Exiled at sea

[TheMeInTeam]

There are circumstances right now where if you declare war and land units, they are exiled upon landing despite being aboard ships on DoW. This shouldn't happen. It violates not only history, but common sense of the meaning of the word "exile".

How is it you're getting "exiled" on boats? Who is exiling you from their territory? This is like the time where you could get "exiled" by literally nothing; uncolonized provinces. Over a year later, we are still getting exiled by nothing.

 

[Gigawot]

Its stupid how it works but I believe your troops are required to be in your own or allied territory. TBH they dont allow it since they believe it will be exploited too much. on the other hand it would buff naval nations a lot .

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Its stupid how it works but I believe your troops are required to be in your own or allied territory. TBH they dont allow it since they believe it will be exploited too much. on the other hand it would buff naval nations a lot .

No, usually you don't get exiled, and you can clear it by getting on/off the boat again. Certain timings will exile you though.

It could just be a bug. You never know really.

 

[Isaios]

Hasn't it been so you get exiled for like one or two days while disembarking. I always see a black flag, but it has always disappeared before the troops land.

They're actually hitting soil black-flagged?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hasn't it been so you get exiled for like one or two days while disembarking. I always see a black flag, but it has always disappeared before the troops land.

They're actually hitting soil black-flagged?

Yes, apparently it happens if you land after declaring soon enough.

But it shouldn't. You shouldn't be exiled by nothing.

 

[Gigawot]

Oh i thought you got exiled by boat anyway you did it

 

[Isaios]

Yes, apparently it happens if you land after declaring soon enough.

But it shouldn't. You shouldn't be exiled by nothing.

Agreed!

How very odd. Did you start landing the troops, then declare the day before they landed or something like that? Would like to know what not to do myself

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Agreed!

How very odd. Did you start landing the troops, then declare the day before they landed or something like that? Would like to know what not to do myself

Declared while landing, yes.

 

[CDFW]

Declared while landing, yes.

Well its either a bug (aka they shouldnt be getting exiled on boat but they are), or WAD (to prevent you from dowing a nations friend right before your troops land to instantly land troops or fight). Its really hard to know without a dev reply, or someone finding something in one of the existing patch notes confirming its addition

 

[Tacticus101]

Declared while landing, yes.

That sounds much more reasonable....

 

[szmik]

Declared while landing, yes.

Seems WAD then. You started disembarking in territory you'd get exiled..

 

[Atlantians]

What it should do is restart the landing instead.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Seems WAD then. You started disembarking in territory you'd get exiled..

No, I was on the boat. I got exiled, while on the boat, heading into a nation where I'd have MA. I was not "in territory" at all. I was in the water.

If the game is mechanically consistent (IE if I were to engage an enemy fleet), my troops are not in any territory. If they were, they would be exiled but would also not be at risk at sea.

You can't make your argument unless you're willing to concede that units landing in such a scenario are not or should not be at risk of being killed along with the navy that carries them. Are you willing to make that case, or is arguing in favor of mechanical inconsistency the name of this game?

Personally, I'm tired of constant inconsistencies in mechanics. Fake difficulty is not something advertised in this package.

What it should do is restart the landing instead.

Bypassing move lock? Why is it that units not on a province should count as on the province, exactly? It's not like it's difficult to land on the AI using this method anyway...it doesn't even take a month to dump troops onto non hostile territory. This is just a cheap little hidden rule/bug (can't tell) that lacks consistency with the movement mechanics in general.

We are not playing I wanna be the guy...right?

 

[szmik]

No, I was on the boat. I got exiled, while on the boat, heading into a nation where I'd have MA. I was not "in territory" at all. I was in the water.

If the game is mechanically consistent (IE if I were to engage an enemy fleet), my troops are not in any territory. If they were, they would be exiled but would also not be at risk at sea.

You can't make your argument unless you're willing to concede that units landing in such a scenario are not or should not be at risk of being killed along with the navy that carries them. Are you willing to make that case, or is arguing in favor of mechanical inconsistency the name of this game?

Personally, I'm tired of constant inconsistencies in mechanics. Fake difficulty is not something advertised in this package.

Technically you were in the course of disembarking, so some of your troops were on shore, some on ships. It's like during Normandy landings Germans had a fleet and attacked. The troops would be in really precarious position. In your case, those on shore would be exiled, while those on ships attacked, but the game can't split it, so both mechanics work. Imho it is consistent.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Technically you were in the course of disembarking, so some of your troops were on shore, some on ships. It's like during Normandy landings Germans had a fleet and attacked. The troops would be in really precarious position. In your case, those on shore would be exiled, while those on ships attacked, but the game can't split it, so both mechanics work. Imho it is consistent.

If I were to be engaged and sunk, but some of my troops remained alive, you would have a point. But that doesn't happen.

So you don't. The game exiles you in the water, mechanically.

 

[szmik]

If I were to be engaged and sunk, but some of my troops remained alive, you would have a point. But that doesn't happen.

So you don't. The game exiles you in the water, mechanically.

It's only because game doesn't differentiate how many troops are ashore and how many still boarded and uses time of disembarkment as an abstraction. Anyway such minutiae is not required.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's only because game doesn't differentiate how many troops are ashore and how many still boarded and uses time of disembarkment as an abstraction. Anyway such minutiae is not required.

In every other case the game considers the entire grouped army in one province or the other, effectively teleporting on the arrival day. That's how it treats battle engagements and eligibility for canceling military access.

In saying "such minutiae is not required", you are admitting that I am correct, and that this mechanic is inconsistent...or bugged. You can't use that quote and still be consistent with your above point.

 

[RobRoy3]

No, usually you don't get exiled, and you can clear it by getting on/off the boat again. Certain timings will exile you though.

It could just be a bug. You never know really.

I've always hoped it's a bug. But it's part of that irritating exile mechanic that has NEVER worked well. It's actually a long-standing bug/feature, and one that's pretty consistent. It's just one that most people won't notice. Your units embarked on boat ALWAYS get exiled for a day, regardless of whether they're actively debarking or not. Since they get un-exiled the end of the next day, most people don't notice or care. But if they're scheduled to land the beginning of the next day, you're screwed. Clearly you must be engaged in some evil nefarious badwrongfun and must be stopped. Or you have to micro-manage a bit better and schedule your wardec a day earlier.

In fairness, they've addressed many of the hugely irritating mis-applications of the exile mechanic. Not sure why they chose to keep this one in. But there it is; don't play ironman. More irritating and noticeable are the stray black flags you get with an ally's ill-timed wardec on the other side of the world (especially noticeable in the HRE). Most irritating, but more rare, are the apparently random black flags you still get, sometimes (which I suspect are related to rebels causing a collapse in a completely unrelated nation).

Actually, I take that back - Most irritating is that the purported "exploit" the exile mechanic was supposed to thwart is still readily available.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I've always hoped it's a bug. But it's part of that irritating exile mechanic that has NEVER worked well. It's actually a long-standing bug/feature, and one that's pretty consistent. It's just one that most people won't notice. Your units embarked on boat ALWAYS get exiled for a day, regardless of whether they're actively debarking or not. Since they get un-exiled the end of the next day, most people don't notice or care. But if they're scheduled to land the beginning of the next day, you're screwed. Clearly you must be engaged in some evil nefarious badwrongfun and must be stopped. Or you have to micro-manage a bit better and schedule your wardec a day earlier.

In fairness, they've addressed many of the hugely irritating mis-applications of the exile mechanic. Not sure why they chose to keep this one in. But there it is; don't play ironman. More irritating and noticeable are the stray black flags you get with an ally's ill-timed wardec on the other side of the world (especially noticeable in the HRE). Most irritating, but more rare, are the apparently random black flags you still get, sometimes (which I suspect are related to rebels causing a collapse in a completely unrelated nation).

Actually, I take that back - Most irritating is that the purported "exploit" the exile mechanic was supposed to thwart is still readily available.

Consistent in that it has been around a while maybe, but certainly not consistent with the game's representation of literally ever other instance of movement of which I'm aware.

I agree with you overall though. I guess I can do a 2 day wardec dow and bypass the issue, surely the AI can react to whole extra day!

 

[atwix]

if you declare a war while your troops are on land they have access to by treaty ONLY (so exluding land 'owned' by you or subjects), or if you declare while troops are naval invading, you get black flagged.

I can avoid it, but its hilarious to see Austria subject getting black flagged in Manchuria, just because I declared at wrong time.

I was like, "yay! wonder when they will be back.."