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battleships (even WWI-era) against heavy cruisers? why be surprised?

I missed the reference to battleships the first time round, so that clears it up a bit. Still, I would've expected 1930s-era heavy cruisers to be able to do better against WWI-era battleships (not that I'm saying that they should've won, just that I'm surprised they were beat up as badly as they were). I don't know how they would compare overall, but if nothing else, those cruisers should've been able to run away very fast from some lumbering 1914-ish battle wagon. :)
 
Move to support brave Poland! They're doing their best to hold back a red tide, but you surely can't let them be crushed by the bolshevik menace! :O

Indeed. There must be a lot of angry Polish generals and politicians by now, desperate to know just when their German allies are finally going to help them...
 
Its really odd reading this, in that I suppose I'm so used to the default Sov-Ger front post the partition of Poland so reading about the Soviets taking Lvov from the Poles just sounds ... odd?

as to your dilemna, I'd hit them now. As long as they are advancing they'll have all sorts of supply problems so its a chance for a quick kill and some useful experience for your panzer troops - presume you want to take back bits of W Poland once the Soviets force them to surrender so you don't want to halt the Soviet advance but no harm to disrupting its northern wing.

I know! :D It's actually really fun seeing all this frontal stuff that you're not used to. When the update comes, you won't be disappointed. I do try to hit them. My battle plan is to retain E. Prussia as long as possible, and to use that as a base for forays. We'll see how that works out.

I'd kick them out or risk the province just north of Johannesburg facing a three-angle attack, which would endanger your entire defense.

edited to add: I can't count the number of times I've done exactly that to dismantle the Maginot-line myself.

Yes - getting a good flanking angle at a position is very productive, so I have to make sure I don't fall too deeply into that trap.

Time for the Reichsfuhrer to make the famous speech: "We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Poland, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Fatherland, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...!" [with apologies to Churchill's ghost.]

:D Very nicely done! I'm not quite anticipating doom yet, but watching warily. That rallying cry of Churchill's was classic, though. And I say this as a former speechwriter -- when looking for speeches to motivate, you can't go far wrong with either Churchill or Reagan. Reagan is by far my favorite. And Churchill could be uninspired at times too -- he wasn't so gifted a speaker as he was a writer, truth be told -- but he had some real sparkling classic lines. Often this was due to his drafting of written speeches and managing to perfect the delivery on the air (which he didn't always pull off). If anyone hasn't seen The King's Speech (award winning artsy movie, recently) you should -- amazing stuff with a WW II tie-in.

Poland won’t stand a chance against the Red Army it seems, although they might defend them self bravely the Russians keep moving forward and now the threaten Germany. I think it is time to strengthen your defences along the border, but also to remember that offensive is often the best form of defence. So when you are ready strike forward and strike hard, an advance with large armoured armies followed by infantry should be able to catch the Soviets off guard and give you the possibility to push them back.

I am not impressed by your naval forces, okay you didn’t lose any ships and you destroy the Soviet transports, but taking such great losses on your capital ships is unacceptable. But I am guessing you have used more resources on your army than your navy, and in the long run I guess that is the most important, because this war will mainly be fought on land and it will certainly be decided on land…

Oh, they might surprise you! :) You'll see me develop a number of different defensive line strategies, meant to hold any breakthroughs. Unfortunately, my troop strength is low enough that beyond these defensive lines, there's not much reserve left! :eek: Yeah, my navy is not the greatest. But those were not my main battleships -- they were just a cruiser squadron that happened to be Johnny on the spot.

Wow. I guess admiral Raeder is not going to get any new toys, anytime soon, given the Kriegsmarine's poor performance in the Baltic. What exactly did the Soviets bring to the fray, to give you such a mauling?

On the land front, the Poles appear to be in collapse. I'd say counterattack now in East Prussia, while the Reds are still focused on Poland (and before they are at your borders everywhere).

Some other posters did mention that these were battleships. I don't remember what class of battleship that October Revolution ship was -- or when it was built -- but the determining factor there was heavy-caliber shells against relatively lightly defended heavy cruisers. Those CAs just aren't meant to stand in battle (or do damage to) battleships and their guns and armor.

Kill all those who enter the German soil! Nach Osten!

Ahh, yes. You will watch me try to keep them entirely out of E. Prussia.... And eventually give up. :D But that takes a while.

Well, I'm getting concerned about East Prussia. The Poles are really starting to fall apart now and your forces are beginning to look seriously exposed. This is so different from the usual German campaign! :)

Hopefully there is a strategic reserve? :eek:

Exposed, yes.... But part of my strategy is to allow the Soviets to bypass E. Prussia in order for THEM to become exposed. We'll see how well (or how badly) they cooperate with that strategy. There.... is not really a strategic reserve. But there is a strong defensive line, meant to stop the Soviets along a line of forests and other defensive positions.

Hopefully there is a strategic reserve? :eek:
there is. it's in his production queu.:D
:D

German Officer at front line speaks his thoughts.

What is our rubbish leader doing I wonder? He must be away with the faires. Short of him planning some vast encirclement of the Russian army I can't think what he's doing. IT's not worth it to encircle the enemy at the loss of our ally and the loss of faith it'll bring to our other allies. HE MUST MOVE IN SUPPORT OF OUR ALLIES NOW OR ELSE.

(Just trying to put my thoughts in more stylish terms than merely saying what I think but still the Legions of German Panzers must move in support of the poles)

:D Welcome, Thandros! If you suspect I'm planning a grand encirclement, you're on the right track. But, believe it or not, it's also part of my plan for Poland to fall. I'm not 100% certain that's the best plan, but it's the one I have, and as you will see I'm sticking to it! :D

Move to support brave Poland! They're doing their best to hold back a red tide, but you surely can't let them be crushed by the bolshevik menace! :O

Welcome, VonMudra! I agree, they are being dogged in their defense, and it is quite inspiring! :) But Germany must look to its own interests, and those are best served not necessarily by defending the territorial integrity of Poland. I have to look to the defense of E. Prussia, and the borders of Silesia, etc.

I missed the reference to battleships the first time round, so that clears it up a bit. Still, I would've expected 1930s-era heavy cruisers to be able to do better against WWI-era battleships (not that I'm saying that they should've won, just that I'm surprised they were beat up as badly as they were). I don't know how they would compare overall, but if nothing else, those cruisers should've been able to run away very fast from some lumbering 1914-ish battle wagon. :)

Oh, you're entirely correct. In fact, history credits KMS Prinz Eugen (one of the ships in this combat) with sinking the mighty HMS Hood. Granted, Hood was one of those ships (as I recall) which participated in the Battle of Jutland, where so many British battlecruisers were blowing up. All in all, my cruisers have a technological advantage over the enemy. That doesn't necessarily overcome the advantage of heavier armor and heavier guns, however. And I couldn't run away, as my intent was to sink those transports -- I had no idea whether they had troops on board, but I had to assume. That would have been a disaster, if they'd landed amphibiously in one of my lesser-protected districts.

Indeed. There must be a lot of angry Polish generals and politicians by now, desperate to know just when their German allies are finally going to help them...

Yes, I'm sure there are! Then again, this happened in real history, too. Poland just isn't as valuable as they believe themselves to be, in some circumstances. And at times, I think they were too trusting, and too gullible, for their own good. Now that I think about it... Has anyone seen a Polish AAR where they become Axis? Seems like I remember one, but I'm not thinking too clearly (taking in some bourbon margaritas for Father's Day! :D).

Okay... Locarno is the next AAR to be updated, and I hope to have that done either tonight or tomorrow sometime. Then after that, this one is on deck again.

Thanks for your readership! Great to have some new posters -- anybody else out there who's just lurking?

Rensslaer
 
Raegan? really? care to enlighten a non-republican-minded European?
 
The Soviet battleships were of the Dreadnought type, heavy cruisers hit by those 305mm shells would not look good, a modern battlecruiser would be a good match for them and Bismark would kill it quickly.

Isn't the Hood a 1926 design with a fatal weakness in deck armour.
 
Raegan? really? care to enlighten a non-republican-minded European?

Ahh, an opportunity to highlight my hero! :) Now, I don't want us to go off on a tangent into a political discussion -- I'm sure most of you disagree with me/Reagan on many things. But let me just respond to the question with some examples of why I'm a big fan of his speaking, and more. Besides, I have to prove, now, that I'm not a crazy man! :p

Reagan was called "The Great Communicator", and not for no reason. He could reach out and touch an audience with his inspiring speeches. He had a voice that just drew you into his presence (he was an actor, of course, but a more gifted speaker than most actors). Let me give you some samples:

His Pointe-du-Hoc speech is most fitting for an HOI 3 thread. The most inspiring parts are in the last couple of minutes, but the whole speech is really well crafted, though he stumbled a couple of times in delivery.

Pointe-du-Hoc 1984 (40th anniversary of D-Day Commemoration)

One thing about Reagan is he was very funny, and you'd always get a laugh out of his jokes. Once, in the 1980 campaign, President Carter had told a magazine interviewer that he enjoyed a cold shower in the morning. Reagan, on hearing this, said, "A man who tells you he enjoys a cold shower in the morning will lie to you about other things!" :) In a 1980 debate, Reagan gave his definition of the economy. He said, "A recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose your job. And the recovery is when he (points at Carter) loses HIS job!" This was half of why many of his fans might not even have agreed with him, but they loved him. Here's a collection of some of his humor: Reagan Humor Clips

Of course, Reagan was famous for fighting the Cold War against Communism. Soviet Jewish dissident Natan Sharansky said, after he was released from a Soviet prison, that the dissidents used to transmit Reagan's speeches in morse code through the prison bars to encourage each other and give them hope that someone cared about their fate. Critics said Reagan made war more likely (I disagree), but ironically he did win the Cold War peacefully (some may disagree on causes) and he did substantially contribute to peace between the US and USSR. Reagan's Berlin Wall Speech

In terms of policy, he could communicate very effectively. In the 1980 election (and even moreso in 1984), many of his supporters were independents and Democrats who appreciated his plain speaking, how he made common sense his ally, and how he could show he understood the little guy. But maybe his clearest explanation of his political beliefs was his first -- in 1964 he had recently changed from being a lifelong Democrat, and he made a speech in support of Barry Goldwater that was more effective than anything Goldwater (who was a thinker, not a communicator) said during his whole campaign! Goldwater wasn't a warmonger, btw, as his reputation says. In fact, Reagan's foreign policy for 8 years was essentially what Goldwater said he would do, and all in all it turned out well. Neither was a warmonger -- they just believed in a strong defense (as all of us Paradox players do, too, yes? :D) Keep in mind Reagan was an amateur politician back then, and these ideas were his own, which refutes the claims of many that he was stupid: Reagan's 1964 Policy Speech

Here's one from the 1980 debates that is more tedious but really on target and effective (especially his using Carter's Misery Index against him, which had almost doubled during his 4 years): 1980 Debate Clips

Anyway, his personality and his speaking style made him beloved by many who you wouldn't normally think of as Republicans. Probably more Democrats than ever before crossed over to vote for him than has happened at any other time in history. He had blue-collar Democrats especially supporting him, but many others too.

Please excuse my brief foray into politics -- I won't say anything more except to respond to a couple of (hopefully very brief) comments if you guys can't help yourselves! :D Seriously -- I don't want to derail the thread, but wanted to share my admiration in response to the question.

The Soviet battleships were of the Dreadnought type, heavy cruisers hit by those 305mm shells would not look good, a modern battlecruiser would be a good match for them and Bismark would kill it quickly.

Isn't the Hood a 1926 design with a fatal weakness in deck armour.

Ahh, yes -- I should have remembered Hood was a 1926 model. I agree with your analysis of the relative strengths of these ships. A gun may be old, but the sheer weight of shell made it so the cruiser armor couldn't compete effectively. So I don't think the outcome is entirely unrealistic.

I should mention, also, that the Soviets had quite a few cruisers and destroyers along with their battleships. So I was quite happy with the way it turned out.

Still hoping to get Locarno tomorrow or so. Then this one's up again!

Rensslaer
 
can't resist the Reagan theme ... apols and brief. His speech after the Challenger disaster with that image of the finger of god (that caught so accurately the visual image of the vapour trail) was brilliant. As a European and very much on the left, beyond acknowledging his ability to speak and use words to connect, no, I remain unimpressed. And more than happy to discuss the reasons for the collapse of the USSR (or more interestingly why it collapsed the way it did as opposed into a N Korean style autarky) elsewhere. One reason is that so many right wing observers miss the critical role of the PCI and of the ideas of Euro-Communism in determining the direction the Soviet leadership tried to follow post-84 (& failed as the last thing Thatcher-Reagan wanted was a revitalised USSR).
 
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! :D

I like Reagan's charisma, too. I consider him to be one of the best speakers (among politicians) of the XXth century. Whatever your views may be, you have to admit that there are people who can simply inspire others with their speeches. Regarding XXth century politicians, in no particular order, my votes would go to:

Winston Churchill
Ronald Reagan
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
John Fitzgerald Kennedy

They all made various mistakes, but their speeches were inspiring shows, indeed.

EDIT: Oh, and I have to say that Hitler was a good orator, too. His mad views were inherently, absolutely wrong, but when I heard his speeches, I actually envied him his overwhelming charisma.
 
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:eek::eek::eek:
I have to say I'm astonished, started reading this and I simply could not get off the computer, excellent AAR.

Now we shall defend the Fatherland and stop the Communist hordes. They are a threat to civilization and must be stoped, they shall not take another inch of our territory.
 
A very different kind of Germany...and a very different kind of AAR. I've been reading long before I became a member of this forum. Good job on the defense. Wish I could become this good at playing.
 
Operation Brise​

The German plan of war had called for our positions in East Prussia to hold along our fortress line, and to wait for the Soviets to pass along the southern border of East Prussia as they were advancing along the path of least resistance. Surely, we believed, this would eventually put the Soviets in a position where they would be vulnerable to a foray by German armor/mobile forces being screened by the forts.

Originally, this offensive arm was centered around Gen. Guderian’s light tank division (which is 2/3 light tank, 1/3 motorized infantry), but as new divisions came on line they were rushed in from the west in hopes of bolstering this offensive capability. It was decided that the time was ripe to mount a counterattack – an attempt to cut off and destroy a small number of Soviet divisions, or at the very least serve as a test of arms which could allow us to speculate as to how this war would go, given the relative strengths of forces.

FirstTry.jpg


As such, Gen. Rommel made his way south into Poland in order to form the right pincer while Gen. von Manstein launched his left, northern pincer attack against Grajewo on the 28th of July. The Russians, by this time, were tired. Many of them had not fully reached their mobilization targets yet, and the dogged, if seemingly hopeless, defense of the Polish Army had worn them down. This made for some soft spots in the enemy lines, and by the 2nd day of the offensive, Manstein’s troops had pushed through, with von Funck’s 10th Panzer hot on his heels.

FirstPenetration.jpg


But soon, Manstein’s spearhead was hit from the flank by infantry from the Suwalki area. The 10th Panzer pivoted, and hit them hard on their own flank. There hadn’t been an intent to expand the offensive to Suwalki (it would have been wise to pin these divisions first, but there were limited forces at the Germans’ disposal).

FlankAttack.jpg


Over the next couple of days, the Soviet divisions from Suwalki broke off their attack on Manstein, but it was picked up again by other Russian units further south. The pressure upon Manstein’s light Panzers was kept up, and his progress was minimal.

At that time, on the 1st, Gen. Rommel’s motorized infantry hit the enemy at Sukolow, punching the second pincer in painfully. Despite the lack of progress further north, it was expected that Rommel’s drive would be sufficient to cut off the Soviet divisions which had been pressing into East Prussia.

Rommel.jpg


German air power was evident throughout this period, with Stuka squadrons hitting the points of attack relentlessly. The Red Air Force had been flooding the skies with fighters, in the early days of war, but there had been virtually nothing seen of the enemy bombers. They did, during this week, begin hitting targets in Grajewo and Seidice with medium bombers. Now, the German fighters – light and heavy fighters based out of Marienburg, which had recently been expanded – hit the Soviet fighters, and it was apparent they were taking a toll in both numbers of planes and operability. There was some hope, early on, that the Red Air Force might crumble at the feet of a more capable, if numerically inferior, Luftwaffe.

The 10th Panzer backed out of its offensive against Suwalki, and very quickly was replaced by the infantry which had been guarding Lyck. It was decided that, despite the fact that those infantry were meant to dig in and protect Lyck on a permanent basis, the situation demanded their employment to free up the Panzers, which would be wasted on a mere pinning operation.

Switcheroo.jpg


So the 10th Panzer rushed south to support von Manstein. There was concern that the offensive was already stalling, and that could not be allowed. Sadly, though, by the time the 10th arrived, von Manstein’s panzers were already falling back in an orderly retreat, completely spent. The Panzer III design was just not made for staying power on defense – it was a light, hit & run craft, and once the initiative was lost was hard to get it back.

LightTanksSuck.jpg


Von Funck’s Panzer IVs, by contrast, did have staying power. But that was not their role either – a defensive slugging match. Their role, truth be told, was meant to be entirely offensive. They would be wasted in a defensive role, losing the ability to react to a changing situation and move into whatever situations presented themselves. So von Funck fell back, too.

Complicated.jpg


In the south, on the 3rd, Rommel had succeeded in pushing the enemy back. At this point, however, the initial point of the counterattack had already failed. Nevertheless, there were at least 3 Soviet divisions virtually trapped, to the north, and Rommel was in a position to capitalize upon that.

Rather than try to complete the planned encirclement, on the 5th of August he turned the frontage of his attack north, pushing toward Lomza. If he could harry the Soviets north, then there would still be an encirclement, just not as great a one as the original plan called for. However, the Russians hit his flank from behind, complicating his mission.

As the Soviets moved forward to retake Grajewo, they were hit by a fresh attack by the 10th Panzer, meaning to throw them back yet again, and complete the planned encirclement. Moreover, Keppler’s 4th Panzer had just arrived from Germany, and employed itself in a flanking attack upon Lomza. But Rommel was quickly losing the ability to fight in two directions at once, and his ability to press home the attack was reduced by the hour.

NewGrip.jpg


There were just so many Soviet divisions pushing forward, into Poland, that the Germans were at risk of being rolled under. Soon enough, there were more, fresh units defending at Grajewo. Each German option seemed to be undercut just as it seemed on the verge of success. Urgent consultation was undertaken at the General Staff on the wisdom of continuing these operations.

Late on the morning of the 5th, orders went out to all units to cease Operation Brise and break contact with the enemy.

BreakContact.jpg


Each division would fall back, either behind the cover of German infantry in East Prussia, or Polish infantry in Poland itself. They would collect again in East Prussia, regroup, and reassess.

By the 8th, Rommel had successfully broken contact. Brise had been a failure. The German military, despite significant preparations and a decent amount of hardware, had proven it was not yet strong enough to stand with equality against the Soviet army.

GivingUp.jpg


Its offensive punching power was still not developed well enough to accomplish the mission with which it was tasked. The handicaps of Versailles, and the delicate diplomatic situation with the Allies, were still haunting Germany.

Nevertheless, nothing had really been lost in the venture. Experience had been gained, both general and specific, and these lessons would inform future employments of the offensive units.

Unfortunately, it was too late for these lessons to help the German southern counterattack, already underway.

Next: Operation Griff, in the south of Poland
 
The Soviets are sturdy, unfortunately. But at least Germany showed her teeth. Have you got Heavy Tanks?
 
The Soviet wave had not fully dashed itself on the Polish breaker when Germany jumped into the water too soon! You are fortunate that the defenses in East Prussia were not severely compromised. Be patient Grasshopper, only when you can snatch the pebble from Stalin's hand....
 
The Panzer III design was just not made for staying power on defense – it was a light, hit & run craft, and once the initiative was lost was hard to get it back.

They're probably panzer 2's the Panzer 3 falls under the class of medium tanks. If your light tanks divisions are using Panzer 3 then I would be surprised
 
Not the glorious counterstroke you were hoping for... Well, we can all hope that you've bought the Poles some time and that next time, with more preparation and more units, you'll have a better result.

Now what about this Operation Griff? :)