The Historic Inevitabilty of Epic Failure

[Malurous]

You certainly have been quick in Asia, already that far and with room for one more Holy War with everyone... Nice timing with Cabinet as well, what, 10+ years ahead of time? That's a couple of BB points won right there.

 

[sprites]

So Milan isn't a rival anymore?
The two chinese provinces could have defected to Ming/Qin and you'd holywar them before 1650 ...
After that date , you have the pagans to mop up , but will you go the imperialism route for the ~70 years before revolution and counter?
And I did not know revocking reforms cost 5 infamy!

 

[unmerged(58610)]

Good wars. Short too. You're pretty darned good at that. neatly arranged to have a final You're not bothered about getting Japan to form, just taking what you want off them.

I didn't know revoking a reform costs 5 BB -too busy being Emperor to worry about that. Okay I get that you know what you're going to do. You want to weaken Bohemia and leave Kosovo alone until after 1650 and hit it with the Imperialism CB . You must want Milan as the final power. I'm sure you'll do fine with it. I'm not convinced Bohemia will remain Emperor, if you weaken Bohemia too much.

 

[Arakhor]

Very impressive work, as usual, PrawnStar. I always look forward to your updates!

 

[Aminti]

Cabinet 8 years ahead of time - that's good, though I would've thought it'd be 10 years. Good progress and I think you made the right choice for Brunei in taking a base on their main island. You should take 7, possibly 6 if the out of shot provinces are expensive or if there are only 8 total provinces of Brunei that you don't have a core on, provinces off them in the next war. Add 6 for the next round of Japan, 2 for Mali (I think you knocked their core off?) and 3 for Manchu. That's 17 BB (6 province estimate for Brunei) or about 5 years and a couple of months worth of BB. You have 11, which means your BB should be set for the coming 9 years and a couple of months, give or take. Add another 8 months per OPM (Delhi / Punjab) that you decide to take out and that means you're ready to start raiding the pagans soon around 1654-1655-ish. You could even raid them now and see if you can't cash in on one of them.

Avignon is a bit of a pain. Do they have entanglements? If not: It's probably straight up taking them out with the Imperialism CB way, way, way down the road (they're low on priority) unless you're lucky enough to get a Subjugate mission, but those are quite rare when you want to have them...

 

[unmerged(81244)]

Good going, always nice to read your updates.

Aminitis comment made me wonder. What do you do in regards to missions Do you try to complete them if possible, or do you cancel all that is not very good? Do you always cancel during war, or do you consider that to be cheasy?

 

[vasziljevics]

am I the only one who roots for Bohemia?

I mean... PrawnStar makes this game looking so easy

 

[Dauth]

An interesting HRE point I only discovered recently is that its easiest to disband the HRE when its no longer elective. You don't have to deal with the electors, instead all you have to do is occupy the capital of the Emperor. With that out of the way its then just fighting the manpower the Bohemians have acquired, which will be much less. How many reforms have been passed?

 

[Ricardo Rolo]

You really need to get that Swiss core ASAP ... after you do that, every time you want to get a core out of Milan, you just have to march to Lombardia from there , assault and peace out

So we are in the final burns of the holy war CB ... I assume you are going to war everyone you can using it except the chinese now OPM. So the critical junctures for that would be Brunei ( I would definitely take Johor and Malacca atleast, even if to allow to walk to Sumatra ... the rest would be done to create the most ragged possible borders, to maximize the boundary disputes ) and Japan, to disband the shogunate or atleast to prepare it as much as possible ( it would be nice to disband it and then use the Holy war CB ASAP on the ex-daimyos ... not sure if that is even possible without the truce break stab hit , being this Japan :/ ).

After that ... well, I assume that you will bring civilization to the Africans and the Americans in the form of bullets, but I'm worried that you will be forced to be too quiet in Europe, without the Colonialist CB to get a excuse to wreck havoc ( well, you do have the cores as excuse for Milan and Bohemia ( the game really wants you to eat Bohemia one core at the time , doesn't it ? ) , but how to deal with the German colonisers , like the Hansa? ). Sure the Imperialism CB will not take that long ( BTW, do you have a ETA on that ? ) , but you will probably need to be creative to avoid your infamy to go to 0 before that ( the horror ) ...

 

[Aminti]

An interesting HRE point I only discovered recently is that its easiest to disband the HRE when its no longer elective. You don't have to deal with the electors, instead all you have to do is occupy the capital of the Emperor. With that out of the way its then just fighting the manpower the Bohemians have acquired, which will be much less. How many reforms have been passed?

Bohemia has been stuck on 5 reforms for ages, if I recall correctly, thanks to Nomad IA farming and Prawnstar making all the Nomads border him alone on that front. Dismantling the HRE is going to be a while, though, as he'll have to be able to face Milan + Bohemia + a horde of German minors. There's simply no chance that Milan hasn't guaranteed one of the six other electors (Bohemia is the seventh), or warned Prawnstar, and their borders are pretty crazy. Even if they don't do either of those, the AI will jump if it detects a possible angle of attack, and being entangled with 3/4th of the HRE already tends to be a good reason for the AI to go and jump on the dogpile.

I wonder who the electors are, though. It looks to be the standard seven, possibly Mainz out if they drew the Papal States lot (which'd make the Pope an elector instead of them... I think the Pope's in Osnabruck though, but how it got there, I've no clue - Bremen?). I'm fairly sure I can see Brandenburg, Saxony, Trier, Cologne, Bohemia (no kidding!) and Palpatine, err, Palatinate living, and someone getting kicked out of electorship is rare, as these are the requirements:

(1) having poor relations (less than 0) with the emperor and poor relations with a neighbouring country which is an elector
(2) having poor relations (less than 0) with the emperor and a high badboy (greater than 10)

Only Brandenburg possibly qualifies for the second part, and the first part is possible, but still rare.

 

[unmerged(58610)]

I think post 1650, Prawnstar will focus on swallowing the natives and beginning to colonize the provinces uncovered. The German colonisers tend not to take Quest. Friesland and Burgubndy may 12 BB is a hefty price though for something that may not happen -taking Friesland and Gelre. There is one state that has already taken Quest -Novgorod -and that's currently part of Milan. If Bohemia beats themn in a war, Novogorod could be recreated. Taking the offending provinces off Milan would cost another 12 BB. Of course Prawnstar's tactic of weakening Bohemia means that it is unlikely that Milan would lose such a war. Course, Prawnstar, now with cabinet, may find himself running out of BB whilst waiting for truces to expire with Holy War targets and look to readjust borders pre-1650. When the natives aren't being taken, i'd expect Prawnstar to finish off whatever was left over from the Holy Wars. The timing of the switch to republican dicatorship is dependent on how long the DIP 8 ruler lasts and what his replacement looks like.

After the defeat England visited upon Bohemia, I'd have expected Milan to wade in on Bohemia

 

[PrawnStar]

FEEDBACK​

Tudyboss - Thanks, Japan wil get another kicking and Brunei will lose ground but the two cores in IndoChina complicate targetting.

The Arch Mede - Fair point, if it can be Holy Warred it will be Holy Warrred. I still doubt I can paint the world red, 0 infamy at 1800 is a no but total Catholicism is very possible

Taylor - Bohemia storms a dozen or so provinces in western Russia - I have hundreds of provinces so the war score is low. I tend to sit back and try to build up a lot of war score through battles fought in my territory. I usually get positive war score while Bohemia's war exhaustion climbs rapidly. At that point a quick march on Prague generally enlightens

homy_dog34 - Me to, stats at the end of the next update see what you think.

dragonizer - Absolutely, multiple consolidators in Europe would be good but if no one else does it I will

Barsoom - I think I've made a bit of a mess of Japan since I'm also a bit hazy on how those mechanics work. Guyenne is a vassal and will be diploannexed quite soon - in DW you take a stab hit not a centralisation hit (thankfully!). Colonisation in the round up at 1650.

As to this: "Chinese OPMs, I knew Khorasan, I was a friend of Khorasan, and you're no Khorasan!"

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

If you're going to be remembered for saying one thing then Lloyd Bentsen picked a gem.

Malurous - I had Gov't tech 30 in my mind as 1650 but apparently it should be a bit earlier - that said with my empire I'm delighted I got there in advance.

sprites - I'm thinking of going Imperialism soon (say 1655) so I can start on Europe - there's a lot of work to be done there and I doubt waiting for R/CR is the right answer.

Chief Ragusa - Despite the evidence to the contary from my Iroquois game I prefer short wars - identify the problem, solve it and move on. If I break Bohemian power and someone else becomes Emperor that's OK I'll just break them as well - hopefully Burgundy will get the jump on Milan at that point.

Arakhor - Thanks.

Aminti - That's pretty much how the final Holy War round plays out. I'm going to try and leave Avignon and hope something happens - in my test game the Ottomans annexed Avignon and I got it for 1BB with Holy War but Guyenne sat as a surrounded OPM with no diplomatic entanglements for 300 years - so I can just hope something comes up.

Gibskov - I pretty much ignore missions after the country specific ones have gone - there are good ones sometimes and I'll take advantage but quite often I even forget to cancel stuff I don't want.

vasziljevics - It looks like it's just you

An interesting HRE point I only discovered recently is that its easiest to disband the HRE when its no longer elective. You don't have to deal with the electors, instead all you have to do is occupy the capital of the Emperor. With that out of the way its then just fighting the manpower the Bohemians have acquired, which will be much less. How many reforms have been passed?

Now that is interesting and probably a tip a lot of us hadn't realised. Bohemia are one reform short but IA is 39...

Ricardo Rolo - Exactly, bordering an enemy capital is just so convenient. I can switch to Republican Dictatorship for Imperalism CB as soon as I want (it's Gov't 29) but Admin Republic is superior while Holy War is available. I'll be hitting Europe pretty soon using Imperialism - the rest of the world will just fit in the gaps between wars with the Emperor.

Aminti - Dismantling the Empire will require massive and prolonged violence. Electors are; Ansbach (Admin Republic!), Bohemia, Brandenburg (Bohemian vassal), Palatinate (Burgundian vassal), Pommerania (Bohemian vassal), Styria and the Papal States (in Mainz). Borders are crazy enough that attacking Milan triggers warnings all over the place

Chief Ragusa - I was thinking along those lines but I suspect I should really start to push hard into Europe otherwise I won't have enough time.

 

[PrawnStar]

CHAPTER FORTY ONE​

Nomad games - March 1646

Milan and Bohemia are at war…

War with Milan (and quite a few others)

Burgundy is swiftly removed from the war - storm their COT in Aachen and pay them 25 ducats. No, not much fun but it does remove over 50,000 soldiers from the enemy coalition. By October Milan is doing it’s usual ‘difficult’ thing. At +42 war score I can stab hit. I’m still on the defensive on my side of the Alps killing a lot of troops while I overrun the Balkan territory.

Peace with Milan - January 1647

Two cores reclaimed, back to Holy Warring as BB is now 4.78 / 23.00 falling at 3.20 a year. Kosovo was left in Milanese hands

In June Holy War DOWs go in against Manchu (three provinces) and OPMs Delhi and Punjab. With no meaningful resistance apart from Delhi’s level 2 fort beating back the first assault the wars are over by the end of the year. I’ve been running BB down very low before making peace in the hope of a Boundary Dispute - and I get one I Japan. Not sure what I can do with this…

June 1648 and BB spikes from 0.32 / 23.00 to 7.32 / 23.00 as Delhi, Manchu and Punjab are all annexed.

There’s not much left to Holy War… But there are some things so war with Japan!

As January 1649 starts time for the last two Holy War DOWs, Brunei and Mali. Later in the month the Shogunate is disbanded.

Mali is annexed in April 1649

BB is 6.81 / 23.00 falling at 3.10 a year.

Peace with Japan - June 1649

Most annoyingly I can’t absorb the Green OPM, never mind. BB is now 14.32 / 23.00 falling at 2.90 a year. I might have to wait make peace with Brunei.

Despite the spike in BB the boundary disputes keep coming.

And then it’s 1650.

Before the 1650 round up let’s just look at what’s left out there where the Holy War CB would be the optimum choice.

• ‘Japan’ - 12 provinces split between OPM Japan, an OPM daimyo and two 5 province Daimyos - one of those provinces is a core.
• 
  
• Brunei - 13 provinces, 2 are cores and 7 can be taken in using Holy War in the peace deal I’m waiting to make.
• 
  
• Qin - an OPM bordering a five province nomad faction.

So that’s fifteen provinces that could have been Holy Warred I’ll have to use a different CB on. Not bad and it’ll be even better when I work out what to do with Japan.

Unclaimed cores are:

Alicante (Aragon)
Albania (Milan)
Balkh (Timurids)
Chikuzen (Minamoto)
Ferghana (Timurids)
Khorat (Brunei)
Provence (Aquileia)
Vijaya (Brunei)
Zheteru (Kazakh)

 

[diegoami]

I wasn't aware that you could squeeze that much out of the Holy war CB. Thank you for having the endurance to prove that.

 

[homy_dog34]

I think that you did an excellent job managing the holy wars.
Now, some careful management of your BB is in order.

 

[Ricardo Rolo]

"Disbaned" ????? Given that the word is well written in the pop up title ...

Well, now with the Shogunate disbanded, you can use whatever CB you want with the daimyos. It would be wonderful if you could still use Holy war on them separately, though ... anyway they should still have decent relations with each other, it is not unlikely that they will start wedding each other and the usual mess, so they might come to help if you only DOW one.

On Europe ... how feasible is to get the Provence core without major HRE complications ? That would be a nice small splendid war to do, as well as the Aragon one. Better to grab those cores and prepare for the Imperialism onslaught. It is highly expectable that your days with Dip 8+ rulers are soon to be over, though so no more core avalanches ....

EDIT: Could you had DoWed Qin and sit on top of them for a defection? Ok , it would be like waiting for a perfect storm with the median time for a defection to occur, but if IIRC that province has no Chinese culture ...

 

[Aminti]

Better go help the Nomads because they look like they might break to rebels soon in that picture you posted of them. BB situation is good - including the Brunei provinces you should max at around 20 BB, which means you're hitting 0 in late 1656. You could switch to Rep. Dictatorship by then, but I suspect you're going to start off by warring into Africa to get rid of the Tropical provinces of Mutapa / Swahili while you have a high admin ruler, plus to remove any chance of Brunei being a spoilsport. This should give you another year or so to get your troop concentration in Europe up and possibly push to land 28 for the next lot of infantry upgrades, if you, as I suspect, don't have them already. Likewise, I think it's a similarly good idea to focus on getting Milan out of Scandinavia if you get another chance at warring them without Bohemia - again because you've got excellent WE reduction now. The loss of those provinces might not hurt Milan economically, but it'll mean less chance of WE going up too much in a later war. I recall Norwegian forts giving you a lot of trouble in other campaigns. An additional advantage is that you have to set less magistrates aside for removing provinces from the empire, which boosts the rate at which you are able to institute the Republican* Mail.

Your absolute first priority would have to be kicking Burgundy out of my home province of Gelre, I feel, but I might be a wee bit biased there. Plus there's a truce in there.

*Royal Mail wouldn't work with you being a Republican Dictatorship shortly, now would it?

 

[Arakhor]

Holy War, what is it good for? Absolutely everything!

 

[Leonoob]

Assuming you wait until peace with Brunei will give you 15 BB, peace with them will come at around October-November 1651. If this was my save (haha like I'd even get past 1450), I would reclaim cores for a while until my BB dropped to ~6 or 7, then chuck men at Mutapa or Kongo with colonial conquest CB - I assume at least one of them is still there. I would suggest going off to the Americas afterwards, but there's only enough native provinces there to keep you tided over on BB for 20 years or so, which doesn't bring you a lot closer to Rev and Counter-Rev, which is, of course, the European edition of Holy War - average year is 1780, you should probably get it around 1770 or perhaps a bit earlier, but I'd expect 1760 to be the absolute earliest. In any case, that's over 100 years for BB burn, and at an average burn rate of, let's say, 2.95, that's about 305 BB you'll have to burn.

You can get about 60 from Colonial conquest I think (I'm not really sure how much - just a wild stab in the dark really), which leaves 245, all of which will have to be done with 2-BB/province casus bellis - Cleansing of Heresy and Imperialism, assuming you convert to absolute monarchy for imperialism. Of course, switching to absolute monarchy will mean you have significantly less BB to burn, but still a minimum of about 250, even with a string of 3-dip kings. So that's 125-150 European and Asian provinces taken before you even get Rev and Counter-rev. After rev and counter rev, assuming you get it at 1770, you'll have 50 years to use it. Assuming 3.00BB/year burn rate, that's another 150 provinces taken before the time runs out. So, all in all, you have BB to take down 275-300 provinces in Europe and Asia before the game ends, not counting cores, assuming all the numbers in this post are correct, which is extraordinarily unlikely. In any case, it's a rough guideline. I'm sure someone correct this anyway.

 

[unmerged(471650)]

Great job with the holy wars.
If you can get a finger of prov in Scandinavia it may produce BD's.:unsure:
Keep pluging away you will get their.