The Great Crusade

[dannyboy2016]

danielshannon, could we get a world map, please?)

Since the boundaries of the Americas are already fixed (besides the US occupied Falkland/Malvinas islands) I’m just going to provide some maps of Europe and Asia. Everything not pictured is either occupied by the US or by partisans.

Here is the north Atlantic region. Most of the formerly European controlled Islands are occupied by the USA (the exception being the territories in the West Indies Federation). The free states of Europe at this time are the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the Iberian Union, Germany, France (expanded to include Wallonia), the Netherlands (expanded to include Flanders), Switzerland, Italy, and Malta. All of these states were made possible through plebiscites (though there are sizable minorities of Czech and Irish nationalists who do not accept the results of the plebiscites in Bohemia and Ireland).

Gibraltar is disputed by the UK and Iberia. Currently, it is administered by the United States.

East Prussia is currently US occupied for supply chain reasons, but will be returned to Germany now that the USSR is vanquished.
Germans seized Memel when the USSR was annexed. Its status will be debated later.

Please note that the USA and Canada liberated all of this territory from the Soviets which had ruled over all of Europe for over a decade. This is why there is the blank check for reshaping Europe.

Here is a close up of Europe.

Here is the Asia-Pacific region. For some reason, Japan didn’t have claims on all of the Kuriles when I released them, but I do plan on giving those to Japan. The free states in the region are India, Ceylon (Sri Lanka), Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines. Anzac contributions to the war effort were substantial and Indian forces played a minor role, but the other states here didn’t contribute much to victory either because they are tiny (Sri Lanka) or they were liberated too late in the game to play a major role.

 

[dannyboy2016]

IC: Germany supports the plebiscite in Scandinavia, as for Northern Schleswig, I will leave that to the people.




OOC: Daniel, would you mind rolling a dice over that too? Options are: Immediate Union with Denmark, union with Denmark/Scandinavia/Whatever in, say, five years or remaining with Germany.

sure

 

[Eams]

I will remind you that we are not in the 21st century and therefore you cannot use modern feelings as your basis.

Nor am I, but it's very generous of you to make that assumption.

Of course even if you were to you would have to note that Denmark and Norway are much closer to each other then they are to Sweden. At this point in history it's been decades since Norway told Sweden to take a hike (1905). They were in union with Denmark until conquered by Sweden in 1814. Futhermore Danish and Norwegian are mutually intelligible to each other so the language barrier is small.

And here's the fun part about what happened after the peaceful dissolution, they did not ask to become a part of Denmark again. This is like trying to argue with someone who claims that the moon-landings didn't happen or that the pope is not a Catholic, the premises of your argument is so absurd that I don't know how to address it.

You know actually... Yeah that's fair. It is their future and country and all that so yeah, let them pick. They might pick foolishly but...

Again, how incredibly generous of you.

 

[unmerged(83789)]

(IC) {Made during Prime Minister's Question Time}
The reference I made to Stalin against the honorable gentlemen in question was in reference to his original preference of enforcing a union without democratic action. Now that the United States Federal Government has withdrawn such an opinion we fully back their plan for a democratic vote in the area.

 

[trekaddict]

OOC: The province of Memel is actually horribly inaccurate, Memel as it was seized is a strip of land and the city itself.

The red marked bit is the actual Melland.


IC: Handing the Memelland back is out of Discussion. Not only were most of those who survived Soviet Occupation Germans to begin with, but we would also guarantee access rights for whatever form Lithuania will take. We will not hand it back. Period.

 

[hoi2geek]

Ireland must be given a second referendum. Also, Estonia, Ingria, and Karelia must be unified w/ Finland and the Sami peoples must be given an independent state.

-Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons

 

[unmerged(83789)]

We would like to pass a motion that Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons be disallowed from speaking at this conference. He is a upstart of a province that voted democratically and fairly to join in a union with Britain. This call of his for a second referendum is merely a attempt to stir up secessionist violence and waste money. We will boycot all further speeches by Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons and we ask that our allies do the same.

Another issue that needs to be raised the predominance of one power on the continent. It has never served global peace or security to have one power control Europe, let us not forgot the great war. The Germans were also some of the most willing people to collaborate with the Russians, at least in the earlier parts of the war.

Finally the need for a Roma homeland is clear and a committee must be set up to address this issue. It must remain clear in our minds that anywhere between 70 and 90% of the Roma population perished under Russian rule.

 

[trekaddict]

We would like to pass a motion that Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons be disallowed from speaking at this conference. He is a upstart of a province that voted democratically and fairly to join in a union with Britain. This call of his for a second referendum is merely a attempt to stir up secessionist violence and waste money. We will boycot all further speeches by Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons and we ask that our allies do the same.

Seconded. Now Winston, where are these cigars you promised me?

Another issue that needs to be raised the predominance of one power on the continent. It has never served global peace or security to have one power control Europe, let us not forgot the great war. The Germans were also some of the most willing people to collaborate with the Russians, at least in the earlier parts of the war.

However this stopped quickly, and 'the Germans' were never that happy for the most part, only the red Districts in Berlin, the Ruhr Area and Munich were enthusiastic at first. However we are of course supporting some sort of agreement. What does the United Kingdom have in mind?

Finally the need for a Roma homeland is clear and a committee must be set up to address this issue. It must remain clear in our minds that anywhere between 70 and 90% of the Roma population perished under Russian rule.

Where would this be? Perhaps in the corners of Belorussia, Poland and the Ukraine?

 

[J.J.Jameson]

Seconded. Now Winston, where are these cigars you promised me?




However this stopped quickly, and 'the Germans' were never that happy for the most part, only the red Districts in Berlin, the Ruhr Area and Munich were enthusiastic at first. However we are of course supporting some sort of agreement. What does the United Kingdom have in mind?




Where would this be? Perhaps in the corners of Belorussia, Poland and the Ukraine?

(IC)
Poland would accept this, if after the people of the area vote in favor of this. We would also like to again state our desire for a union with Lithuania.
(OOC) Also, this would create another decent sized state, which along with France, germany, and whatever happens to scandanavia, can ensure that no one becomes to powerful.

 

[dannyboy2016]

We would like to pass a motion that Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons be disallowed from speaking at this conference. He is a upstart of a province that voted democratically and fairly to join in a union with Britain. This call of his for a second referendum is merely a attempt to stir up secessionist violence and waste money. We will boycot all further speeches by Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons and we ask that our allies do the same.

Another issue that needs to be raised the predominance of one power on the continent. It has never served global peace or security to have one power control Europe, let us not forgot the great war. The Germans were also some of the most willing people to collaborate with the Russians, at least in the earlier parts of the war.

Finally the need for a Roma homeland is clear and a committee must be set up to address this issue. It must remain clear in our minds that anywhere between 70 and 90% of the Roma population perished under Russian rule.

We understand that Mr. Vinzons views on Ireland are anathema to the Government of the United Kingdom. However, he is the official representative of the Republic of the Philippines and is highly respected in his home country for his years as an anti-Soviet partisan. He should be allowed to remain at the conference. However, he should refrain from further agitation on the issue of Ireland, unless he has proof that the Irish referendum was somehow fraudulent.

Regarding the issue of the Roma, we could support a Roma homeland, but the question remains where they could be settled and if they would even wish to be settled. It should be remembered that Bela Kun’s Hungary and Attaturk’s Turkey willingly aligned themselves with the Soviet war effort. Thus there may be justification for creating Roma state at Hungary’s expense. Furthermore, we believe that the Armenians, Kurds, and Greeks should be compensated at Turkey’s expense. We propose to resolve the issue of the Balkans after the status of Poland and the Baltic states are determined.

And now I'm pleased to report the results of the referendums in Scandinavia.

Results of first round of voting (best of 3 rolls for each)
Iceland - 2/3 support for Scandinavian Union 1/3 for Magi's 2 state solution
Sweden - 2/3 support for pre war boundaries 1/3 support for Scandinavian Union
Norway - 2/3 support for 2 state solution 1/3 support for pre war boundaries
Denmark - 2/3 support for independent Denmark 1/3 for merger with Norway
Finland - 2/3 support for Scandinavian union 1/3 support for union with Sweden

Given the expressed desire of Norwegian and Icelandic voters for a merger with at least Denmark the Danes were asked to vote on the issue a second time. 2/3 of Danes supported a merger with Norway and Iceland in the second round of voting.

Once it was clear that the Citizens of Norway, Iceland, and Denmark favored a Union there remained the question of whether the Finns would prefer to join a Scandinavian union that did not include Sweden. 2/3 of Finish voters decided that they had no interest in joining with Norway, Denmark, and Iceland. Furthermore, they decided not to press the Swedes for a Union either.

An additional nonbinding referendum showed a 2/3 majority support in Denmark for selling or leasing Greenland to Canada, provided that Denmark is "justly compensated" for the territory and that the people of Greenland eventually get an opportunity to decide their own future.

The election in Schleswig-Holstein showed 2/3 support for an eventual merger with Denmark and 1/3 support for an immediate merger with Germany. Given the results we suggest that Denmark and Germany jointly administer the province for the next 5 years followed by a second plebiscite to determine if the people still wish to merge with the Danish-Norwegian-Icelandic Union.

Thus, it looks like the people prefer a three state solution: Sweden, Finland, and the Union of Denmark, Norway, and Iceland.

 

[ColossusCrusher]

IC: We believe that Gibraltar should be returned to Spain. It was taken from us under imperial pretences and such acts have no place in the modern world. To return The Rock to the British would be to accept and even approve of the imperialism that we have just recently destroyed.

OOC: You didn't think that this was going to go unsaid, did you?

 

[unmerged(83789)]

(OOC) I looked up and down the list and couldn't see Wenceslao Quinito Vinzon so I automatically assumed he was a IRA type fellow.

We respect the Scandinavian peoples wishes and hope to see much from them in the future.

Now my dear Erwin I was just about to get on to that. (Takes a box from his jacket, with a twinkle in his eye) The last Sobranie in known existence. Found in a army depo by British troops, much of the goods in the depo was needed to feed the populace but as I understand it my government now holds onto some of the last. Lighter? I'd have one myself but I'm a more cigar man, that being said its damn hard to get hold of the things with the empire currently adue. I was told you didn't smoke you know?

If it bears the delegates well, I had my ministers draw up a rough image of the post war Balkan states:

In Grey we have Slovakia, gold is a rump Hungary centered around Budapest. In red the Roma state to be set up as a federal government with many autonomous and semi-autonomous bodies. In Orange the Federal Government of Yugoslavia, Albania and Bulgaria, to act as a counter weight to the other major European powers. And finally in blue Greece, enlarged with the British protectorate of Cyprus and Constantinople. We will be willing to sell Cyrus to the Greeks for a substantial fee and a 99 years worth of basing rights, to be renegotiated when this runs out.

 

[unmerged(83789)]

On the issue of Gibraltar why not let the people decide?

(OOC) I can see no chance of they voting yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_1967

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002

 

[J.J.Jameson]

On the issue of Gibraltar why not let the people decide?

(OOC) I can see no chance of they voting yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_1967

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_sovereignty_referendum,_2002

I agree with this honored representitive.

 

[unmerged(89475)]

Alrighty, what's the next issue for all of us to scream at each other over? Honestly I think Gibraltar is an issue for Spain and Great Britain to work out as they see fit and not a matter for this conference.

 

[dannyboy2016]

Alrighty, what's the next issue for all of us to scream at each other over? Honestly I think Gibraltar is an issue for Spain and Great Britain to work out as they see fit and not a matter for this conference.

Poland.
Do you still have the map of your proposals?

 

[J.J.Jameson]

Poland.
Do you still have the map of your proposals?

(OOC) Do I?!
(IC)
Our Proposals is a federation of eastern european territories. Including Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Belarus, and Western Ukraine. Essentialy; the historic realms of Poland-Lithuania.

This map shows the general area put forth by my government. I await your most expediant reply.
Barring Eastern Prussia, of course!

 

[Kaiser_Mobius]

(enters RP mode)

We would like to pass a motion that Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons be disallowed from speaking at this conference. He is a upstart of a province that voted democratically and fairly to join in a union with Britain. This call of his for a second referendum is merely a attempt to stir up secessionist violence and waste money. We will boycot all further speeches by Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons and we ask that our allies do the same.

The government of Canada agrees that the Irish situation should no longer be subjected to any further attention. Ireland peacefully and willingly voted to join the UK, and Canada long ago promoted and recognized this act. Canada will not support any attempts by other delegates to cause instability and separatism in Ireland, or elsewhere in the British isles.

Regarding Gibraltar, Canada advocates the region becoming part of the Iberian union. However, Canada is also open to a referendum over the issue being held.

Also, Canada would be more than willing to provide the people of Denmark with financial and humanitarian aid to compensate them for the loss of Greenland to Canadian administration.

(exits RP mode)

My thought on Gibraltar is this: since the region was part of the Soviet Union, it would make sense that the Soviets probably took all the British people there and relocated them back to Soviet controlled Britain. Does Gibraltar even have any British people left there in this scenario? If there are not, then there is no reason why Gibraltar should not be given to Iberia.

 

[Ciryandor]

I also vote that we leave discussing the European questions to those who are most intensely affected by it, the peoples of Europe themselves, and let us provide a guiding hand to their futures.

Have the Estonians been consulted on whether they wish to join with the Finns in a union? Can the Poles with their other Slavic brethren make the Polish-Lithuanian confederation work as a viable state comparable to that of Germany and France in the west? I honestly would feel that the Roma given their cultural heritage would naturally reject a homeland of their own; and would like to ask on how much of them are left that the discussion of them having a separate state is viable.

 

[J.J.Jameson]

I also vote that we leave discussing the European questions to those who are most intensely affected by it, the peoples of Europe themselves, and let us provide a guiding hand to their futures.

Have the Estonians been consulted on whether they wish to join with the Finns in a union? Can the Poles with their other Slavic brethren make the Polish-Lithuanian confederation work as a viable state comparable to that of Germany and France in the west? I honestly would feel that the Roma given their cultural heritage would naturally reject a homeland of their own; and would like to ask on how much of them are left that the discussion of them having a separate state is viable.

I put this proposal forth, because seperatly these states are weak, but together they can form a strong nation for mutual protection and economic success.