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Nice.
That is the first part which makes me quite excited.We get that it starts in 1467. What is the intended end date?
Before HoI3 was announced I remember LOTS of people (Including me) asking for a CK Styled game in Japan of China... Now we get it and lots of people starts complaining? I'm looking forward to it!
link?
Before HoI3 was announced I remember LOTS of people (Including me) asking for a CK Styled game in Japan of China... Now we get it and lots of people starts complaining? I'm looking forward to it!
I have only played EU3 and Vicky 2, but a non-Euro-centric game sounds like fun.
From my limited experience with Paradox games, I'm sure this game will be fun and open-ended, even though the map is "small" compared to the entire world.
That was a long time ago, do you think I will look through all the forums for the right thread and posts? o.0
Damn.
Add me to the disappointed list. I was hoping for something more exciting than this. A game about Japan when we are about to have a massive game about Japan (S2TW). WHY?
I was hoping to have my pants blown off. They remain on.
I will go back to praying for EU:Charlemagne 476-1066
Add me to the disappointed list. I was hoping for something more exciting than this. A game about Japan when we are about to have a massive game about Japan (S2TW). WHY?
I was hoping to have my pants blown off. They remain on.
I will go back to praying for EU:Charlemagne 476-1066
I like the trailer. the map looks great, nice music and I like character driven gameplay.
Not really. CK 2 who is focussed on Europe/Mediterranean/Middle East only, was highly wanted and well recieved by the fans. Likewise, when Rome was announced, a lot of people were pretty happy with the project.
Simply put there has never been much of an interest in these forums towards Paradox making a Japanese game, outside of the usual fan mods in EU2/3 and Victoria 1/2 towards making the Japanese setting more realistic. How can the decision be explained? Well, Rome was a new game, and although the sales were apparently pleasing, the fan consensus as to the quality of the game was that it was not good (So much that Rome forum acvitity died down pretty quickly, while other Clausewitz games continue to have activity (EU 3, Vicky 2 and HoI 3).
Now although Japan is a new game as well, I suppose that Paradox is using the same principles as behind CK, which were highly popular with the fans, so as to reduce the risk of the game quality being bad. Doing Japan also has a few other marketing bonuses, as it might allow Paradox to try to expand to markets previously unattracted to Paradox games (Worldwide Sengoku fans and Eastern Asian market in general), which if moderately successful in the Asian markets, might signal that starting a few games based on Asian countries might be a commercially sound idea. Another beneficial point is that while Japan is vastly overdone, there is no game which did Japan in the framework that Paradox is doing (Shogun: Total War is mostly about playing the battles, while Koei's Nobunaga's Ambition deals mostly with kingdom management, and doesn't delve too deeply into the RPG game (That I know of). But yes, there is a small niche for this game's style I guess.
Now, Paradox might have underestimated the base popularity of the Japanese setting with its own fans, and whether or not they will want to buy a CK look-alike based on Japan (Which in itself is Paradox's game with most reduced geographical scope, that I am aware of, so far) instead of Europe. I guess time (And sales) will tell. The "First Contact" consensus of the forum (Which obviously is nowhere near the majority of Paradox's customers), is not so encouraging.
I was only asking because I don't remember such posts like you describe. I remember people were yelling for Vicky 2 and CK 2, but not Japan.
you wouldnt want a dark ages game to be EU: maybe CK: but more likely something new entirely, EU just couldnt cut it.
just a thought from all this comparing it to another game ive never heard of that is also set in japan, what about india? has anyone ever made a game about india? it'd have a big map cos you know, india's massive. and maybe no-ones ever made a game set there before so.
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Interesting...I was right about the Sengoku/CA thing after all,but I was convinced it was going to be about the dark ages or the ancient world.
Sengoku jidai is certainly a fantastic setting for a game,so that's a plus. Not sure if a regional focus on only Japan will lend itself well for a PI style grand strategy game,though. Might get slightly boring dealing with what is essentially a single culture throughout the game.....maybe with a bit of China and Korea thrown in (good expansion material?) it could get a lot more interesting.
Still it should be a great CKII spin-off of sorts: there's no way you wouldn't want to develop both titles simultaneously when you have the resources at your disposal - efficient stuff!
Sengoku jidai is certainly a fantastic setting for a game,so that's a plus. Not sure if a regional focus on only Japan will lend itself well for a PI style grand strategy game,though. Might get slightly boring dealing with what is essentially a single culture throughout the game.....maybe with a bit of China and Korea thrown in (good expansion material?) it could get a lot more interesting.
Still it should be a great CKII spin-off of sorts: there's no way you wouldn't want to develop both titles simultaneously when you have the resources at your disposal - efficient stuff!
Good to hear the news.
Paradox gets a chance to remove the disappointment of many funs with EU3: DW.
Paradox gets a chance to remove the disappointment of many funs with EU3: DW.
Well I have to admit I am very excited by this game's potential.
The problem with games based on Japan is not so much that they are over done (and I have never bought into the concept that something can be overdone) so much as they are so badly done. Most games about Feudal Japan are jokes as they model more what Westerners like to see Feudal Japan as, rather then how it really was. The historians of the "Samurai Archives Citadel" forum have a good name for this, "sammy-rai". Shogun TW and now TW Shogun 2 are perhaps the best examples of this problem. Though Shogun 2 may be fixable, depending on how the modding scene works out.
If Paradox can make this game without falling into the sammy-rai stereotypes about Japan and the bushi then we are looking at a truly phenomenal game. Takeda 3 by Magitech was a great step in that direction as it proved you can make a good game that balances fun with history without falling into the sammy-rai patten. Unfortunately Takeda 3 did suffer from some problems and I know some people here do not like it (personally I enjoy Takeda 3 immensely).
Another trap that Paradox should try to avoid would be that which Nobunaga's Ambition by KOEI fell into. While enjoyable in its own right NA was very much how has the most units. The man with the biggest army tends to win the game. If Sengoku can avoid that trap, and make winning about who uses their resources best (strategic, diplomatic, and and so on), then the game becomes much more true to the setting. I would love to play a game in which I can win a war, but still lose in the struggle to unify the land because I misused my other resources. Diplomacy, family management, your territory, and so on.
Again, and this can not be stressed enough, Sengoku can be so much more then just another Japan game if the developers stay away from the sammy-rai pop-culture nonsense and make this game as deep as the setting deserves.
I am not asking for total historical accuracy, as such is impossible. I am simply asking that Paradox make a game that is more accurate and deep then the great mass of "Japan-themed" games out on the market today. I think they would be surprised by how well such a game would do.
The problem with games based on Japan is not so much that they are over done (and I have never bought into the concept that something can be overdone) so much as they are so badly done. Most games about Feudal Japan are jokes as they model more what Westerners like to see Feudal Japan as, rather then how it really was. The historians of the "Samurai Archives Citadel" forum have a good name for this, "sammy-rai". Shogun TW and now TW Shogun 2 are perhaps the best examples of this problem. Though Shogun 2 may be fixable, depending on how the modding scene works out.
If Paradox can make this game without falling into the sammy-rai stereotypes about Japan and the bushi then we are looking at a truly phenomenal game. Takeda 3 by Magitech was a great step in that direction as it proved you can make a good game that balances fun with history without falling into the sammy-rai patten. Unfortunately Takeda 3 did suffer from some problems and I know some people here do not like it (personally I enjoy Takeda 3 immensely).
Another trap that Paradox should try to avoid would be that which Nobunaga's Ambition by KOEI fell into. While enjoyable in its own right NA was very much how has the most units. The man with the biggest army tends to win the game. If Sengoku can avoid that trap, and make winning about who uses their resources best (strategic, diplomatic, and and so on), then the game becomes much more true to the setting. I would love to play a game in which I can win a war, but still lose in the struggle to unify the land because I misused my other resources. Diplomacy, family management, your territory, and so on.
Again, and this can not be stressed enough, Sengoku can be so much more then just another Japan game if the developers stay away from the sammy-rai pop-culture nonsense and make this game as deep as the setting deserves.
I am not asking for total historical accuracy, as such is impossible. I am simply asking that Paradox make a game that is more accurate and deep then the great mass of "Japan-themed" games out on the market today. I think they would be surprised by how well such a game would do.
I was sort of dissapointed until I read the details and saw the map.
Then I realised I'm a PI cult member and would buy the gamer regardless of what it is.
Though I am looking forward to see what PI will do to make this game unique from it's other major franchises (CK, EU, VIC, HOI). Hopefully if this does well, they'll give the Dark Ages a go, and maybe redo Rome to get it to a version people find constantly re-playable.
Then I realised I'm a PI cult member and would buy the gamer regardless of what it is.
Though I am looking forward to see what PI will do to make this game unique from it's other major franchises (CK, EU, VIC, HOI). Hopefully if this does well, they'll give the Dark Ages a go, and maybe redo Rome to get it to a version people find constantly re-playable.
Oh well, im kinda dissapointed after that week-long build up for announcement. Was expecting a something more different and im not a biggest fan of CK either ( have playerd CK a little but didn't intrigued much). But we'll see, im not really worried about shogun vs sengoku either since so far PI have never failed to bring something original and different.
Japan is too overdone and overrated, if you want asian dudes with swords you look to Mongolia but if you want little final fantasy fan boys to buy your game then you make it about Japan.
