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Other then that your posts are quite pointless.

As a Paradox Dev, and not part of their publishing arm, Darkrenown is not actually in any way affiliated with Kerberos, Valve or SotS2, outside of possibly talking to people from there and being a fan. So yeah, he never said he was here in his official capacity as a Paradox rep, people just assume that.
 
As a Paradox Dev, and not part of their publishing arm, Darkrenown is not actually in any way affiliated with Kerberos, Valve or SotS2, outside of possibly talking to people from there and being a fan. So yeah, he never said he was here in his official capacity as a Paradox rep, people just assume that.

I was under impression that he was. But, anyways I understand he is trying to support his fellow developers, but they just plainly lied to us and released an unfinished game. It gets me annoyed esp after reading all those posts by Mecron in which he claims he only cares about quality, honesty, transparency, etc.
 
Mate, I know that you, being the member of Paradox, would want to defend the game, but please do not act like the game is playable or as if the game was released finished.

Please point out where I said anything of the sort?

I'm sorry you don't like my posts, they are not required reading though, feel free to skip over them! ;)

Xmas: Us on the Dev side have literally nothing to do with SotS, other than some of us playing it.

Also, what Robrecht said.
 
This is true but he's also someone on the inside and thus I would wager knows things none of us do. I am also fairly certain he is required to keep a tight lid on what he does and is allowed to say. He's probably like a seething volcano. :p
 
Please point out where I said anything of the sort?

I'm sorry you don't like my posts, they are not required reading though, feel free to skip over them! ;)

Xmas: Us on the Dev side have literally nothing to do with SotS, other than some of us playing it.

Also, what Robrecht said.

I have nothing against you personally, but you come across as if you are playing a game with all features working properly, with no bugs and as if the whole debacle of "we promised you a complete game and here it is LIE" didn't happen at all.

You do say in your posts that game is incomplete, but nowhere do you address the main issue that bothers us, the fact that we were deceived and lied to by, at least the developer, if not Paradox as well.
 
I have nothing against you personally, but you come across as if you are playing a game with all features working properly, with no bugs and as if the whole debacle of "we promised you a complete game and here it is LIE" didn't happen at all.

You do say in your posts that game is incomplete, but nowhere do you address the main issue that bothers us, the fact that we were deceived and lied to by, at least the developer, if not Paradox as well.

If it helps, I am sorry the game is in its current state. I'm a huge SotS fan, and I've been waiting for this release for a long time, so I'm as disappointed as anyone at the moment. I'm not sure how I have given the impression I don't think the game has bugs, but let me be clear: It has lots, and it's not something I can enjoying playing yet. No one involved is happy with this and everyone is working to improve it as soon as possible.

I can't address your main issue, but there are a number of threads, including this one where our CEO, publishing people, and Kerberos say we're sorry about the release and it'll be fixed ASAP, those are the best I can offer you right now.
 
If it helps, I am sorry the game is in its current state. I'm a huge SotS fan, and I've been waiting for this release for a long time, so I'm as disappointed as anyone at the moment. I'm not sure how I have given the impression I don't think the game has bugs, but let me be clear: It has lots, and it's not something I can enjoying playing yet. No one involved is happy with this and everyone is working to improve it as soon as possible.

I can't address your main issue, but there are a number of threads, including this one where our CEO, publishing people, and Kerberos say we're sorry about the release and it'll be fixed ASAP, those are the best I can offer you right now.

Saying sorry about the release and saying "we knew game was unfinished, but we acted like it was and we told you that it was and then charged you money- sorry about that" is not the same.
 
I'm pretty sure it's not in his authority to apologize for "we knew game was unfinished, but we acted like it was and we told you that it was and then charged you money" Dark has already said as much as he is probably allowed to by his job. In fact, since he is one of the few who IS saying ANYTHING, maybe we should cut him some slack for not being able to speak for all of Paradox AND Kerberos.
 
Actually, we've already established that the reason why Darkrenown isn't saying much more is not that he's not allowed to. It's that he's not in any way involved with all of this beyond being another fan just like the rest of us. He just happens to be a fan who works at Paradox's Development arm. (Rather than it's publishing arm, which IS involved.)
 
Ok, but the core of what I'm saying still applies. We don't need to harass him for not speaking for two different companies when ,especially, the project in question (SOSTII) is not even something he is a part of.
 
Saying sorry about the release and saying "we knew game was unfinished, but we acted like it was and we told you that it was and then charged you money- sorry about that" is not the same.

Well, the facts of the matter are you have bought a game you are not happy with, there's a refund thread here, or there should be a patch on Monday and an update from the devs about what they plan to do.
 
Saying sorry about the release and saying "we knew game was unfinished, but we acted like it was and we told you that it was and then charged you money- sorry about that" is not the same.

Ok, the man apologized. Now hand over the stick and leave the bleeding horse alone already.
 
Yes. Despite being significantly disappointed and upset by this release I am reserving judgment until things are sorted out and a statement is made by actual Kerberos. If, in some time, Kerberos still hasn't made progress towards fixing this release and making amends I will obviously be a little bit more angry.
 
Well, the facts of the matter are you have bought a game you are not happy with, there's a refund thread here, or there should be a patch on Monday and an update from the devs about what they plan to do.

I don't think some people get that when the first 30 people post soapbox threads indicating their anger and frustration, and then 40 take part in those threads adding me-too posts, that this can be understood as representative of people who have yet to post their own soapbox threads or me-too posts. It's very human, and we're all that. Each of us needs our moment to express ourselves, believing that the same point made by someone else just doesn't have the same urgency.

Which isn't meant to contradict what you wrote. Just to explain, I guess, why you'll continue to see more of the same for a while, yet.
 
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Well I'm far from pleased with purchasing a beta to play test/ iron out bugs - however there are plenty of things I see in the game at present that makes me think the game will be great with continued / increased attention. I will say a big positive though - I have bought plenty of games from a variety of publishers on a variety of genres - most are not in a state like SOTS however some have been - the devs and publishers have put their hands up and have communicated (all be it - after the event :p ) with their community about the game and its problems. Now that is rare from devs / pubs -normally some arrogant comment, or more usually no comment at all. So while I don't thank you for the the $40 beta test - I do thank you for your communication.
 
Here are some of the problems that I see that have led us to this point:

Problem #1: Publishers push the devs to finish by a deadline. If the deadline comes and goes without any product, the devs may get dropped by the publisher or fined. Since the devs, in this case, are already having financial problems, neither option is desirable. The result is an unfinished, buggy release. The devs probably put in 7-day work-weeks just before the release, and now they have to put in 24-7 schedules to fix what they couldn't before the release.

Problem #2: Reporting a game isn't finished is deceitful, but almost any release is a work in progress and has a lot of bugs, especially from a small company. Be happy that both the publisher and devs are dedicated to this release and patching it quickly. Many gaming companies are happy to release something broken and let players sit on it for months before it is fixed. (Case-in-Point: Creative Assembly) The answer isn't more delays due to pressure from both consumers and publisher. The devs also have a financial problem and could definitely use the cash injection to possibly hire back layoffs to help fix the project and get to work on expansions and DLC.

Problem #3: Most consumers have no idea what's going on behind the scenes and will speculate, assume the worst, accuse, etc. They will blame greedy corporate heads sitting in their ivory towers smoking Cubans and counting cash, when in truth, the company is scrambling to try to fix problems that crop up, apologize, address hundreds of emails and forum posts, and maintain the company image in the worst of times. Additionally, the devs are a smaller company, not some huge corporate fat cat. If you want to continue to kill small companies, then don't support them, and instead, support the huge corporations that don't care about all your ranting and raving. (Note: The 'Occupy Wall Street' protesters are going to hate you though.)

Problem #4: As technology advances, consumers are demanding more complex game content, strategy, diplomacy, graphics, sound, computer AI, etc. The demand on developers is enormous. Consumers simply salivate to ravenously consume the product, and like a pack of hungry wolves, have no mercy for the weak. You could wait another 6 months to get a perfect game, but then other releases will make the new "perfect" release obsolete. It's better to release something and fix it as you go. The consumers can often help through mods, constructive feedback, and helpful suggestions. Modders are a critical part of any gaming community, since they are customers increasing the value of a product for free. However, modders need the product to be released before they can join the devs in fixing the product.

Problem #5 (for the publishing company and developers to consider): Consumers are generally unforgiving due to the fact they expect a certain amount of value for the money that they paid. When the value falls short of expectation, this can cause consumers to express their post purchase dissonance strongly. However, consumers are people who often have a lump of muscle in their chest that thumps many times every minute. This muscle is called a heart. If you want to appeal to the hearts of a consumer that is upset with a failure, you must provide as much information as is realistically possible about efforts that are being made to solve the problems and how you are attempting to get that expected value into their hands as quickly as possible. Then you must follow through on the information you provided. [I recommend that you devs and publishers look up "service recovery paradox" to learn how to make disgruntled customers even more loyal than if you had released a flawless product because your customers are extremely disgruntled. You have a great opportunity here to improve customer loyalty!] Stating that you are "working on it" isn't enough. Direct consumers to developer blogs, release patch notes for the next patch, offer freebies or discounts on the next DLC for those who pre-purchased, etc.
The bottom line is that providing more information about what is going on is going to make things much better. This includes providing your PR department with this information as well so they can pass it on. Many companies put their PR department right into the teeth of the angry customers with no power or knowledge to address the problems beyond simple, "We're working on it. Sorry about this. Please, be patient." Be positive and work hard as a team to fix problems, but remember that customers will co-create value with you, so leaving them out of the loop can make them very irate even after the problems have been solved.

Final Thoughts: I, for one, am impressed with the hard work and dedication by the publishers and developers throughout this crisis. I do hope they will be more transparent in their efforts to solve this problem though. I will continue to keep an eye on goings on, and possibly use it as a case study for my marketing students. :)
 
In a quote by Shams Jorjani , a producer at Paradox in an artical on newsshack.com (http://www.shacknews.com/article/70278/syndicate-inspired-cartel-announced-by-paradox) Mr. Jorjani seems to be saying that they are doing quite well and don't need to worry about money when it comes to putting out new games:

"Thanks to Magicka and Mount & Blade we are in a very comfortable situation now at Paradox, so we can find something fun and just do it. 2K and the others might need to sell five million copies of their game, and might only be able to do that with a shooter, but we don't have that worry. We can make games that hearken back to the 90s," he said."​

If that is so, why force out a game like SotS2 that is clearly not ready. Why not throw some more money at the developer and release when its truly ready?

In another interview at CGArena.com, (http://www.cgarena.com/archives/interviews/paradox-interactive/paradox.php) this same guy is quoted as saying:
"We really try to work as a partnership. This means that we put a large amount of trust in each other’s work. The developer gets to make their game in peace and quiet, and they trust us to do the best marketing and sales job we can do on the publishing side. The producers are there to help developers avoid problems, offer input, remove threats and offer an outside view on the game to make it better. Our marketing/PR side focuses a lot on social media, and the sales department sells!"​

It is a pretty interesting article in general and worth a read. Still it begs the question, where was this kind of loving, nurturing support for Kerberos and SosT2?

I'm sure I can dig up dozens more articles out on the web that point to this SosT2 problem being something new and distasteful from Paradox, and hopefully some sort of anomaly. And while I'm sure many will say that this sort of discussion is pointless or unproductive, I think it bears some merit in that we, as fans, have been worked over to a certain degree. Trying to find some reason to explain all this should be a priority, shouldn't it?

:ninja:
 
your links offer a possible explanation
We really try to work as a partnership. This means that we put a large amount of trust in each other’s work. The developer gets to make their game in peace and quiet, and they trust us to do the best marketing and sales job we can do on the publishing side.
 
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