They are in game, as a cadet branch. The Bavandids are descended from them, but had broken off before the Imperial line went extinct iirc.
From wikipedia:
Karen & Rajas of India
- Thread starter Damarrocarion
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
They are in game, as a cadet branch. The Bavandids are descended from them, but had broken off before the Imperial line went extinct iirc.
From wikipedia:
if you bug report this and in it tell the line going to the count in 867 they will fix it up to make it a proper cadet branch
What would the difference be? I didn't know there was a way to have a "proper" cadet branch.
Myself and another guy bug reported it last year, so far nothing has been done though. It is not that high on the list in my opinion but would be a nice little gem if they ever did do something.
It depends on where they would have stationed themselves. If they stayed within the general area of "greater Persia" they may culturally have survived up to 867, after all Iraq was largely Christian up until the 12th century (I think it was 12th).
I'm saying it's feasible, but it is simply speculation on my part. The Bavandids would be a nice compromise candidate to restore Sassanids.
Oh right, the Bavandids don't actually have a line of ancestors going back to the Sassanids. In that case I think Paradox should take a little bit of time to give them a unique CoA, give them history back to Kavadh I and give the Sassanids themselves a similar CoA. That way there's a clear continuity.
Just needs to invent dynasty tree from Kavadh for them there. After all, you can see Sassanid dynasty if you click on history tab of Persian Empire.
If they would turn Bavandids into Sassanids, we might risk a singularity forming from the amount of ragequitted ironman games which aim to restore Sassanid Empire*
*Especially if we would get "Sassanid Sayoshant" steam achievement where requirements would be becoming Sayoshant as Sassanid without swearing fealty to anyone and staying Zoroastrian before becoming emperor.
Last edited:
just gonna say this. The Yabguids were the Yagbuids and they were fixed due to a bugreport. This fix is coming in the ROI patch.
But was this mainly a question of dynasty name? With Bavandids we are talking about merging it with existing historical dynasty (which is in game though) with (likely) unknown family branch.
We reported this whenever it was that The Old Gods came out though. Maybe it just takes some time, I don't know.
It would not neccessarily mean merging them with an existing line. Kawus could be designated as the son of Kavadh but be given the dynastic name of Bavandid. I don't even think that it would be the only other example in game. I found a European version of this already in game but I forget who, where and when it was.
He could even be labeleld as a Mazdak and excommunicated (OK, it is a Catholic concept in game but it de facto happened to him in real life). It is of course a cheeky compromise of sorts.
Can't check it right now but I think Sassanids already have Simurgh as their CoA. Also, According to Wikipedia, Kavadh killed all his siblings, except one who fled to Byzantine empire. So any relation between Bavandids and Sassanids is perhaps bit far fetched.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawus
Yes it is wikipedia but the information does come from this book, I can 100% verify that (the bloody thing is absolutely MASSIVE): http://books.google.de/books?id=I-xtAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y
Bav himself was a grandson of Kawus
Thanks for that. Do we know if Bav had any children?
One things. Can you recommend any books which would shed some light on Karens?
Hmmmmm, that is a tough one indeed. I don't have it near me to check the bibliography in the back but the above book might be a good start for you.
It is considered one of the definitive books on Sassanid Persia. The Karen are definitely mentioned in the book, for sure, but it ends shortly after the Arab conquest. I can have a rummage around and see what else I can find for you, but no guarantees it will be much.
Whether or not Bav existed and had children is open to question. The author of the above book believes that in reality, Bav is an amalgamation of several people from the late Sassanid period. The problem was the collapse was just so sudden a lot of the history survived in only a jumbled form.
EDIT: A Sassanid family tree lists a "Shapour" as a son of Bav with Vistahm and Vinduyih as grandsons. Who Bav's own father was is harder to trace.
Last edited:
Btw, I have examined the new screenshots and my initial assumption was wrong. De-jure Khiva is now four duchies, each with 4 counties, so instead of the old 3/9, Khiva is now whopping 4/16 in size, which definitely alters the dynamics of Karen game a lot, as you can no longer become a king, even if you win one holy war initially. On the other hand, Samanids have one country from Turkestan, possibly leading to at least one tengri attack on Samanids.
I will edit the first message as result.
I will edit the first message as result.
Last edited:
The Bavandids seemed like they were actually easier than the Karens, IMO, because of North Korea mode using the holding rich provinces to the south of them. In fact, my first truly successful Zoroastrian game was doing this. Now I'm wondering how playable they'll be, with the changes to NK mode, since most strategies seemed to depend on that. You can't really run towards the Steppe or India as them like the Karens can. :laugh:
In twitch they said they want to encourage Muslim expansion towards Indian subcontinent and historically Saffarids did expand toward there a bit. So it might be that as Bavandid, you might have some time before Saffarids come knocking at your door (instead of the couple of years it takes for Tahirid to collapse). Plus we do not know how AI will function since previously Saffarid AI priority has been to get Persia as fast as they can. However, now they can create Baluchistan (kingdom) immediately and whether they keep going towards Baghdad right away or conquer Afghanistan, remains to be seen.
I did run few ToG games where I removed Saffarid free troops and resultant game play always became more interesting as they were still strong but not steamroll strong.
Of course, you could try swearing fealty to Karens while grabbing the couple of right provinces from Alawids. Bear in mind one thing. Tabaristan appears to be 4 provinces now, so Bavandid are not able to usurp themselves a duchy right after gaining independence as they only control 50% of it, not 51% (Karen and Alawid both having 1). This will certainly make things bit more complicated for them I assume. Of course they can still go for Derbent most likely but that puts them between Georgia and Khazaria
Last edited:
Bavandids already have unique CoA, which looks similar to the Persian empire and zoroastrian "church" CoA. My guess it's the devs way to show them (Bavands) as kind of legitimate heirs of the Sassanids. Or maybe it's just a coincidence.