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Dev Diary #113 - Wonderful Views

Hello!

It was really great reading all your comments and questions last week, lots of fun ideas. This week we will be looking a bit more in depth at the wonder view. Which you can see below.

The wonder view. Please note that art is Work in progress and may change!

Firstly, we have the name of the wonder. This will change dynamically based on where it is built, and what upgrades it has. For example you might build ‘The Cathedral of Stockholm’. Then, after building the Spikes upgrade, this may become ‘The Bloody Cathedral of Stockholm’. We also have a dynamic description that works just like the naming system, but more detailed.

There is also an image of the wonder, which is dynamic to an extent as well. The background depends on where you are in the world (Desert, Jungle, Snow etc) and the depiction of the wonder changes depending on the stage, going from being in construction to highly decorated or even in ruins.


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Now, below this we have the modifier box, where you can find all the modifiers provided by the wonder. Some of these are granted by the wonder itself and some are granted by upgrades, but they are all listed here. These modifiers can either affect the top liege, or the province the wonder is in.


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Below this we have the progress bar, which will show your progress when upgrading to a new stage of your wonder.


Lastly, we have the upgrade view which is split into two tabs, completed, and available. In the ‘completed’ tab you can see a breakdown of the upgrades you have built and their effects, and in the ‘available’ tab you can see all the upgrades you are able to build.

let us know, your questions and comments and we will do our best to answer them!

Also as a note, a lot of people have predicted that the ancient Egyptian Religion will be making a return. I can confirm that the Egyptian Religion will NOT be in this upcoming patch. That doesn’t mean we are against it in the future though….
 
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King Anund said:
The Middle Ages has cooler things that could be introduced into the game than a long dead religion without almost any cultural impact on the people of the time.
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Such as? I mean, the Great Schism, naval battles, cadet branches, and the overhaul/updating of most religions (Eastern Christian churches, Muslims, non-Norse pagans, and practically all heresies) are quite common requests, but are there other notable examples?
 
CaptainPolyp said:
Is there a University kind of wonder ?
I would like my University of Muscat to be a true Wonder: the Muskatonic University... And store my Necronomicon in it.
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Universities are planned =)
 
Based on the art work in this and the previous dev diary, will there be a few different types of architecture for Cathedrals? The prominent tower with spire at the crossing is more typical for English Gothic Cathedrals (Salisbury or Old St Paul's), whereas in for instance French Gothic Cathedrals the West front usually has two towers (like the Notre Dame of Paris or Chartres).
 
Is it possible to tied wonders to specific holdings? For example, if the Theodosian Walls were made Constantinople's wonder, could they then be assigned to the primary holding and add special buildings to that holding? The result would be somewhat similar to the current implementation of Constantinople, with a special wall building that adds more fort level than anywhere else. Alternatively, could Haiga Sophia be assigned to a bishopric holding that is by default held by the Ecumenical Patriarch, which would in turn give special buildings tied to the wonder which give more tax, fort, or garrison to the holding itself? These would be very useful if we want wonders that give bonuses like fort level, specific troop types, troop strength modifiers, and such to one specific holding. Either so that the walls only have to be breached once or so that wonders that modify these things aren't far better in provinces with more holding slots than those without.

Things like revolt risk, supply limit, attrition, prosperity gain, prestige, piety, and other province modifiers do make more sense to be on the wonder itself, since those do not affect specific holdings.
 
Aztecs will get to build aztec style pyramids right? Not just egyptian style? Also you mentioned rome will get the colosseum. Is there a chance that hellenics could use it for its original purpose? Maybe an option to pull a Commodus?

How about natural wonders? Maybe the Matterhorn? Or some eruptable volcanoes? Waterfalls?
 
The current working values for prestige and piety look very low for a 'wonder'. There could probably be a pass on prestige and piety bonuses in general, but here's a few notes from what's in the game at the moment:

Prestige:
  • The proud trait: +0.5 monthly prestige
  • Each barony (including direct vassals): +0.025 monthly prestige
  • Each county (including direct vassals): +0.1 monthly prestige
  • Each duchy (including direct vassals): +0.2 monthly prestige
  • Each kingdom (including direct vassals): +0.8 monthly prestige
  • Each empire: +1.6 monthly prestige
  • Certain Bloodlines: +0.1 monthly prestige
  • Most Artifacts: +0.1 to +1 monthly prestige
  • Dynasty controls religion (landed members only): +2 monthly prestige
  • Dynasty controls holy order (landed members only): +2 monthly prestige
  • Crowned by a prince-bishop: +0.25 monthly prestige
  • Crowned by the pope: +0.5 monthly prestige
  • Each Pilgrim's Inn and Translation House buildings in hospitals: +0.25 monthly prestige
  • Each point of realm diplomacy: +0.01 monthly prestige
Piety:
  • Humble trait: +1 monthly piety
  • Zealous trait: +1 monthly piety
  • Celibate trait: +1 monthly piety
  • Content trait: +0.5 monthly piety
  • Chaste trait: +0.25 monthly piety
  • Lustful trait: -0.25 monthly piety
  • Cynical trait: -0.2 monthly piety
  • Certain Bloodlines: +0.05 to +0.1 monthly piety
  • Many Artifacts: +0.1 to +1 monthly piety
  • Dynasty controls religion (landed members only): +1 monthly piety
  • Dynasty controls holy order (landed members only): +1 monthly piety
  • Crowned by a prince-bishop: +0.25 monthly prestige
  • Crowned by the pope: +0.5 monthly prestige
  • Many temple holding buildings: +0.1 in total per holding early game, +0.25 total per holding mid-game, +0.4 total per holding late game.
  • Each Soup Kitchen, Chapel, and Pilgrim's Inn buildings in hospitals: +0.1 piety each
  • Each personally held temple holding: +0.2 monthly piety
  • Each point of realm learning: +0.02 monthly piety
There are also many other modifiers to provinces and temporary bonuses for completing events like crusades.

The main concern here is that at present, the 'Great Temple' is giving the same amount of piety as a single special temple holding building. That temple holding building costs ~200 gold and also gives +garrison and +levy size. While it's fine for Bloodlines to give fairly minor bonuses, since it's effectively permanent and can apply to a wide number of people, wonders should give much larger bonuses. Especially considering a modest collection of artifacts can give +1 monthly prestige and +0.5 monthly piety and function similarly to how a wonder would. A full set of tier 2 equipment from a smith gives +1.6 monthly prestige, which is fairly easy and cheep for a king to get. A wonder should also be something that's actually of value to a realm and comparable in value to building as to conquering a new kingdom, considering the costs are comparable.


EDIT: 150-200 gold for +0.05 monthly piety is a good baseline for determining how much piety a wonder should give. While it's more like 150-200 gold for 0.25 monthly prestige.

So if the Cathedral wonder's first stage costs ~2000 gold to build, it should give +0.5 monthly piety at a minimum just so it's not strictly worse than spending the same amount of money on temples and hospitals in terms of only piety. It's still worse if piety is the only thing it gives, but that at least works as a baseline minimum.

EDIT2: Thread for discussing prestige and piety rates.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/prestige-and-piety-rates.1154935/
 
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This isn't related to wonders, but will Chronicles ever be fixed? I apologize if they were fixed in holy fury or something, I've been playing an older version for awhile now
 
Can forts be modified using this? I honestly would prefer forts get some love since they were incredibly integral in the middle ages for warfare. I build a fort for 20 gold and they disappear shortly after. I just have these empty holdings in my otherwise filled demense. If they can get an update, either using new mechanics or just filling them out like hospitals that would turn my crank.
 
TheDarkMaster said:
The current working values for prestige and piety look very low for a 'wonder'. There could probably be a pass on prestige and piety bonuses in general, but here's a few notes from what's in the game at the moment
Click to expand...

Nice write up; I'm not a content designer but I will show it to them :)
I do think that it might be the case that the modifiers and their values were just added to show off how we display modifiers though.
Remember that a lot of things (especially values) in the images are WIP.
 
Tuscany said:
While we would love to do this, its unfortunately something we would have to spend some time on programming, so for now atleast it has to be a single wonder per province.
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@ogarrr - Could you, alternatively, mod in a wonder called something like "City of Wonders", and then have individual sites within that as "upgrades"?
 
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