Europa Universalis IV Developer Diary 9 - It's a rich man's world...

[Registered]

what? peru! that incorrect as panama was were all the south american andeas and pacific coeast goods were sent before sending them to spain, why do you think the portobelo fair was the richest of all latin america an targeted so much by pirates!, all the expeditions to peru and argentina departed fom panama too!, even francisco pizarro conqueror of peru was sent first to pacify indians in the middle of panama before going to peru(further more it was in panama that spain learned about the existant of peru and its abundance in gold)( and let me add he had a bigger force for this task than for his expedition to peru and he failed miserably at it by the way) i really hope PI get this right as they always screw panama territory!

He's talking about the ships going west, across the pacific, those left from Acapulco, in what is now Mexico.
Also, relax.

linking up somewhere in the Far East, perhaps around China, Japan, or the Philippines. That's what the Spanish did during this era

Historically the American gold that went across the pacific arrived first in Manilla and spread across (south-)east Asia from there. But i would hope that the trading patterns would depend on colonisation patterns and not be hardcoded.

 

[Jia Xu]

I wonder if the system will be used for the Muslim slave trade at all. Slavery was a big deal in the Muslim world during this time, and I always found it kind of weird that the only slave trade that exists in PI games is the Atlantic-African slave trade, with the exception of EU:Rome.

 

[Styrbiorn]

I wonder if the system will be used for the Muslim slave trade at all. Slavery was a big deal in the Muslim world during this time, and I always found it kind of weird that the only slave trade that exists in PI games is the Atlantic-African slave trade, with the exception of EU:Rome.

One screen showed a trade route going from the Maghrib into Sahara, from the looks of it to Timbuktu. That'd be one good part of the slave trade, the other going through Kanem and along the East African coast. I don't know how the access to slave markets could be modelled though.

 

[Macs]

While trade routes and nodes are fixed, I wonder if the direction of trade along the routes is fixed as well? You can obviously steer, but does that only mean how much wares/money goes along a certain path or can you actually turn it around?

In the screenshots Antwerp only had routes with trade incoming, which gives the owner ample possibilities to steer the trade along the routes to maximize his income from owning lands in the Antwerp node. But I wonder if it is possible for another power, which is more powerful in steering to, basically, make the trade flow from Antwerp to, say, the Frankfurt node, instead of the other way around? Or is Antwerp basically doomed to be a black hole of trade and you can modify how much is sucked into it.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Historically the American gold that went across the pacific arrived first in Manilla and spread across (south-)east Asia from there. But i would hope that the trading patterns would depend on colonisation patterns and not be hardcoded.

Trade in the pacific is almost entirely dictated by wind. The colonisation of Manilla was pretty much inevitable. I'd rather see the AI smart enough to take the Philippines and there be an incentive to do so than be allowed to build a base anywhere and have it equally effective just to give 'choice'.

 

[alvaro]

Trade in the pacific is almost entirely dictated by wind. The colonisation of Manilla was pretty much inevitable. I'd rather see the AI smart enough to take the Philippines and there be an incentive to do so than be allowed to build a base anywhere and have it equally effective just to give 'choice'.

that's another something. For my experience, I have never seen Spain trying to colonize the Philippines.
I think I should wait to comment on this, though, until pdx reveals what colonization is going to be about.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Trade in the pacific is almost entirely dictated by wind. The colonisation of Manilla was pretty much inevitable. I'd rather see the AI smart enough to take the Philippines and there be an incentive to do so than be allowed to build a base anywhere and have it equally effective just to give 'choice'.

Also Guam.
Rewarding nations for developing a trade empire along actual trade routes, as opposed to selectively conquering and merchant-spamming spurious 'centres of trade' (a concept that goes all the way back to the EU board game and should have been left there) is by far the most exciting thing announced yet IMO. I just pray a) it works as conceived and b) the AI knows how to use it.

 

[Emre Yigit]

Now, I'm no expert in the value of trade in the Renaissance, but I would have guessed that one of the most lucrative initial international routes would be India > Arabia > Venice & Genoa (which would, say, be represented as nodes).

I've also read most of the posts (skipped the last two pages), but what happens, when, say the Portuguese open up another route? Does the India > Portugal route begin to skim off the trade?

 

[Baneslave]

I've also read most of the posts (skipped the last two pages), but what happens, when, say the Portuguese open up another route? Does the India > Portugal route begin to skim off the trade?

Portugal, and other European nations, will start diverting the trade from the land based route to sea based route.

So more value will move to this route and more nations will start trading on that route, etc.

 

[Emre Yigit]

OK, thanks. It will be interesting to see in practice.

 

[WolfSnakeCaffer]

While it looks cool I have 2 big concerns.

1. During this time period countries like Japan and China started to become more and more isolationist (in real life, of course I support initiatives that allow a country that was historically isolationist have an interventionist ruler (player) steer them from that path), I'm concerned with if the trade starts in China, then China will automatically have a trade advantage that they didn't historically have. (Also why not have the trade start in India, the place that historically traded far more with the Europeans during this time and many discoveries came from this trade route (most notable is Columbus trying to convince Isabella that its possible to sail from Spain to India and we all know where he ended up)
2. The relationship between technology and trade. This one I will discuss more on DD 11 since I think complaining about technology would be more appropriate there.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

While it looks cool I have 2 big concerns.

1. During this time period countries like Japan and China started to become more and more isolationist (in real life, of course I support initiatives that allow a country that was historically isolationist have an interventionist ruler (player) steer them from that path), I'm concerned with if the trade starts in China, then China will automatically have a trade advantage that they didn't historically have. (Also why not have the trade start in India, the place that historically traded far more with the Europeans during this time and many discoveries came from this trade route (most notable is Columbus trying to convince Isabella that its possible to sail from Spain to India and we all know where he ended up)
2. The relationship between technology and trade. This one I will discuss more on DD 11 since I think complaining about technology would be more appropriate there.

I expect China to have some mighty trade nerf built into its default form of government. Although even with their disdain for trade they did manage to accumulate a hell of a lot of bullion just by controlling the means of production.

 

[Sun_Wu]

I expect China to have some mighty trade nerf built into its default form of government. Although even with their disdain for trade they did manage to accumulate a hell of a lot of bullion just by controlling the means of production.

Merchants were generally looked down upon because they did not produce anything, merely redistributed it.

 

[Eldar]

My question is about trade war. Will it be possible to place a merchant in some node to transfert flow of trade in a direction that is not very profitable for us, just to annoy some countries?

 

[Gunnarr]

Merchants were generally looked down upon because they did not produce anything, merely redistributed it.

why is that!?

someone has to redistribute it!!! how else will it get around?!

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

why is that!?

someone has to redistribute it!!! how else will it get around?!

Merchants do nothing to provide wealth to the nation, they merely move it around. There is no reason to hold someone who merely moves wealth around in high esteem, especially as they can be seem as a parasite on the wealth producers, and those who direct the wealth producers, and protect them. They don't even take low value items (crushed plants and rocks, thin sheets of wood, clay soils) and turn them into high value items (paintings, statues, etc).

I am not saying this is a good view, or a bad view, but it is a view that was held at various times in various places.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Is the Sound Dues going to be very profitable? In history they were a really important income for the Danish king and in practice it wasn't possible to avoid them; only something like a couple of Dutch ships managed to avoid the cannons. It was also very difficult to pay less than you had to, since the king had the right to buy the cargo if he wanted to; this ment that a merchant risked losing a lot of money, if he told the customs officer that his cargo was less worth than it was, since the king would pay what the merchant said the cargo was worth. Hopefully Denmark is going to get some extra trading power to represent the dues.

 

[Sun_Wu]

Is the Sound Dues going to be very profitable? In history they were a really important income for the Danish king and in practice it wasn't possible to avoid them; only something like a couple of Dutch ships managed to avoid the cannons. It was also very difficult to pay less than you had to, since the king had the right to buy the cargo if he wanted to; this ment that a merchant risked losing a lot of money, if he told the customs officer that his cargo was less worth than it was, since the king would pay what the merchant said the cargo was worth. Hopefully Denmark is going to get some extra trading power to represent the dues.

I am sure with the new trade system the sound toll, the Bosporus toll, the straits of Gibraltar, the straits of Hormuz, the Red Sea and others will become much more valuable.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I am sure with the new trade system the sound toll, the Bosporus toll, the straits of Gibraltar, the straits of Hormuz, the Red Sea and others will become much more valuable.

If it works like it should those points will become naturally valuable and we can dispense with the need for flags.

 

[Registered]

If it works like it should those points will become naturally valuable and we can dispense with the need for flags.

Apart from Constantinople/Istanbul it wasn't the ports that were valuable though, ships didn't need to dock to pay the toll.