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Lepanto (scenario) 2nd Alliance War against Turkey / Creation of the Hungro-Venetian Commonwealth.


Country: Venice

Difficulty / A.I aggressivness: Normal / Normal (I like play like this 90% of the time)

Continued Start Year: 1528

OK guys, you wanted hardcore stats and financial summaries, well here they are..
They follow the AAR and are statistics after a 2nd war against Turkey.


Part 1) Diplomatic moves / growth of the anti-Turkish alliance.

a) January-Feb 1528 - A Royal Marriage with Poland. Poland joins our anti-Ottoman alliance
of Hungary / Venice / Persia / Iraq. As you may recall they were for a time allied with
the Turks but did dishonoured the alliance when it came down to war.

b) October 1528, Feb 1529 - Moldovia & Wallacia join our anti-Ottoman alliance. It seems we managed to seduce into our fold after our splendid success in the last war with Turkey when the two states were neutral in the conflict.


The anti-Turkish coalition has reached a monstrous size. It's members are: Venice, Hungary, Moldavia, Wallacia, Poland, Iraq and Persia. To counter this Turkey invites Prussia into the fold already with Sweden, The Crimea, Algiers and England.


c) After extensive negotiations, the bringing together of both states and the unusually good relations between Venice and Hungary, the former offers Hungary vassalization to which Hungary accepts on January 1st, 1531. Btw, for this to occur a country has to be in your alliance for at least ten years, be of the same true faith and have a relationship of at least 190+ / 200. As vassal of Venice, it now contributes 50% of its annual cash to its mother country and Venetian armies are allowed to move within the vassal territory freely.


* Oct, 1531: Trade technology advance. Venice can now refuse trade to other countries in its COT. I immediately act on this banning trade to the Papal States and 2 minor German principalities. Refusing them trade means that they are unable to increase their share of trade in my particular center giving me a higher chance of a monopoly, or at least higher profits.


Part 2) Declaration of war / The War against Turkey.


a) Venice declares war on Turkey on September 14th, 1534. Prussia, Algiers, England, Sweden, the Crimea immediately declare war on me in support of Turkey. I ask for support from my allies; Poland, Hungary, Wallacia, Moldovia, Iraq and Persia. All agree to go to war due to my strong diplomatic represenation and exceedingly positive relationships with those countries.

Clashes now occur in central / northern Europe, the Balkans and the Middle East. (Venice immediately offers peace to Sweden to which she accepts as status quo).


b) Polish armies assault Konigsberg in east Prussia and capture it with ease in December of 1534.

c) Iraqi forces invade Syria and storm Damaskus in a night attack taking the Ottoman garrison completely by surprise.


d) In January of 1535, Albania is captured by the main Venetian army. Bosnia captured by the end of January by auxillary forces. The Turks are in full retreat taken aback by such a tsunami assaulting both of its border areas. Acre is being sieged by the Persians.


e) Turkish armies regroup in the Balkans and in a combined assault with Prussian support (who managed to cross through Krakow pillaging the countryside) invade Wallacia and Moldavia annihilating both their respective armies on almost the same day. Bucharest is captured by their forces. A few weeks later the Moldavians are also under occupation by the Turks. What is left of Wallacia/Moldavian armies retreats north into Hungarian territory.


f) Nish, in Kosovo is stormed by a mass 50,000 man Hungro-Venetian army and captured in April of 1535. The Balkan situation is unresolved, the anti-turkish co-alition having moderate success in the western territories, however reeling back under huge Turkish assault in and around Moldavia/Wallacia.


g) Wallacia/Moldavian (20k) regroups and moves back into Moldavia and begins assaulting its occupied capital. Meanwhile a massive Polish army advances down from Krakow into Banal (just shy of the Balkans)


h) Mosul is captured from the Turks by Iraqi armies. Sivas is under siege by the Persians. The Turks are in serious trouble in the Middle-East. Re-inforcements are still making their way from Constantinople. Meanwhile a 22,000 Turk army lands in Cyprus and begins assaulting the recently strengthened Venetian fortifications there. (nearly 10,000 man garrison) They will bleed hard to capture that territory again.


i) In June combined Polish / Venetian forces lay siege to Thessaloniki in Macedonia. There is a big Polish naval presence in the Mediterranean combining with Venetian fleets causing the Turks serious losses. However the English fleet is yet to arrive. The situation may change drastically.

j) Crimean forces are having serious trouble advancing into Polish territory in Bessarabia and their losses are mounting against incessant attacks by Polish cavalry regiments. Venice takes this opportunity to push for a status quo with Crimea and this is accepted hungrily on June the 1st, 1535. Meanwhile the English fleet arrives in the Mediterranean and lands a small army which assaults Venetian Corfu.

On July 9th a so far undefeated Venetian fleet is annihilated in the Cyclades by an overwhelming Englo-Turk fleet. Polish naval forces are also beginning to break under the numerical superiority of the enemy fleet(s).

additional: On October 9th Cyprus is finally captured by Algerian and Turkish forces. The Algerians take control of the island. At the same time Venetian soldiers storm Athens (Hellas) and capture it with few losses.


k) A Prussian army (50k) defeats a large 90,000 Polish army outside of Thorn in Western Prussia and this leads to the capture of Thorn several days later. Polish forces are regrouping.

additional: Combined army of Moldavia / Wallacia with Polish support re-captures the capital of Moldovia (Galatz) in October, 1535.

Acre is captured by the Persians. Morea and Naxos taken with little difficulty by Venetian troops. This is due to hopelessly inadequate Turkish defences in the region. Their armies are now fighting a losing war.

By the end of December, 1535, Alexandretta is captured by Persian forces. Combined Iraqi and Persian successes in the middle-east are reaching a fever-pitch. Turk armies are in total chaos there.


l) Nish, (Kosovo) is stormed in force by a huge 50,000 man Hungarian army and the 10,000 Turk garrison is cut to pieces.


additional: In stark contrast to what is happening on land, Turkish/English naval forces are completing the annihilation of several Venetian fleets in the area. They now control the Mediterranean with overwhelming naval fire-power. Venice losses most of its fleet in subsequent encounters.

Bucharest (Wallacia) is recaptured by Wallacio/Hung/Moldavian army counting in excess of 35,000 men. Turkish hold on those two states (since the start of the war)is finally and completley broken.

In the Middle-East Turkish re-inforcements arrive in force and flood occupied Syrian territory. Persian forces retreat in mass and the Turks step into Damaskus.

Despite this, Hungarian forces are now skirmishing as far as the walls of Constantinople. Turkish armies in the Balkans are non existant. Turkey has been severly crushed in this war.


Iraq signs a separate peace treaty with the Turks on these grounds: The Ottomans pay 250 ducats (huge sum) in indemnities and Iraq also takes Nuyssabin. This is formally signed on April 6th, 1536. Turkish envoys arrive in Venice beginning for a resolution to this war and are willing to hand over all of Albania (and its capital of Preveza) as well as most of Greece (and its capital Athens, Hellas) to Venice. This is agreed upon immediately.

An incredibly well done campaign, however it cost the Venetians highly. They have lost over 90% of its naval forces after engagements with England and Turkey on the sea.


August 2nd 1541, several years after the end of the war.

In a glorious moment Hungary and Venice agree to mould their respective countries into a combined Commonwealth. Venetian and Hungarian lands are merged under the Venetian flag! This has taken over 20 years and much cash / skillful diplomacy. There is a new Commonwealth in town! :)

* We take all Hungarian lands (their fortresses and defences are in superb shape)
* Our army size increases between 2 and 3 x due to the inclusion of Hungarian armies into our structure. Combined armies under command of the Commonwealth stand at close to 100,000 men.

(my next aim is to vassalize Moldavia and Wallacia)

End AAR.

Statistics that'll make your head spin ..

Venetian total losses up to this point.

---------------------------------------------

Total Losses 82,329 (Infantry ) DTC: 45,945. Attrition : 36,384

11,000 (Cavalry ) DTC: 3,745. A : 7,225

106 (Artillery) DTC: 24. A : 82

(DTC = Due to Combat)


Warships DTC: 11 A: 0
Galley DTC: 17 A: 1
Transp. DTC: 5 A: 0

------------------------------
Basic Victory Points - Venice.

Battle 6.
Diplomacy 89.
Discovery 0.
Economy 51.
Establish. 0.
Missions 0.
Peace resolutions. 38.


------------------------------

Income (1539 last year, 1540 this year)

Direct Taxes - 61
Events - 0
Export Duties - 24 - 29
Gold - 0
Manufac. - 0
Merchant Fees - 55 - 52
Peace - 0 - 0
Production - 37 - 45
Taxation - 95 - 99
Trade - 53 - 53

Total 1539: 325 ducats
Total 1540: 279 ducats

(again, trade is high on my income list along with Merchant Fees)

% spread of above income.

36% Tax Income
19% Merchant Fees.
19% Trade
16% Production
11% Export Duties (as you see I've established quite a Trade empire)


--------------------------------


Expenses (1539) (1540)

Army maint. 11. 30. 18%
Building Fleets. 20. 41. 25%
Building Forts. 126. 0.
Events. 50. 25.
Fleet maint. 3. 3.
Interests. 26. 13.
Merchants. 25. 34. 21%
Raising armies. 112. 16.

Total 1539: 373 ducats
Total 1540: 162 ducats (December 1540)


Note: I've missed out some expense classes. due to them not costing me anything i.e. 0.

Army maintaining increases from 11 to 30 as a result of the combining of Venice and Hungary and the need to maintain Hungarian troops of over 60,000 men.

Fleet building is also increasing due to the fact that my naval forces were diced into pieces in the last war. Building forts. is obvious: A high drive for defence in 1539.

Finally.. Here is Venice in 1522-1523 (statistics) so you can see and compare. This is Venice before the start of anywars, the scenario has been going for 2 years game-time.


------

Income (1522) - (1523) June.
Direct Taxes 73. 0.
Export Duties 19. 8.
Gold 0. 0.
Interests. 0. 2.
Merchant Fees 37. 20. (20%
Peace 0. 0.
Production 22. 10.
Taxation 67. 31. (32%
Trade 78. 28. (28%

Total 1522: 296 ducats
Total 1523j: 99 ducats.

* again some classifications have been editied out due to being at 0. both years.

---------------------------------------------

Expenses. (1522)

Army Maintenance 39 - 28%.
Building manufac 110 - 13%.
Fleet Maintenanc 51 - 36%.
Merchants 12 -
Raising Armies 28 - 23%.
------------------------------

* again some classifications have been editied out

Sapura (hope you've enjoyed this)

[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 03-06-2000).]
 
Thank you very much nice AAR.

Like the commonwealth idea. Are there any restrictions on who you can form a commonwealth with? I guess the real Question is do you have to share a common border?
 
Dragon,

Nope, no common borders. Hungary / Hungarian forces / Hungarian lands are all united under the flag of Venice. In reality they have been 'peacefully' annexed. But since it is two distinct races, I chose to call it a Commonwealth. In the same way as with Poland-Lithuania.

Sapura
 
Glorious!!! What a well-fought war! The involvement of the English worried me for a second...glad you found Poland as an ally...and what a stroke of good fortune you found in Hungary! I didn't know it was possible to peacefully swallow up (annex) so expansive a state! How did you develop such a close relationship with the Magyars? $$$, or just participating in the Turkish Wars as brothers-in-arms? Either way, well done...

now...where is the Republic/Commonwealth headed? Still needling at the ancient enemy? Perhaps now, with that other Catholic Commonwealth at your side, would be a good time to move against the Hapsburgs and make inroads into Germany...or secure the Mediterranean Sea as a Venetian lake by weakening Spain (i.e. the unification of Italy at the expense of Spain and her allies?).

Do you find yourself at a disadvantage serving under a Doge? Are their abilities weaker than the monarchs of other nations? Does Venice produce any military leaders of note? Do you have any explorers at your disposal...couldn't help but notice that you had no points in the Discovery column...with the constant warfare, that is to be expected, but it'd be a shame if a maritime power such as Venice would be unable to colonize distant lands...

again, another brilliant AAR. Thanks.

------------------
-J. Mariani
 
I'm actually surprised at how small Venice's navy is ... or was before it was thrashed by the Turks. :) Seems that they would have had the largest fleet in the Med at that time. Definitely larger than the Infidel Turks.

Re: exploring

It's pretty accurate that Venice has no exploring points. (Not that it's not somewhat available, but hsould be hard for them.) They were basically a Med power. Not much to explore there. All of their ships were galleys (and later gallaeases), but wholely unsuited to exploration and even really leaving the Med/Black Sea area.

Jason
 
Ah, Sapura, your AARs just keep getting better. If only there had been some screenshots to go with this one! :(

Seeing Venice and Hungaria join in a Commonwealth got me thinking - what were the historical goals of Venice? Could this have happened? I find that unlikely to the point of the impossible. Venice was a purely mercantile nation that acquired and held land only for the sake of profit. It never had any imperial aspirations, but fought fiercely to protect its trade ventures.

With this in mind, I don't regard Venetian colonialism as all that far-fetched. In many ways, Venice (and Genoa) were quite similar to the Netherlands. In fact, I wonder why this never happened... Treaty of Tordesillas?

What's my point? Well, when I finally get to play this game (Christmas 2010!?), I will attempt to 'role-play' the nations to a great degree because it will give me a sense of really changing history; not breaking it. ;)

Greven playing as the Papal State could have reasonably unified Italy and started a crusade against Islam. (Some Popes were quite militant, but their hands were often tied due to intrigue and strong foreign interests.)

Sapura as King of Poland... Well, Poland(-Lithuania) could definitely have completely annexed Russia and prevented Brandenburg-Prussia from ever ascending, creating a more deadly (and more civilized :)) Slavic Empire than Russia became.

England and Russia... When playing as England or Russia in EU, it is more a matter of attempting to succeed as well as they actually did than to improve on history. These two nations are the historical winners (due to luck, skill and geography; not fate :)), thus less interesting to play IMO.

Let's take Sweden as a more detailed example (since I know its history so well). IMO, Sweden could have gone pretty much any which way - continental imperialism, colonialism or isolationism. The way I see it, in the most positive possible scenario, Sweden could have:

1) Lastingly united Scandinavia. (Very, very nearly happened under Charles X in 1660. Did happen before in the form of the Kalmar Union.)

2) Lastingly integrated the Baltic provinces Estonia, Livonia and Courland. (Estonia and Livonia were parts of Sweden until 1721.)

2) Taken and colonized Kola, Onega and Far Karelia. (A likely outcome of the Great Northern War.)

3) Vassalized Russia and/or Poland. (This nearly happened in the 'Time of Troubles' and the 'Deluge', respectively.)

4) Founded a large and prosperous 'New Sweden' in North America. (It did happen, but the budding colony was lost to the Dutch due to half-hearted interest.)

5) Integrated and held on to parts of Northern Germany. (This did happen at the Peace of Westphalia in 1648.)

Concentrating mostly on colonialism, Sweden could have colonized the entire present day Canada and parts of the northern US. This could easily have happened if the idea had ever taken root in Council. (Although the Swedish nobility tended to disdain mercantilism.)

For me, anything beyond this would feel fake and detract from the gaming pleasure. Ideally, the game environment should react against extremely aberrant behaviour.

IMO, language groups should be introduced in the game to simulate ethnic barriers beyond religion. This is something to consider for EU 2.

Heh, this got longish. Maybe I should have posted it separately... :)

/Doomie

[This message has been edited by Doomdark (edited 04-06-2000).]
 
i wanted turkey to win and crush those dirty Venecian dogs.

imo, why would you want to fight against turkey (did your monarch 'persuade' you to do it?), wouldn't it have been smarter to ally with Turkey, Spain, and Iraq, to have complete control over the mediteranean?

btw, in EU, is Spain Islamic(Muslim) or Christian?
 
Mariani,


stroke of good fortune you found in Hungary


:) It was a stroke of good GOLD that did it combined with continued pressure in the diplomatic circles. It was NOT easy for this to happen. Vassalizing countries by itself takes quite a bit of diplomatic discussion and a good deal of persuasion through $$$.


here is the Republic/Commonwealth headed?

The annihilation of Turkey as a super-power. Need I say more? :) I am a bit worried about Austria though. She is beginning to get extremely hostilt towards me. She WAS my ally over 20 years ago though, and the relationship but the relationship is getting worse.


their abilities weaker than the monarchs of

Their abilities are just like other monarchs'

e.g. Military / Administrative / Diplomatic. Some are good, some are average, and so on.


Venice produce any military leaders of note

Don't know much about the history of Venice. Perhaps Greven or Marcus would know. I'd say some naval commanders would definately be in there?

As for colonists, I've had 0 colonists. This is probably due to it being a specific scenario dealing only with Venice / Turkey mostly.


iamspam,

how small Venice's navy is

Well, it was small yeah. But this is due to me maxing out most of my funds out on land forces, which I agree was a good idea. I know historically Venice had a massive navy, but this game does not need to follow a purely historical path :) Hence the combination of Venice and Hungary :) I am however now growing my navy to massive standards.

/Doom-meister,

If only there had been some screenshots to go with this one!

I made lots of screenshots, but as you know :(


sense of really changing history; not breaking it.

Well, I like to make the game as historically random as possible in most cases. I do agree that a Commonwealth of those two countries may not have ever happened. However, both countries were anti-Turk, both were saddled on the borders with the Ottomans. How can you exclude the possibility of some sort of an extremely close partnership (the type Poland / Lithuanian formed to face the Teutonic Order) due to a possible mass invasion from the Ottomans?


prevented Brandenburg-Prussia from ever ascending

If only Sobieski was not so obsessed with the Turks. :(


Vassalized Russia and/or Poland. (This nearly happened in the 'Time of Troubles' and the 'Deluge', respectively.)

Well I'd venture to say that Poland did not officially 'vasalize' Russia, just like Sweden never officially vassalized Poland during the deluge. A large section of the ruling classes never wanted both to happen.


colonized the entire present day Canada and part

Oh my God. A Swedish speaking Canada? Ye gods, what next? A Russian speaking America? :)


APHicks,

I chose to attack Turkey because they are the enemies of Christiandom :) Also, because they have a -200 relationship with me .. and because given enough time they would attack me first. Allying myself with Turkey? Hmm, I don't think its feasable. Though it's an interesting idea. An alliance of Turkey / Venice / Iraq / Persia invading Europe...


Pole,

Austria is getting very hostile towards me..

Btw, with the new aar, Turkish power has been crushed in the Balkans. ;)


Sapura
 
Originally posted by APKicks on 06-04-2000 01:40 AM
i wanted turkey to win and crush those dirty Venecian dogs.


btw, in EU, is Spain Islamic(Muslim) or Christian?


I don't know about the Computer Gane, but it should be Christian... and a staunch Roman Catholic too! After all, the Jews were expelled from Spain 1492 and the muslims were likewise in the early 17th century (I don't recall the date, but was some time between 1601 and 1610, definitely during the reign of King Philip III of Spain (aka King Philip II of Portugal. I hope you agree Henrique! ;) ), between 1598 and 1621.

Since the conquest of the city of Granada (NOT the island of Grenada!) in 1492, Spain had a large Muslim population which was discriminated in religion, language and customs. The situation grew worse until in the 1570s revolt sparked in SE Spain. The rebels hoped for help from Turkey and the Muslims in Northern Africa, but Spain managed to crush the rebellion after some years of hard-fought war. Of course, when the 'Moriscos' (as they were known) were expelled in the early 17th century, Spain became a completely Catholic country... although this crippled the economy in those parts of Spain where there was a large percentage of Moriscos (e.g., Valencia).

Martin
 
In the computergame, Spain is catholic and so are its provinces. However, the two former provinces of Granada in the south start the game as moslem.

/Johan @ Paradox
 
Originally posted by Johan on 06-04-2000 03:24 PM
In the computergame, Spain is catholic and so are its provinces. However, the two former provinces of Granada in the south start the game as moslem.

/Johan @ Paradox

Really? Whow! This is just another proof (as if any more were needed) of how good and historically accurate the work you are all doing is. Once again, congratulations!

But please, try to release the game as soon as possible...!

Martin
 
Originally posted by Raphael on 06-04-2000 06:05 PM
Hi Martin

The expulsion of Moriscos happened in 1609.

Raf

Thank you, Raf. I had the feeling it was in 1609, but I was not too sure and I did not want to open my mouth too much until I had been able to check the data with my books tonight. You have saved me some work there! Again, thanks.

Martin