Armed forces by country - a reliable estimate
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Sources (mostly wikipedia, some of the gaps are filled from from my readings over the years, although I hope I was clear which was which).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Australia_during_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Royal_Australian_Navy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Australian_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Royal_Australian_Air_Force
'36 figures would have been similar. The navy would have been slightly different with the 2 of the 3 new LCs were commissioned in 1936 (the first, HMAS Sydney was commissioned in Sep 35). There is reference to their numbers dropping to 3,117 due to the depression, but no date on that, but it's alongside a reference to reserves being 5,446 in '32.
Thank you.
I have found this
1) So can we say that corresponds to 1936 figures?
2) In my understanding the permanent army was 3k plus a reserve of 80k. Do you agree with me?
Good. I have updated Australia and added your name next to itCertainly. (After all, I used those same numbers)
Thank you. I have added your name next to Soviet Union and updated both the post and the figures.
Tommy, could you please provide your estimate of USA army reserve?
Some chinese figures I've dug up:
300 divisions at 6,500 men would give just under 2million. Figures are for 1941
The rank and unit structure of the Kuomintang Army was inflated relative to Western and Japanese armies. Divisions had an official strength of 10,983 men, but most had an actual strength of just 6,000 to 7,000 men, except for a few divisions organized and trained by German advisers before 1937. There were about 300 divisions active in December 1941, of which the vast majority were made up of lightly armed and poorly trained men capable of terrorizing the Chinese peasantry but not of being maintained in combat for any length of time. Total manpower was 3 million men. 1,200,000 men (about 176 divisions) were under Chiang, of whom 650,000 were directly controlled and 550,000 under nominally loyal warlords. The best 31 divisions, "The Generalissimo’s Own" (300,000 men), had been trained and equipped by the Germans prior to the signing of the Tripartite Pact, were led by officers educated at the Central Military Academy in Nanking, and were relatively capable. Foreign observers noted with astonishment that their ranks were actually more literate, on average, than civilian Chinese. However, they were constantly held in reserve against the Communists and rebel warlords (including the Muslim warlords of the northwest), who Chiang regarded as the real long-term enemy. The remaining 145 divisions were under regional warlords or the Communists.
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/h/China.htm
These figures are for 1937 and considering the poor infrastructure and organization of the Chinese government and the poor training of most of the soldiers 1937 is probably the best figure we will get:
This puts the figure for Nationalist China at about 1.2mil, this is excluding pseudo-independant warlords but includes local militias and paramilitary-esque armies:
Another 520,000-odd men belonged to formations that were traditionally loyal to Chiang, though not of his own creation. Together with this hard core, these gave him a strength of 900,000 men that the government could rely upon. Beyond these armies there existed another class of so-called ‘semi-autonomous provincial troops’ that could sometimes be mobilized in the KMT government’s interest, totalling perhaps another 300,000 men divided between the provinces of Suiyuan, Shansi and Shangtung in the north, and Kwangtung in the south-east.
Warlords are at 420,000 men, most of them very poorly equipped:
The rest of the Nationalist army was made up of troops led by commanders who, while having no real loyalty to Chiang Kai-shek, were willing to fight alongside him against the common enemy, Japan. The fighting quality of these troops of questionable loyalty varied from very good to extremely poor. For instance, the 80,000 soldiers and 90,000 militia of the far southern province of Kwangsi were well-led, equipped and disciplined, while the 250,000 soldiers of Szechuan in the south-west were described as the worst-trained and equipped, most undisciplined and disloyal of all Chinese Nationalist troops.
http://ww2-weapons.com/chinese-nationalist-army/
I'm not too sure on either of these sources, they are not concrete, but they are better than nothing.
From what I've gathered there were 120,000 soldiers trained by the Germans including 15,000 officers. There was also the 500,000-ish government army which was loyal to the central Chinese government. From this we can estimate 1936 army size at 600-650,000 personnel.
300 divisions at 6,500 men would give just under 2million. Figures are for 1941
The rank and unit structure of the Kuomintang Army was inflated relative to Western and Japanese armies. Divisions had an official strength of 10,983 men, but most had an actual strength of just 6,000 to 7,000 men, except for a few divisions organized and trained by German advisers before 1937. There were about 300 divisions active in December 1941, of which the vast majority were made up of lightly armed and poorly trained men capable of terrorizing the Chinese peasantry but not of being maintained in combat for any length of time. Total manpower was 3 million men. 1,200,000 men (about 176 divisions) were under Chiang, of whom 650,000 were directly controlled and 550,000 under nominally loyal warlords. The best 31 divisions, "The Generalissimo’s Own" (300,000 men), had been trained and equipped by the Germans prior to the signing of the Tripartite Pact, were led by officers educated at the Central Military Academy in Nanking, and were relatively capable. Foreign observers noted with astonishment that their ranks were actually more literate, on average, than civilian Chinese. However, they were constantly held in reserve against the Communists and rebel warlords (including the Muslim warlords of the northwest), who Chiang regarded as the real long-term enemy. The remaining 145 divisions were under regional warlords or the Communists.
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/h/China.htm
These figures are for 1937 and considering the poor infrastructure and organization of the Chinese government and the poor training of most of the soldiers 1937 is probably the best figure we will get:
This puts the figure for Nationalist China at about 1.2mil, this is excluding pseudo-independant warlords but includes local militias and paramilitary-esque armies:
Another 520,000-odd men belonged to formations that were traditionally loyal to Chiang, though not of his own creation. Together with this hard core, these gave him a strength of 900,000 men that the government could rely upon. Beyond these armies there existed another class of so-called ‘semi-autonomous provincial troops’ that could sometimes be mobilized in the KMT government’s interest, totalling perhaps another 300,000 men divided between the provinces of Suiyuan, Shansi and Shangtung in the north, and Kwangtung in the south-east.
Warlords are at 420,000 men, most of them very poorly equipped:
The rest of the Nationalist army was made up of troops led by commanders who, while having no real loyalty to Chiang Kai-shek, were willing to fight alongside him against the common enemy, Japan. The fighting quality of these troops of questionable loyalty varied from very good to extremely poor. For instance, the 80,000 soldiers and 90,000 militia of the far southern province of Kwangsi were well-led, equipped and disciplined, while the 250,000 soldiers of Szechuan in the south-west were described as the worst-trained and equipped, most undisciplined and disloyal of all Chinese Nationalist troops.
http://ww2-weapons.com/chinese-nationalist-army/
I'm not too sure on either of these sources, they are not concrete, but they are better than nothing.
From what I've gathered there were 120,000 soldiers trained by the Germans including 15,000 officers. There was also the 500,000-ish government army which was loyal to the central Chinese government. From this we can estimate 1936 army size at 600-650,000 personnel.
Some figures for Sweden...
By 1939 when the war broke out the Swedish government called out for a full mobilization of the militia (hemvärnet, literally Homeguard), which grew to include some 250 000 people, which is impressive figures for such a small nation as Sweden. They were however extremely poorly trained and their gear was very outdated. The standing arming was raised from roughly 25 000 men to a total of 50 000 men, once again an impressive figure but their training and gear was adequate and there were a full total of sixteen (16!) armored vehicles that weren't completely outdated technologically available to the Swedish high command.
There was plenty of cavalry though!
The total capable air force of Sweden on the first of September was 57 bombers and 33 fighters (and saw themselves forced to try and import over 200 Italian aircraft).
Sweden possessed no more than a handful modern ships for their navy and once again, were forced to import Italian goods.
In 1938 the (very naive) Swedish defense budget was at 258 million Swedish kronors, while in 1941 it had grown almost tenfold to 2000 million Swedish kronors.
The army had, by 1941, grown to include 400 000 men.
Swedish sources:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolumnister/hermanlindqvist/article17384445.ab
http://krigochhistoria.blogspot.se/2013/05/nagra-rader-om-svenskt-forsvar-under.html
By 1939 when the war broke out the Swedish government called out for a full mobilization of the militia (hemvärnet, literally Homeguard), which grew to include some 250 000 people, which is impressive figures for such a small nation as Sweden. They were however extremely poorly trained and their gear was very outdated. The standing arming was raised from roughly 25 000 men to a total of 50 000 men, once again an impressive figure but their training and gear was adequate and there were a full total of sixteen (16!) armored vehicles that weren't completely outdated technologically available to the Swedish high command.
There was plenty of cavalry though!
The total capable air force of Sweden on the first of September was 57 bombers and 33 fighters (and saw themselves forced to try and import over 200 Italian aircraft).
Sweden possessed no more than a handful modern ships for their navy and once again, were forced to import Italian goods.
In 1938 the (very naive) Swedish defense budget was at 258 million Swedish kronors, while in 1941 it had grown almost tenfold to 2000 million Swedish kronors.
The army had, by 1941, grown to include 400 000 men.
Swedish sources:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolumnister/hermanlindqvist/article17384445.ab
http://krigochhistoria.blogspot.se/2013/05/nagra-rader-om-svenskt-forsvar-under.html
Sweden had utilised compulsory conscription for a very long time by 1939, so I'm not so sure about the militia being "extremely poorly trained". About one year of service in the military was essentially compulsory in those days.
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Thank you. Updated
Thank you. I have added Sweden and your name next to it.
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Czechoslovakia at the end of September 1938
http://armada.vojenstvi.cz/predvalecna/cisla/2.htm
From top:
People
Horses
Trucks
Guns (Only new models)
Pistols (Only new models)
Machine guns (Only new models)
Minomet(little mortal) (Only new models)
AT guns (without AT guns used in fortifications)
Field artillery (including 40 heavy artillery)
Light tanks
Armored cars
Small tanks (worse than lt)
Armored trains
Airplanes
Anti aircraft machine guns
Anti aircraft guns
http://armada.vojenstvi.cz/predvalecna/cisla/2.htm
People
Horses
Trucks
Guns (Only new models)
Pistols (Only new models)
Machine guns (Only new models)
Minomet(little mortal) (Only new models)
AT guns (without AT guns used in fortifications)
Field artillery (including 40 heavy artillery)
Light tanks
Armored cars
Small tanks (worse than lt)
Armored trains
Airplanes
Anti aircraft machine guns
Anti aircraft guns
Extremely poorly trained is the wrong word. Can we say extremely outdated training? Their ideas of modern war revolved around 1914-1918 theories and their weaponry was of that caliber too.
Very good at marching, very bad at Auftragstaktik. Does that make sense?
I don't think the figures in the first post are accurate. Pretty sure Russia had more men than that. Finland sure as hell didn't have an active strength of 100k, not even close.
Please report your figures and sources. Then I will amend what is needed
For the average militiaman that might be true, shortages of modern equipment probably gave the home guard soldiers no great knowledge of modern warfare. It should be said however that the high command knew how to fight modern wars were they only granted the proper hardware, and that the Swedish terrain (mountainous, forested and sparsely populated) most likely would have off-set some of the advantages of the then-newly introduced war machines had brought nations such as Germany, and been helpful to men trained with nothing but infantry tactics.
There is this old army training film from 1941 that comes to mind, you might find it interesting
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Further on Canada: I have been unable to find anything for 1936 so far but I found this "When war came in 1939 , Canada possessed only about 4500 professional soldiers, while the professional strengths of her naval and air forces were about 1800 and about 3100 respectively." This is from the official history by C.P. Stacey.
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/oh-ho/detail-eng.asp?BfBookLang=1&BfId=33
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/oh-ho/detail-eng.asp?BfBookLang=1&BfId=33
Right, this is a serious thread with data based on proper sources. I respect and agree with that, but right now I'm too lazy and as such I don't expect any changes based on what I say in this post.
That being said, I did a quick search on the Russian figures and they do seem about right (at least for 1941 which is what I was specifically looking at), although apparently 5 million more men were being called to service already before Barbarossa. That isn't to say that they'd all have been combat-ready on June 22nd.
Regarding peace-time Finnish active strength figures, well these are actually pretty hard to find online. The current strength, excluding conscripts, is only 12k, and a third of those are civilians or people with only civilian training. If you include conscripts, then the figure is 30,5k. The highest the active strength has ever been has most likely been during peace-time was in the 1980s when the wartime strength was also the highest (750k), and even then the former was well below 100k. Given the lower population and the sorry state of the FDF in the 1930s, I'd wager money on the fact that the active strength was nowhere close to 100k.
What actually sounds like has happened, is that whoever provided you that statistic included both conscripts and also members of the Civil Guard. Even then however, I'm not sure the figure would reach 100k.
EDIT: And as a clarification, Civil Guards were not men in active service. I guess you could say conscripts are, but not in the same way as professional soldiers.
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