severe Polish losses in this war, the diplomats and the Tzar agree to the peace treaty. The Commonwealth gains the province of Tver into her realms. <<<

Good stuff! Now that Tver is yours you should be able to persuade the Russian to turn east. Perhaps an alliance with Kazan or the Golden Horde? Is Pskov taken yet?

Dragon: Once you take provinces from another nation in Peace talks it becomes very expensive in stability (additional -5 ) to attack them immediately. You need to wait 5 years (maybe 10, not sure) before you can declare war on them without additional penalty. In the meantime thay have a Causus Belli on you and hate you (-200). So make sure that you cripple them at the Peace Talks!

/Graham
 
Thanks Graham, was kind of curious about that......does the relations between a player nation and a defeated foe gravitate automatically back toward zero after time? Or is the only way to improve relations to give gifts and marraiges?