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Development Diary #22 - 1st of April 2009

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I don't know the entire "recipe" for HOI3 yet, but I suspect that it is going to be a much tighter, more coherent and overall better orchestrated representation of WW2 style lobal strategic warfare, at least for the major nations. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into it. I don't agree with some of the design decisions made to date, but I'm confident that this game will be on my hard drive for a long, long time because it is being optimized for my kind of strategic warfare.
 
Bad Santa said:
Does anyone know what the system requirements are going to be for this? So for example if i can run games such EU:Rome and EU3 do you think i'll be able to run this?
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I believe is logical to expect we will be able to run HOI III on same machines required for EU III.
 
All you peace lovers..

Isn't the point of Hearts of WAR to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women? Only with frigging tanks!
 
Removing peace negotiations is terrible...

Personally, i had modded HoI2 so that even the big "three" could do peace negotiations (just tinker with the scenario files: put all "allies" in a normal alliance, all "commintern" members into another normal alliance, and all "axis" to another.)

The system was exploitable, but also offered great strategic options. This is an example:
a. I as Germany get the vichy event. I choose "total conquest".
b. I occupy all continental france, getting a peace score of 25% with the alliance leader -UK- and 90% with France.
c. Now i had to choose:
1. Use the 25% war score to sign a white peace with the leader of the allies (UK) (the AI would wisely refuse to accept border changes when the warscore was not over 70% or sth). The good part is that germany got peace -at least for a while - in the west and a "free hand" in the east.
2. Sign a peace treaty with france, gaining territory but losing the chance for a complete peace with the allies (France out of the war, so the warscore with the alliance leader-UK- goes back to zero.

I was hoping that the "diplomacy" system would be made smarter in HOI3, so that no "bitter peace" events would be needed. Removing all peace negotiations really removes one of my favourite parts. Couldn't you just make enemies stubborn as hell, but not remove the "negotiations" screen?
 
After a nights reflection upon this I am definately in favour of the new system. My thinking is as follows:

Major Powers - it was all or nothing for them. 'Nuff said :)

Medium & small powers in the alliances (human & AI)- same as above really. Specific instances such as the Winter War and switching of sides by certain nations would be handled by events.

Medium & small powers not in the alliances (AI) - in HOI2 these were very unlikely to go to war anyway - the only one I can think of off the top of my head was Peru/Equador - most likely be event based in any event.

Medium & small powers not in the alliances (human) - lets face it if you want salami tactics as one of these you really need to get some delusions of grandeur - it's world conquest or nothing :rolleyes:
 
Timmetie said:
All you peace lovers..

Isn't the point of Hearts of WAR to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women? Only with frigging tanks!
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We should put this on the box.
 
Timmetie said:
All you peace lovers..

Isn't the point of Hearts of WAR to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women? Only with frigging tanks!
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No, the point is crushing the enemy to a point where he(and his woman) begs for negotiations and THEN DICTATE the peace.

Seriously Paradox, who came up with that over simplifying idea?:confused:
That takes away so much of the atmosphere and of my incentive to buy your game.

The fact that so many folks around here thought it was a joke speaks for itself.
 
Kuiper said:
No, the point is crushing the enemy to a point where he(and his woman) begs for negotiations and THEN DICTATE the peace.

Seriously Paradox, who came up with that over simplifying idea?:confused:
That takes away so much of the atmosphere and of my incentive to buy your game.

The fact that so many folks around here thought it was a joke speaks for itself.
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exactly what negotiations were around in hoi1 and hoi2? Last time I checked the AI fought to the bitter end there.
 
Johan said:
exactly what negotiations were around in hoi1 and hoi2? Last time I checked the AI fought to the bitter end there.
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you could argue that selecting the Annex button is a negotiation of sorts?
 
Kuiper said:
No, the point is crushing the enemy to a point where he(and his woman) begs for negotiations and THEN DICTATE the peace.

Seriously Paradox, who came up with that over simplifying idea?:confused:
That takes away so much of the atmosphere and of my incentive to buy your game.

The fact that so many folks around here thought it was a joke speaks for itself.
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Pfft, In my many hours of HOI2 I've never negotiated peace. And except for the examples now being put into the game neither did any of the allies; nor were they planning to in any conceivable scenario.
When the tables were turned and germany would probably have excepted 1939 borders, or even 1936 terms the allies would have none of it.

HOI3 is based on the battle of 3 ideologies against each other. Ideologies so different and opposed that once war had started it wouldn't be stopped until one was either conquered or converted. Now stop yer whining!

King said:
you could argue that selecting the Annex button is a negotiation of sorts?
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The best kind of negotiation even; just after a metal glove to the face.
 
Johan said:
exactly what negotiations were around in hoi1 and hoi2? Last time I checked the AI fought to the bitter end there.
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Absolutly right. But that's a problem of the AI and not the negotiations system. Neither I nor II worked the way they should have. A huge point to implement it thoroughly this time! Please..?

I think there where enough historical examples the last 14 pages, so I don't need to mention any more. Your point of Total War has its legitimacy, especially considering the Churchill led Allies. But I thought it's called a grand strategy game, not Axis vs. Allies...

Consider the implications for the huge player pool that perfectly know how WW2 worked out and now want to try it their way... I know, there are events, but all the possible combinations of surrender events for 180 countries can't beat a proper truce talk: "Give me that province and we let you live...":)
 
So no future for easy creation of modern days and interwar mods... WWI and WWII can be nicely simulated but other conflicts will require tons of events for that.

OTOH maybe it will be possible to create some genral events (without country TAG) for all kind peace negotiations... or rather a chain of events. It would be much less work than recreate all possible wars between countries. Other thing is that events could simulate peace with 'cease fire' borders. All is possible.

Its a pity that there will be no peace negotiations but I will not cry for it. We can live without it and im sure that they have a good way to simulate other conflicts in that period.

Generally the game is a big step forward and statements like 'I will not buy it' or 'now I will reconsider buying it' sound like response of an offended virgin. :p
Keep up the good work!

EDIT:
I dont remember negotiating peace in HoI2 - well I play 99% of games as Germany so no reason for that IMHO. But I would like to see this option, not neccessarily though, merging presented in this DD point of view with standard treaties which should work the same way.
The negative response of the community is to excessive IMO.
 
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eräjorma said:
Still don't have the skills to do a working peace deal mechanics? I guess scrapping it altogether is a good move to save your face.
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No we dilberately scripted the HoI 1 & 2 peace AIs to fight total war and as such it didn't really want to negotiate. We've taken exactly the same ethos, that you all loved so much, into HoI3 but have taken it to the next level.
 
Johan said:
Just to clarify.. there is a "sign peace" option that signs a status quo peace for occupied claims.. but that is basically not valid in the big ww2 war.
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I guess the AI will be able to decline such a proposal. What will the chances for accepting be based on? Warscore? Captured IC? Other?
 
Grey Wolf said:
Generally the game is a big step forward and statements like 'I will not buy it' or 'now I will reconsider buying it' sound like response of an offended virgin. :p
Keep up the good work!
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Hmm, that's kind of funny!:rofl:
I have bought games in my past, so that makes me offended, but no longer a virgin...

I said "it lowers my incentive", and I'll stick with that. But the developers can still take it as compliment for their project, since I'm no longer a gamer and therefore don't buy games at all...
 
King said:
No we dilberately scripted the HoI 1 & 2 peace AIs to fight total war and as such it didn't really want to negotiate. We've taken exactly the same ethos, that you all loved so much, into HoI3 but have taken it to the next level.
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I think the key to the issue here is not total war situation you describe King, but minor conflicts that players will surely have playing minors (or mods, for that matter).

I know you are focusing on the key players, that should all fight to death, but what was always (well, almost always - see EU:Rome) main strength of the Paradox strategy games is that they had interesting options for playing minors. Now, reducing those minors peace options to fight to death only rightfully concerns players as something that limits their options.

They might be wrong, but it certainly looks like peace resolution system got poorer in this version of the HoI saga.
 
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