The Historic Inevitabilty of Epic Failure

[Malurous]

Ah, so the plan re: Ming comes together. Very nice, here's hoping the Chinese capitals get a horde treatment to save even more BB.

Any chance of listing any unclaimed cores in the 1650 update?

Malurous - I'm not sure about your maths.

Oops - time to switch the part of my brain that realizes you can annex non-OPMs these days back on. :rofl: I can't believe myself sometimes...

When yo udo take on Milan for your cores, you may have to bitethe bullet andtake Kosovo too.
This war with Bohemia provides opportunity to fight Milan for cores as well. Your BB is quite high at the moment and loading an extra 4 on it may be beyond what you want -especially as you burn rate is under 2.

Taking the extra province at full price is hardly worth it. The worst that can happen when taking Albania but leaving Kosovo is an OPM in the latter, and said OPM definitely wouldn't cost more than the 4 BB to conquer. There's simply nothing to gain by taking Kosovo at 4.

However, it is up for debate whether or not Albania is worth taking in a way that leaves such a risky disconnected province.

 

[unmerged(58610)]

Taking the extra province at full price is hardly worth it. The worst that can happen when taking Albania but leaving Kosovo is an OPM in the latter, and said OPM definitely wouldn't cost more than the 4 BB to conquer. There's simply nothing to gain by taking Kosovo at 4.

It's always possible that there would be a boundary dispute in which case it would cost 0BB. if it's taken as a province for the Imperialism CB it's 2BB. Otherwise, it's 4BB if it defects. So you're right, taking Kosovo for 4 BB pre-1650 is not worth it.

 

[Leonoob]

It's always possible that there would be a boundary dispute in which case it would cost 0BB. if it's taken as a province for the Imperialism CB it's 2BB. Otherwise, it's 4BB if it defects. So you're right, taking Kosovo for 4 BB pre-1650 is not worth it.

Relying on boundary disputes is never a good idea, there are so many other provinces that it could fire on, and it doesn't fire too often anyway.

 

[Barsoom]

Relying on boundary disputes is never a good idea, there are so many other provinces that it could fire on, and it doesn't fire too often anyway.

He isn't, there's a second and a third sentence.

Chief Ragusa's original point is still valid, it would be annoying if an OPM Kosovo forced PrawnStar to pay BB for annexation. Taking Kosovo at full cost (on a Reconquest CB for the other provinces) doesn't solve it, as Malorous pointed out. But it would still be advisable to get rid of that isolated province at the earliest opportunity or else not create an enclave there. Remember that the Imperialism CB won't be available immediately after 1650. (It's better to stick with elected rulers for as long as possible to maximize DIP values, therefore to take on Colonial CB targets first.) If PrawnStar takes those other provinces now, Kosovo will be isolated for a couple of decades at least. My solution would probably be to postpone taking Albania, there's no hurry, the border dispute won't go away quickly. If Milan is not in Bohemia's coalition, I probably wouldn't start a war for just one core (Serbia) which will also last a while.

I know, I advised different in my previous post, but I'll follow the Chief's laudable example and change my mind when there's a good reason for it.

 

[Ricardo Rolo]

Not having the save it is hard to tell how the core structure in the area at this point, but doesn't Serbia have cores in Kosovo and Serbia proper at game start? That said it should be possible to release or revolt engineer a Serbia from Milan , consisting in Serbia and Kosovo ... revolting it would be even easy after taking Albania. Thus we have a DPM instead of a OPM

Obviously the best would be a core in Kosovo, but this is a Paradox game and things never go the player's way

 

[PrawnStar]

My thoughts on the Kosovo question. I'm going to leave it until the Imperialism CB and then take it to isolate Serbia. That way the isolated province is the one I have a core on and the net effect will be I can take two provinces for two BB. Milan is a low priority target. Bohemia will be first as I'd like to eliminate the Emperor as a significant factor. Milan is looking like the end game boss - a recurring problem for me

 

[blsteen]

Ah...you should be able to handle Bohemia and you better get used to the DOW's from them.
Nice moves with Japan and Brunei. How's the replacement of the Far Eastern Fleet going? Up to taking on the mighty Brunei navy..which is probably suffering from cashflow problems as you steadily strip away its provinces.

 

[unmerged(58610)]

Albania has a core on Kosovo, too. That would "work", as well. The ruler has a DIP 8 and will generate boundary disputes. Kosovo is as liklely as any other province to get that. The Imperialism CB offers the cheapest other option. The current ruler may last as long as his previous two high DIP rulers.

Weakening Bohemia too much will cuase it to lose the position to Milan. The balance of power dicates that you weaken Milan as much as Bohemia. Milan probably guarantees Acquilea, which means fighting Milan for that core.

 

[Hatkah]

I really can't see Milan being a problem or anyone else in europe. Since once the holy wars are over most of your troops, apart from anti-rebel stacks, will be in europe you could probably swarm the entire empire pretty easily. Also to consider is that from now on as you gain cores and build more lvl6 trade buildings your economy is going to boom your tech will rocket and you will be able to field a HUGE army in europe.

 

[Barsoom]

How to handle Bohemia, or Milan, or any other European country is not about the threat they might pose. They can be an annoyance, but PrawnStar has already beat them and with his new economic buildings, he'll be even stronger now. Time is even running short for anyone to interfere with his American plans; the coasts are already being settled and it's only about 10 years before the native powers get eaten.

The real issue is how to make those European states eat each other. At first, the idea was to let the HRE form but that didn't happen and it looks increasingly unlikely that it will. Worse, Bohemia did get the reform enacted that stops internal wars, so nothing gets consolidated. If all the current minors remain in existence, annexation costs will drive BB through the roof. That's what needs to be dealt with and that's why the emperor is the first target in Europe. Dismantling the empire is the next best option. My guess is he's not going to weaken the emperor, he's going to abolish the office.

 

[unmerged(58610)]

Beat the Emperor severely enough and you can force a recovation of the last imperial reform. So it is possible to get the ban on internal wars lifted in the HRE.

 

[PrawnStar]

FEEDBACK​

Mico94 - Let's hope not.

Ricardo Rolo - Yes, overall I'm a long way ahead of expectations in the Far East - very pleased about how all that is working out.

Aminti - You've hit the nail on the head - I'm not really geared up for widespread warfare in Europe - less than 200,000 in theatre. I'm hoping the Chinese OPMs fall to the nomads - colonist rate is 4.55 right now and I've got a 5* colonial growth advisor as well.

Dauth - I pretty much ignore the remaining hordes - I need the colonists (and cost of supporting the colonies) for the Americas. OPMs Ming and Qin might get eaten by them, fingers crossed.

Franconian - The Holy War side of things is going well and the tech strategy looks good. Too early to say if I've waited too long to colonise.

sprites - It'll be more than two wars for Japan - and don't worry I won't forget anywhere Aquiliea is a Milanese vassal and part of the Empire - not an easy war for a core that locks OPM Republic Avignon inside my territory...

dragonizer - Ming still lives, a bit smaller but still alive

Barsoom - I agre normally releasing nations doesn't help that much but this was a sensible target - you're right about not abusing Holy War - there's a global infidel shortage.

homy_dog34 - I plan on getting a province on Borneo so I can easily position troops - I don't plan around Boundary Disputes as it's too random so I'll just hit Brunei very hard with Holy War and see what's left.

Chief Ragusa - I'm getting a feeling I'm doing Japan 'wrong' - I storm OPM Japan the war leader for auto 100 war score then grab the provinces I want and peace out. I haven't bothered taking all the Daimyo capitals. Brunei won't need any more trickery just beating up

Malurous - Unclaimed cores? Yes I can list - it's not very exciting, The idea for Ming and Qin is certainly the Horde treatment although that doesn't always work out too well - Khorasan anyone...


Chief Ragusa, Malurous, Leonoob, Barsoom & Ricardo Rolo - Good discussion aroud Kosovo, I've already commented but I'm sure the debate is informative for other readers.

My thoughts on the Kosovo question. I'm going to leave it until the Imperialism CB and then take it to isolate Serbia. That way the isolated province is the one I have a core on and the net effect will be I can take two provinces for two BB. Milan is a low priority target. Bohemia will be first as I'd like to eliminate the Emperor as a significant factor. Milan is looking like the end game boss - a recurring problem for me

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GUY HE KNOWS NOTHING!

blsteen- Far Eastern fleet, that's going OK and I'm not keen on being DOWed - I want to chose the CB and hence province cost.

Hatkah - Bohemia (+ minors) has as many troops as me but all in theatre mine aren't. I've less than 100,00 in Eastern Europe so it's not easy. They've also got slightly higher tech, five military NIs and a fantastic manpower pool. In the next few decades that will change as I build up in Europe.

How to handle Bohemia, or Milan, or any other European country is not about the threat they might pose. They can be an annoyance, but PrawnStar has already beat them and with his new economic buildings, he'll be even stronger now. Time is even running short for anyone to interfere with his American plans; the coasts are already being settled and it's only about 10 years before the native powers get eaten.

The real issue is how to make those European states eat each other. At first, the idea was to let the HRE form but that didn't happen and it looks increasingly unlikely that it will. Worse, Bohemia did get the reform enacted that stops internal wars, so nothing gets consolidated. If all the current minors remain in existence, annexation costs will drive BB through the roof. That's what needs to be dealt with and that's why the emperor is the first target in Europe. Dismantling the empire is the next best option. My guess is he's not going to weaken the emperor, he's going to abolish the office.

Good analysis, in essence the later part of the seventeenth century will involve ripping Bohemia into shreds. Milan can wait - it's doing well consolidating lots of other stuff in Europe. The colonisation push isn't that quick though

Chief Ragusa - Revoking reforms costs 5BB

 

[PrawnStar]

CHAPTER FORTY​

Remember Bohemia had just attacked? Days later…

Another war where I can’t take any land. Overall I have around the same number of troops as my enemies, of course half of mine are too far away to be of any use. The early focus is on beating Burgundy while pulling back in the East and letting attrition weaken the Bohemians. A Russian winter probably won’t drain Imperial manpower reserves but it will be useful against the minors.

Peace with Burgundy - February 1640

Two stack wipes(~56,000 troops) and a stormed province was enough to make Burgundy settle. You can also see Bohemia pushing hard into Southern Russia - That’s four 27,000 stacks and some solo regiments. /further North there’s around the same number of troop but many are from Bohemia’s minor allies. It’s the area I’ve concentrated my units to try and get local superiority. I need to kill stacks to persuade Bohemia to hand over the cores it’s using as a CB - as well as any cash that’s going!

Successes in the North - April 1640

I’m happy I’ve got some heavy kills in here (approx ~70 enemy regiments in trouble) but Bohemia has marched it’s Scandinavian stacks through Milanese Finland - 27 regiments in Novgorod with another 27 in shot marching that way. By mid-summer Bohemia will accept white peace but then…

I lose a series of battles across the Northern front through the autumn as an endless stream of Bohemian reinforcements arrive. I’m fairly sure that virtually everything they have is now at the front so I think we know where this goes next…

The Prague end run isn’t needed as the new year brings some sense to the Bohemians.

Butt ugly borders as usual. I know I could have gone for Milan as well here but I doubt Bohemia would have made peace if I picked up quarter of a million additional hostiles. There’s still time.

December 1641

Oh yeah baby.

I’ve also got a rather welcome new national decision available.

Maybe, just maybe, I can get rid of my inflation, now just over 8%.

War with Brunei - March 1642

I’m going to try and deal with Brunei’s fleet by camping outside their harbour since that gives an advantage in naval battles. Their uber-Admiral seems to have died as well.

Get in

They won’t be building another fleet that big. I can guarantee their economy won’t be capable. The rest of Brunei’s fleet is forced back to sea and destroyed when I storm the fortress. It’s still too soon to send a diplomat… There’s no real resistance on land and by the end of the year everywhere is occupied. Mali and Qin have been peaced out for cash and cores.

Rapidly decreasing BB brings it’s own reward.

That Boundary Dispute on Republican Switzerland is nice, giving me a relatively easy ‘in’ to warring the Empire and adding a very interesting province to border…

By June 1643 BB is down to 6.81 / 23.00 falling at 3.10 a year and it’s time to attack Majapahit while I’m already at war with guarantor Brunei - I don’t want to inadvertently muck up my truces so I can’t DOW Brunei again before the end of 1649.

There’s no meaningful resistance and the last fortress falls towards the end of the year. I can annex in one go - always worth checking with four province minors. I don’t annex straightaway - instead it’s peace with Brunei in December 1643.

Now I could have taken more than five provinces for 100 war score - so why didn’t I? I wanted the two Chinese provinces to stop them revolting, Brunei is probably too weak to reclaim them. I took Makassar because it can form an OPM and I took a province on Borneo so I can position handily for the next war. The last province was simply the most expensive I could get with my remaining war score.

BB is now 10.24 / 23.00 falling at 3.10 a year.

Right at the end of December 1644 Majapahit is annexed pushing BB back to 11.23 / 23.00 falling at 3.00 a year. I can start one more Holy War against any given country before the cut off point at the end of 1649.

 

[Tudyboss]

quite impressive so hopefully you'll be able to clear brunei off indochina next war?and what about the japs?

 

[TheArchMede]

I think that should read "I will start one more holy war against every given country ..."

Paint the world red, complete catholic conversion and have infamy at 0 by 1800?

 

[Taylor]

How come it always seems like Bohemia is winning the war but then accepts defeat?

Impressive engineering in SE Asia there

 

[homy_dog34]

Good update. Hope you can really manage the holy wars well.

 

[unmerged(471650)]

It is nice capturing your own ships back.
Impressive work as always.
I never have nice borders till the WC is done.
It would be nice if someone other than Milan consolidated europe for you.

 

[Barsoom]

I think that should read "I will start one more holy war against every given country ..."

Seconded. But I read Prawn's last sentence as meaning: I made peace just in time to start one more Holy War against Brunei, meaning he's got time for a Holy War against all of them. Very nicely done with the pace deal, by the way.

I'm still not entirely certain how Japan works in DW, but if I understand correctly, you can abolish the Shogunate to make the remaining Japanese factions independent? If so, then would you have been able to use Holy War against all of them separately?

Looking forward past 1650, I see in your European screenshot that you still have an OPM in the middle of your French territories which I think is a vassal. Will you try to annex diplomatically after 1650? If there are more of those, it may be worthwhile to bring the centralization slider back up by forming Great Britain. Also, can you give us an overview of your colonization efforts in the Americas in the next update?

 

[Barsoom]

The idea for Ming and Qin is certainly the Horde treatment although that doesn't always work out too well - Khorasan anyone...

As to this: "Chinese OPMs, I knew Khorasan, I was a friend of Khorasan, and you're no Khorasan!"