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  • Improved Land Value System
    • Service Coverage of Healthcare, Education, Police and Telecom now affects Land Value
    • Reachability of Commercial Services now affects Land Value
    • Stops and Stations of Public Transportation now affect Land Value
    • Noise, Water, Air and Ground Pollution now affect Land Value
    • Shorelines now affects Land Value
I took the liberty to have another look at this announcement. Oh boy.

You see the term "now affects"? They didn't say "fixed the way in which ...." In other words, it didn't do so before.

We are five months past release. It took that long to incorporate functionality literally 100% of the player base would have expected to be available from the get-go. And one might also say that land value calculation is supposed to be a very vital part of the simulation aspect of the game.

That does give us a rather good picture of the state in which the game was released.
In addition, it does tell us a lot of things about the statements of various Youtubers: "Oh, it does have bugs, but there is clearly a deep simulation underneath!"

Lessons learned:
Don't trust CO with their announcements and advertising.
Don't trust Youtubers when they make comments they cannot immediately prove in their clips.
 
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Current Steam reviews trajectory of the "beach" properties DLC since it went on sale:

24% of 25 reviews are positive
11% of 96
7% of 188
7% of 242
6% of 277
5% of 302
4% of 457

It's so sad what CO/Paradox has done to the franchise :(
 
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Performance improvements are noticable in this one aswell. It feels better overall but the change is a lot smaller than in the last patch. I didn't watch simulation speed as closely but I only get to the second setting without weirdnes in a 40k city. (8600k at 5.1ghz)
Modding is a nice addition especially code modding but I really need asset modding to save my Intersections/Interchanges. Hope you get it working in the next patch.
Still looking forward for performance improvements in the future.
The overall wait for the patch is a bit sad, hope to see the next one in a month.
Keeping turning the terrible release around.
 
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Performance improvements are noticable in this one aswell. It feels better overall but the change is a lot smaller than in the last patch. I didn't watch simulation speed as closely but I only get to the second setting without weirdnes in a 40k city. (8600k at 5.1ghz)
Modding is a nice addition especially code modding but I really need asset modding to save my Intersections/Interchanges. Hope you get it working in the next patch.
Still looking forward for performance improvements in the future.
The overall wait for the patch is a bit sad, hope to see the next one in a month.
Keeping turning the terrible release around.

A city of 94k on a high end system (that is: i9-14700k/7900x or better, 4090 GTX and 64GB DDR5 RAM at 6400MTs) would disagree that there are noticable performance improvements.
In fact the Simulation Advancements went from 183 to 185. In a 450k+ city the Simulation Advancement went from 44 to 46.

So.. There's not really any performance enhancement so to speak off. It is so insignificant a change that you can't be sure it isn't just some blurp, because you're not running the exact same background processes.
 
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Just watched the video about the bug fixes, Paradox mods, map editor, beach properties etc by City Planner Plays
--he gives quite a detailed and useful summary with pros and cons--everyone would be sell served to view this video as it may answer a lot of your questions.
 
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Dear CO,

I'm not sure how to put this in a constructive way. As a huge city builder fan for decades, I was waiting for this patch to give CS2 a last chance after the total release disaster. I stopped playing CS2 roughly a month ago (or longer), after having logged around 200 hours with a 250k pop city. You decided to massively decrease the patch release cadence, which puts a huge pressure and focus on the few patches that you still release. Given the absolutely massive amount of critical bugs and issues that CS2 is facing, it seems obvious that this decision was a huge mistake and a slap into the face of every customer. Well, it seems obvious for everyone except of you. Or maybe you simply don't care at all and you are already in your usual "let's milk the customers with DLCs" execution mode.

Now we have that long awaited patch, and it is a huge disappointment:
  • It turns out the "land value fix" was not really a fix, you just finally implemented a proper land value system that was not even there. Wow. Another "wow" is that you finally fixed a "bug" after 6 months, something that a simple mod actually fixed 4 month ago. Don't you feel completely embarrassed?
  • The "performance improvements" are hardly noticeable on my i7-12700K/3080 12GB/64GB RAM/SSD system with the 250k city in 4k. And it still has very irregular frame times, with the GPU usually not being the limit. What exactly did you do in the past 3+ months?
  • All the critical key issues with the game are still not fixed. Public transportation, where I still see despawning vehicles regularly, creating a mess, and all the other issues that completely break public transport, which again completely breaks the game. And the same for all others around the solar energy simulation (incl. day/night toggle), cargo, etc.
  • You fixed a few crash-to-desktop scenarios, to mention something positive, but then again those few fixes cannot have occupied your dev team for more than 3 months. These are things you usually fix within a few weeks in addition to other major work
  • And then there is that Beach thingy DLC ... which I only have because I was stupid enough to pay 90€, the highest price I ever paid for a game, for the CS2 Ultimate edition. Because, I thought as a huge city builder fan who loved CS1, there's nothing that can go wrong with that. Well, here we are
Let me be clear: I am done waiting another 2-3 months for another patch that may or may not fix at least some of those huge amount of critical bugs and gameplay issues that still break the game. I abandon CS2, which is absolutely shocking for me. Last summer, I thought CS2 will be the game where I will spend a large part (i.e. the very most) of my gaming time in 2024. But I am done with CS2 and I am done with CO. You did not only make a horrible mistake by releasing the game in such disastrous condition, you also haven't learned the slightest bit at all. You even continued to take horrible decisions by massively decreasing the patching cadence, you took wrong decisions by not acknowledging the critical issues as urgencies, and at the same time you delivered even the worst DLC ever at the most overpriced level ever.

How is it that you don't realize that you are driving this once successful franchise with ultimate high-speed into a massive concrete wall?

Now I am going back to other simulation games that I enjoy and that actually deliver what they promise. CO often uses the small team as an excuse for nearly everything. It's an excuse that in fact they are completely overwhelmed and not capable any more to handle the mess. Let me mention two other simulation games that are created by an even smaller team, i.e. mostly a one-person creation, that are doing so much better than CS2. For one, I can recommend Highrise City. It's a lot of fun, it actually works, and the developer is continuously pushing out new additions and improvements. For free. Don't go there with the classic expectation of a SimCity/CS city builder. It is more a resource and production chain simulation, but a really good one. Take the city simulation as such as a visual output of what is happening with the production chain simulation and you'll have a lot of fun.

Or, of course, wait for Manor Lords, another one-person project that seems to work already much better than CS2 ever will, and it looks much better than CS2 ever will. Hey, and you will actually see crops on the fields there already, not like CS2 where 6 months after release you still have that horrible standard ground texture. And there is actually grass, something that we still miss in CS2. Oh wait, I know why we're missing it in CS2, it is because it would blow performance out of the water, because CO cannot properly handle their engine. Which the other one-person projects seem to be able to handle. Talking about "able to handle", in Highrise City you can handle cities with 10+ million pop on a PC like mine. Ok, enough said, good bye Cities Skylines franchise. Another promising frachise that goes extinct in a big blow. Really, really sad, it could have been "my" game for the next years. But it's not.
 
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Dear CO,

I'm not sure how to put this in a constructive way. As a huge city builder fan for decades, I was waiting for this patch to give CS2 a last chance after the total release disaster. I stopped playing CS2 roughly a month ago (or longer), after having logged around 200 hours with a 250k pop city. You decided to massively decrease the patch release cadence, which puts a huge pressure and focus on the few patches that you still release. Given the absolutely massive amount of critical bugs and issues that CS2 is facing, it seems obvious that this decision was a huge mistake and a slap into the face of every customer. Well, it seems obvious for everyone except of you. Or maybe you simply don't care at all and you are already in your usual "let's milk the customers with DLCs" execution mode.

Now we have that long awaited patch, and it is a huge disappointment:
  • It turns out the "land value fix" was not really a fix, you just finally implemented a proper land value system that was not even there. Wow. Another "wow" is that you finally fixed a "bug" after 6 months, something that a simple mod actually fixed 4 month ago. Don't you feel completely embarrassed?
  • The "performance improvements" are hardly noticeable on my i7-12700K/3080 12GB/64GB RAM/SSD system with the 250k city in 4k. And it still has very irregular frame times, with the GPU usually not being the limit. What exactly did you do in the past 3+ months?
  • All the critical key issues with the game are still not fixed. Public transportation, where I still see despawning vehicles regularly, creating a mess, and all the other issues that completely break public transport, which again completely breaks the game. And the same for all others around the solar energy simulation (incl. day/night toggle), cargo, etc.
  • You fixed a few crash-to-desktop scenarios, to mention something positive, but then again those few fixes cannot have occupied your dev team for more than 3 months. These are things you usually fix within a few weeks in addition to other major work
  • And then there is that Beach thingy DLC ... which I only have because I was stupid enough to pay 90€, the highest price I ever paid for a game, for the CS2 Ultimate edition. Because, I thought as a huge city builder fan who loved CS1, there's nothing that can go wrong with that. Well, here we are
Let me be clear: I am done waiting another 2-3 months for another patch that may or may not fix at least some of those huge amount of critical bugs and gameplay issues that still break the game. I abandon CS2, which is absolutely shocking for me. Last summer, I thought CS2 will be the game where I will spend a large part (i.e. the very most) of my gaming time in 2024. But I am done with CS2 and I am done with CO. You did not only make a horrible mistake by releasing the game in such disastrous condition, you also haven't learned the slightest bit at all. You even continued to take horrible decisions by massively decreasing the patching cadence, you took wrong decisions by not acknowledging the critical issues as urgencies, and at the same time you delivered even the worst DLC ever at the most overpriced level ever.

How is it that you don't realize that you are driving this once successful franchise with ultimate high-speed into a massive concrete wall?

Now I am going back to other simulation games that I enjoy and that actually deliver what they promise. CO often uses the small team as an excuse for nearly everything. It's an excuse that in fact they are completely overwhelmed and not capable any more to handle the mess. Let me mention two other simulation games that are created by an even smaller team, i.e. mostly a one-person creation, that are doing so much better than CS2. For one, I can recommend Highrise City. It's a lot of fun, it actually works, and the developer is continuously pushing out new additions and improvements. For free. Don't go there with the classic expectation of a SimCity/CS city builder. It is more a resource and production chain simulation, but a really good one. Take the city simulation as such as a visual output of what is happening with the production chain simulation and you'll have a lot of fun.

Or, of course, wait for Manor Lords, another one-person project that seems to work already much better than CS2 ever will, and it looks much better than CS2 ever will. Hey, and you will actually see crops on the fields there already, not like CS2 where 6 months after release you still have that horrible standard ground texture. And there is actually grass, something that we still miss in CS2. Oh wait, I know why we're missing it in CS2, it is because it would blow performance out of the water, because CO cannot properly handle their engine. Which the other one-person projects seem to be able to handle. Talking about "able to handle", in Highrise City you can handle cities with 10+ million pop on a PC like mine. Ok, enough said, good bye Cities Skylines franchise. Another promising frachise that goes extinct in a big blow. Really, really sad, it could have been "my" game for the next years. But it's not.

You couldn't summarize it better, I agree with everything.

I keep the only hope that the assets mod can reverse the course and make the game excellent and deep, because potentially it is...But towards CO and Paradox trust 0, I draw a veil of mercy.
 
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Dear CO,

I'm not sure how to put this in a constructive way. As a huge city builder fan for decades, I was waiting for this patch to give CS2 a last chance after the total release disaster. I stopped playing CS2 roughly a month ago (or longer), after having logged around 200 hours with a 250k pop city. You decided to massively decrease the patch release cadence, which puts a huge pressure and focus on the few patches that you still release. Given the absolutely massive amount of critical bugs and issues that CS2 is facing, it seems obvious that this decision was a huge mistake and a slap into the face of every customer. Well, it seems obvious for everyone except of you. Or maybe you simply don't care at all and you are already in your usual "let's milk the customers with DLCs" execution mode.
...
And also dear CO/PDX, don't forget to file a refund for this user ^, you're not worthy to have money in your hands.
 
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Like many users here i guess, i'm having a hard time getting back into playing CS2 because it's an investment in gaming time i mean, and I don't know which bugs have been totally resolved and I don't want to start a city from scratch and spend 100 hours of games only to find myself faced with bugs that will make me give up on continuing again, that's why during my previous interventions on this forum I was not enthusiastic when CO announced that they were prioritizing the release of mods and the map editor, in my opinion it is secondary, the priority should have been stable games and not an early access as is unfortunately always the case because many bugs remain.
 
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Yay.....beachfront property...........without actual beaches.........
maybe modders will add that to the list of things they have to fix now that they can fix stuff
 
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So, "Land Value" problem was that there wasn't a "Land Value System" working at all? What a shame...
Performance, apparently was improved. I think that still can be improved more, but they need to rework the assets. May be it's too late to rethink how the level of detail works in the game. Having a lot of details just to take a screenshot, should be activated and deactivated with a button... More work is needed to be done by unpaid programmers, aka modders... LOL
wow thats embarrassing, but not surprising for this dumpster fire
 
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@co_avanya @co_martsu y'all should really add an in-game bug reporting mechanism that would capture the latest gamelog when reporting a crash to desktop or something, I paid top dollar for a fault free product and the crashes to desktop regardless of whatever patch you release is abhorrent. The protocol you have on the Paradox forum is archaic.
 
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I took the liberty to have another look at this announcement. Oh boy.

You see the term "now affects"? They didn't say "fixed the way in which ...." In other words, it didn't do so before.

We are five months past release. It took that long to incorporate functionality literally 100% of the player base would have expected to be available from the get-go. And one might also say that land value calculation is supposed to be a very vital part of the simulation aspect of the game.

That does give us a rather good picture of the state in which the game was released.
In addition, it does tell us a lot of things about the statements of various Youtubers: "Oh, it does have bugs, but there is clearly a deep simulation underneath!"

Lessons learned:
Don't trust CO with their announcements and advertising.
Don't trust Youtubers when they make comments they cannot immediately prove in their clips.

  • Service Coverage of Healthcare, Education, Police now affects Land Value
  • Telecom doesn't though
  • Reachability of Commercial Services now affects Land Value
  • Stops and Stations of Public Transportation now affect Land Value
  • Noise, Water, Air and Ground Pollution don't affect Land Value
  • Shorelines don't affect Land Value
Those factors only make up the land value info view and pretend to affect the land value, but they don't actually affect gameplay.
 
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A city of 94k on a high end system (that is: i9-14700k/7900x or better, 4090 GTX and 64GB DDR5 RAM at 6400MTs) would disagree that there are noticable performance improvements.
In fact the Simulation Advancements went from 183 to 185. In a 450k+ city the Simulation Advancement went from 44 to 46.

So.. There's not really any performance enhancement so to speak off. It is so insignificant a change that you can't be sure it isn't just some blurp, because you're not running the exact same background processes.
Well this is what I heard often that the improvements are only felt on low end systems. Sad to hear that the high end doesn't profit. You easily get like 50% more out of one core with those cpus than my 8600k, not to speak of I get only 6 cores and no HT.
 
  • Service Coverage of Healthcare, Education, Police now affects Land Value
  • Telecom doesn't though
  • Reachability of Commercial Services now affects Land Value
  • Stops and Stations of Public Transportation now affect Land Value
  • Noise, Water, Air and Ground Pollution don't affect Land Value
  • Shorelines don't affect Land Value
Those factors only make up the land value info view and pretend to affect the land value, but they don't actually affect gameplay.
Air and ground pollution do not affect land value??????? What fantasy world is this?
 
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Air and ground pollution do not affect land value??????? What fantasy world is this?
I agreed with you too soon before I saw it was not an original quote.
They do:
  • Improved Land Value System
    • Service Coverage of Healthcare, Education, Police and Telecom now affects Land Value
    • Reachability of Commercial Services now affects Land Value
    • Stops and Stations of Public Transportation now affect Land Value
    • Noise, Water, Air and Ground Pollution now affect Land Value
    • Shorelines now affects Land Value
    • Added a max limit to Land Value bonus factor
    • Replaced "Building Land Value" Info Mode with "Land Value Source" Info Mode in Land Value Info View
    • "Rent Too High" warning notifications are now highlighted when Land Value Info View is active
    • Added Land Value Tooltip to a cursor which shows the monetary value of the land or building where the building is located when Land Value Info View is active
 
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Air and ground pollution do not affect land value??????? What fantasy world is this?

I agreed with you too soon before I saw it was not an original quote.
They do:
No they don't. Land value is now only affected by services, commercial availability and public transport. Pollution only lowers the land value SHOWN in the info view, not the actual value relevant to simulation. So does telecom and shoreline.
 
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