I'm sure the education funding will be worth it down the road. I echo the question about the Catholics in Siam - how did they get there?
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Not too shabby, you're even getting a navy! 
Those revolts thought, isn't it a bit early to be getting anarcho-liberals? No, I have no clue if that's the case or not, game-wise, it just seems a bit wrong to have anarcho-liberal Siamese rebels in 1845.
Good job cultivating those artisans, by the way.
Those revolts thought, isn't it a bit early to be getting anarcho-liberals? No, I have no clue if that's the case or not, game-wise, it just seems a bit wrong to have anarcho-liberal Siamese rebels in 1845. Good job cultivating those artisans, by the way.
I have followed your AARs before Rens, that is probably where you've seen me. I can't remember which ones I've posted in, and it really doesn't matter. I can promise the comments were generous!
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
I am playing Siam at the moment as well though I am a secondary power now with Dai Nam taken out and waiting for my infamy level to drop to < 5 for me to take Johore. I have Universal voting in Siam as well. I am hoping to build up my military enough while waiting for CB.
A delightful educational AAR that shows off the new stuff nicely and teaches some strategy to boot. This should be requiAARd reading for every new player, especially people playing uncivs.
You don't know me, but I recall DerKaiser citing you as an inspiration for his AAR, my all time favourite "The Golden Nation". Keep up the good work, sir!
You don't know me, but I recall DerKaiser citing you as an inspiration for his AAR, my all time favourite "The Golden Nation". Keep up the good work, sir!
As you can see, I have one step to go before I move in any other direction. Education has improved somewhat. I've been using my Focus Points on either Clergy or Bureaucrats, basically checking the Population Interface and screening one state at a time to see what that state's demographics are. If they're below the 2% threshold, I'll put a Focus there to raise percentages, starting with the most populous states. Welcome Jorian!
To be honest, I haven't been THAT detailed in my research into the overall goods flow. I do know that I'm importing wool and fish (fish is a little silly, but I guess I'm happy to have finer goods). Someone's buying my Opium (rich Brits?). My more recent gameplay concerns have erased my memory of some other early-game issues, but that's what I remember for sure. I hope that update helped explain the majority of your interest.
Let me know how it works, if you try it!Ah, I never thought of subsidising as a way to help out artisans, it makes sense. I've only lowered tariffs to 5%, it seems to have been good enough now (but I could have saved my artisans from years of hardship a lot earlier
Freedom of Trade is kind of like lifting your country from the "fourth world" to the "third world". Off the top of my head, I think all the "demand increase" which might result is resting on the people, not on the government. If they increase their class or lifestyle they would need to buy more things, but presumably they would have more money.Some informative number-crunching. 'Free Trade' seems to be a must-have technology, given those numbers.
There are two split countries now. Dai Nam is the one you know -- the brownish pieces. The green province by itself near Cambodia is the southern half of Luang Prabang, the northern piece being up next to Hanoi (Dai Nam) in the north.
I am really losing track, now, after a few days, of who is new and who isn't. I hope I don't embarrass myself by welcoming you twice, but Welcome, Dewirix! I do seem to remember saying that before, but just in case...
Yes, the liquor glasses indicate percentage of need-classes fulfilled. Full is good unless you're trying to "game" your Population for manipulative purposes, which sometimes you can do to effect (like to prompt them to switch careers, or something). And Infamy is certainly tighter in Victoria (it was in V1 too, but I never quite cared because by the time I was above my threshold I was powerful enough to take on those who would challenge me -- HARDER to do as a minor unciv
).Well... You're actually only seeing a portion (maybe 60%?) of my Artisans there. Others chose less useful goods, and probably aren't on the list because it was probably sorted for successfulness. It takes more capital, for instance, to become a successful luxury clothing Artisan than it does to become a successful Fabric Artisan, because you need to buy more expensive things. Those who can make it to that level, and sustain it, can do quite well I'm sure. On the other hand, factories (with enough tech levels) can do it much more efficiently, because they have reductions in their input costs and increases in their relative output that Artisans never get. So the harder a good is to make a profit on, the less likely it is an Artisan can succeed long-term (through price and supply fluctuations) when even more advantaged Factories have trouble.
The GOOD news is Artisans don't get stuck producing the same goods. If they are successful with a good, the more likely they are to stick with that good long-term. If they're unsuccessful and fail at producing their chosen good, then they'll try to switch to another. The trick is not using up all your capital so you have the FREEDOM to switch, because if you've failed at one good, you need some startup cash to buy inputs for your new choice. It's possible to get totally stuck and without means to continue as an Artisan. It will take these failed Artisans a while to Demote into something else. I haven't studied long enough to see if there's a way out for them, somehow.
I've been watching Dai Nam closely, and I don't actually see any sign of recovery from their defeat at all. I anticipate a cakewalk...
Well, the goals for this particular war are more economic and territorial than trade-related. As you saw, I got quite an economic boost from acquiring my first conquered territories, and they were making nothing particularly special. These will be the same. I do acquire an additional two Tobacco provinces (if I succeed, which of course I will
), and some other stuff I already have. The one good I'm seeking, which I don't already have, is Cotton -- some of my POPs have a need for Cotton.I'll answer the Catholic question a few responses down, when someone echoes your request...
Thanks! That may very well be the title as it is in the German forum. I don't remember for sure. I'd like to get back to it, but then again I'd like to do alot of things!Hi,
and thank you kindly for your words.
Maybe you should call it "Feuer wärmt die Nordlande" (or "... nördlichen Lande"), but check that with someone whose mothertongue is German.
It still is a great project, and I wish best luck and "alles Gute" both for the translation and for your travel. I guess there're a lot of players (not exclusivly Germans, though) of PI-gamers out there versed without at least a fair English/American/...
Yours,
AdL
P.S. I'm looking forward to Siam introducing some kind of vote in the future. I especially like that feature of V2. A littl' play-test with Hawaii gave me some good insights on votes in general (and on "vote-manipulating"
Voting is an interesting proposition, especially since I'm not certain Thailand has ever had free voting in its history! Perhaps it has, but not sustained. Glad you got to try some "vote manipulation"! Did you happen to reference the Strategy Guide for that, or some other means, or inherent knowledge on your part?
We'll see.You cannot afford quality, so do your best with quantity.
Umm... I've looked and looked, and I assume the answer must be yes. I don't remember researching the Artillery tech, so I must have had it at the game start.So Siam starts with the technology to build artillery? I guess it's fair the Chinese-culture uncivs do at least, after all the Chinese invented it
Thanks, Tmac! Welcome!Cool AAR, subscribed!
Drawing from my imperfect memory of history, I believe French Catholic missionaries have a couple centuries of history in what would later become Vietnam. So they must have planted some Catholic enclaves, which would later become a dominant political force in parts of Vietnam (Mr. and Madam Nhu and/or Diem, if memory serves -- Mr. and Mrs. President).
Not even in Asia, it seems... Welcome, TheShepherd! Any Firefly connotations?You cannot escape the grasp of the Church!
Hmm.... Well, by the game's definition of anarcho-liberals -- basically anti-government types who'd rather be left alone -- I can't imagine they were that uncommon in many societies throughout history. Think of them as Robin Hood types, perhaps.Not too shabby, you're even getting a navy!
Good job cultivating those artisans, by the way.
The anarchists became more common into the 1870s up til about 1920 or so. But I'm sure they existed beforehand, considering that there were religious communes in the US in the 1830s or so. Little known fact which I came upon recently -- did you know Amana appliances and Oneida silverware were both founded upon the communal work factories of early pseudo-crypto-Christian cults? I wonder if maybe we crossed paths commenting on another person's work -- maybe Draco Rexus' King and Country, or perhaps TheHyphenated1 or TheExecuter's AARs? Thanks anyway!
Excellent! Are you going to do an AAR? One thing I've found about AARs is that even if you do the same country as another AAR, it's never the same game. Something is always radically different, just because of the divergent nature of the alt-histories. Welcome, ORiN!
Welcome, Ollobrains! Hmm.... I'm not sure if random events to reduce Infamy would be quite realistic. I've been a student of history for a while, and I'd need to see historical precedent to be willing to have it in the game. Otherwise it would just be an exploit. However, I agree to the extent that I think it should be more randomized and not just a formulaic "I'll reach this level of Infamy on x date and can then do this..." Maybe both Infamy reduction and Infamy GAIN should be randomized!
THAT would introduce a new level of uncertainty to the game. Welcome, Morsky! And thank you very much! It's been my aim to produce something of value such as you suggest!A delightful educational AAR that shows off the new stuff nicely and teaches some strategy to boot. This should be requiAARd reading for every new player, especially people playing uncivs.
You don't know me, but I recall DerKaiser citing you as an inspiration for his AAR, my all time favourite "The Golden Nation". Keep up the good work, sir!
Yes, I miss DerKaiser! I meant to try to follow Golden Nation, but never quite had the time when he was writing it actively. That was an Emperor Norton thing, wasn't it? I actually followed Derkaiser's 84 Years in Vienna more closely, which was almost a counterpart to my Prussia AAR. Perhaps, like TeckoR, he'll show up again now that V2 is out! Last I knew he was knee-deep in college work (Derkaiser, I mean).
Thank you, everybody, for your readership, and especially for your comments! I'll hope to have an update up soon, but it's been quite a distracting week -- Besides working on taxes (I filed an extension, because I was busy with either V2 or HTTT when April 15 rolled by), my wife's car caught on fire yesterday, and so I've been dealing with insurance, as well as trying to find an affordable used car, etc.
So I'll get to an update when I can. Until then....
Rensslaer
Yes, I read the strategy guide, but I've also read what I've found here on the V2-fori/um about it. Especially this (post #42ff), which is a wonderful example of how "first-past-the-post" (or: "winner-takes-it-all") works
.But back to vote-manipulation. In the Hawaii game, I've used an exploit to get "universal" vote and the "Jefferson-method". I learned that when your voters have, say: 5% jingosm before, and you choose "+15% jingoism" (from those "issue-pop-ups" during election), then the result is 5% + 15% = 20%. No other complicated math-formula to use, just add the +Y% from your selection to the starting X% of the voters to get the new value Z%. Hawaii as a "one province-one culture" country was helpful for this littl' (laboratory condition-) experience of mine.
Only one aspect of politics in V2 still is kinda "black box": ideologies.
Yours,
AdL
P.S. This particular feature of V2 interests me, as I once upon a time studied political science.
I love those guys, and all those other religious communes and odd groups. I think I had the opposite experience from you, where I was aware of the religious guys and then found out there were still corporations descended from them.
On to war!
Caption: With friends like these...
Dai Nam gets to go to war without any allies. Not that it would have made much difference, but they could at least have distracted me. As it is, there's nothing in my way.
Dai Nam's northern defenses include, so far as I can see, just the one infantry brigade. It would be so easy for us to just cross the border and dispatch them, but at the same time, what's the point? Our War Aim of conquering Vinhlong (in the south) is easily achievable without even entering the north. It's a relatively inconsequential decision, and I choose to stay put in the north.
We move our small navy into place to blockade the north. THIS is useful, as it automatically builds Warscore.
As we move southward, we find the entire area defenseless and rebel-controlled! There are no troops here because there's noplace left to build them. We engage and destroy the rebels, and continue taking over the provinces as quickly as we can.
Notice in the upper left of the above screenshot, the Dainamese are already trying to convince us to accept a White Peace. Good luck with that.
At this point in the war, we have an Infamy rating of 23 with a threshold of 25 which we don't dare go over. But here's a little bit of neat Diplomatic math...
Only 1.6 Infamy for expanding the war to include Humiliation as a War Aim. Why, you may asK? Dai Nam, after all, has NO Prestige to revoke, so...
But this has an important purpose to it -- we get another 5 Prestige for winning (a sure thing) for precious little cost. I'm just prolonging the war barely, and meanwhile the payoff will be doubled in Prestige, plus the territorial acquisition.
Now watch... Shortly after this, Dai Nam gives us a desperate Peace Offer that's for more than just White Peace. I found myself, as with most of you, probably, tempted to immediately click Proceed (Accept) because they're offering me what I want, right? But I catch myself -- THIS IS NO LONGER WHAT I WANT! I've expanded my War Aims, and so if I were to accept this offer, I would gain 5 Prestige and acquire the Vinhlong State, but I would also suffer -10 Prestige (a 5-point net loss for the war) because I'd failed to achieve my Humiliation Aim. Word to the wise!
As you well know, history stops for no man. We continue to have Events brought to our attention. The "Pressing Concerns" Event offers choices, one of which extends Liberal strength in the Upper House by 10% -- a big deal, if you want it. Since my Militancy is rising, I decide that it's important to get an Upper House who would be willing to enact small Reforms, so I take this brilliant opportunity to steal a march on the Royalists (who also happen to be my chosen Government, but I'm playing a double game so long as it doesn't conflict -- I can keep my Royalist Government even while the Liberals have a majority and are approving Reforms).
So now, after our complete victory, we propose a Peace including both the acquisition of Vinhlong and the Humiliation. Together, these two things provide us with 10 Prestige points for winning the war -- increasing our total Prestige by 50% from 20 to 30! By adding that second, outwardly useless, War Aim, I've doubled our Prestige gain from the war.
This sudden boost in Prestige lifts our previously benighted country onto the first page of the Country Rankings screen! Yes, we're at the very bottom, but for an Asian Unciv it's actually quite impressive. I'm in good company with China and Japan -- the other two Asian Uncivs on the list. And I'm within striking distance of many of these European countries -- in fact, ahead of many of the less powerful ones. Some of them, obviously, are there only by power of Prestige, and for no better reason -- something which can happen, but which is not likely sustainable on the long term, as they won't have the raw military or industrial power to keep their prizes.
You can see from the Production chart that we've definitely got some good, populous, and productive provinces added to our country now.
The Tobacco and Cotton is nice, plus the ever-lucrative grain (because there is universal demand for it). Merely for reference purposes, here's our other Production chart:
We will achieve our second mile-marker on the road to Civilization in June, 1850. Napoleonic Thought will give us the ability to build Forts, and will help us otherwise, militarily.
By the time we achieve that, we will have an additional 5 naval vessels, which are currently under construction. Note the characteristic fluctuations of the Budget Graph which you'll see when you dip into your savings to build big-ticket items like ships (if you have no money, you can still purchase ships on credit, by borrowing from your National Bank or another country -- this is not bad practice, so long as you don't over-borrow).
Lastly, I'll just show you another Event that came up. This Event gives us the opportunity to distinguish ourselves as fellow-travelers with the Europeans, or as reactionary adversaries. It's a great opportunity for flavor in a Roleplaying-style game. For me, choosing to not offend Belgium serves both, my practical goals, and my roleplaying goal. I'm trying to emulate Europe, not setting myself up as their adversary.
Caption: With friends like these...
Dai Nam gets to go to war without any allies. Not that it would have made much difference, but they could at least have distracted me. As it is, there's nothing in my way.
Dai Nam's northern defenses include, so far as I can see, just the one infantry brigade. It would be so easy for us to just cross the border and dispatch them, but at the same time, what's the point? Our War Aim of conquering Vinhlong (in the south) is easily achievable without even entering the north. It's a relatively inconsequential decision, and I choose to stay put in the north.
We move our small navy into place to blockade the north. THIS is useful, as it automatically builds Warscore.
As we move southward, we find the entire area defenseless and rebel-controlled! There are no troops here because there's noplace left to build them. We engage and destroy the rebels, and continue taking over the provinces as quickly as we can.
Notice in the upper left of the above screenshot, the Dainamese are already trying to convince us to accept a White Peace. Good luck with that.
At this point in the war, we have an Infamy rating of 23 with a threshold of 25 which we don't dare go over. But here's a little bit of neat Diplomatic math...
Only 1.6 Infamy for expanding the war to include Humiliation as a War Aim. Why, you may asK? Dai Nam, after all, has NO Prestige to revoke, so...
But this has an important purpose to it -- we get another 5 Prestige for winning (a sure thing) for precious little cost. I'm just prolonging the war barely, and meanwhile the payoff will be doubled in Prestige, plus the territorial acquisition.
Now watch... Shortly after this, Dai Nam gives us a desperate Peace Offer that's for more than just White Peace. I found myself, as with most of you, probably, tempted to immediately click Proceed (Accept) because they're offering me what I want, right? But I catch myself -- THIS IS NO LONGER WHAT I WANT! I've expanded my War Aims, and so if I were to accept this offer, I would gain 5 Prestige and acquire the Vinhlong State, but I would also suffer -10 Prestige (a 5-point net loss for the war) because I'd failed to achieve my Humiliation Aim. Word to the wise!
As you well know, history stops for no man. We continue to have Events brought to our attention. The "Pressing Concerns" Event offers choices, one of which extends Liberal strength in the Upper House by 10% -- a big deal, if you want it. Since my Militancy is rising, I decide that it's important to get an Upper House who would be willing to enact small Reforms, so I take this brilliant opportunity to steal a march on the Royalists (who also happen to be my chosen Government, but I'm playing a double game so long as it doesn't conflict -- I can keep my Royalist Government even while the Liberals have a majority and are approving Reforms).
So now, after our complete victory, we propose a Peace including both the acquisition of Vinhlong and the Humiliation. Together, these two things provide us with 10 Prestige points for winning the war -- increasing our total Prestige by 50% from 20 to 30! By adding that second, outwardly useless, War Aim, I've doubled our Prestige gain from the war.
This sudden boost in Prestige lifts our previously benighted country onto the first page of the Country Rankings screen! Yes, we're at the very bottom, but for an Asian Unciv it's actually quite impressive. I'm in good company with China and Japan -- the other two Asian Uncivs on the list. And I'm within striking distance of many of these European countries -- in fact, ahead of many of the less powerful ones. Some of them, obviously, are there only by power of Prestige, and for no better reason -- something which can happen, but which is not likely sustainable on the long term, as they won't have the raw military or industrial power to keep their prizes.
You can see from the Production chart that we've definitely got some good, populous, and productive provinces added to our country now.
The Tobacco and Cotton is nice, plus the ever-lucrative grain (because there is universal demand for it). Merely for reference purposes, here's our other Production chart:
We will achieve our second mile-marker on the road to Civilization in June, 1850. Napoleonic Thought will give us the ability to build Forts, and will help us otherwise, militarily.
By the time we achieve that, we will have an additional 5 naval vessels, which are currently under construction. Note the characteristic fluctuations of the Budget Graph which you'll see when you dip into your savings to build big-ticket items like ships (if you have no money, you can still purchase ships on credit, by borrowing from your National Bank or another country -- this is not bad practice, so long as you don't over-borrow).
Lastly, I'll just show you another Event that came up. This Event gives us the opportunity to distinguish ourselves as fellow-travelers with the Europeans, or as reactionary adversaries. It's a great opportunity for flavor in a Roleplaying-style game. For me, choosing to not offend Belgium serves both, my practical goals, and my roleplaying goal. I'm trying to emulate Europe, not setting myself up as their adversary.
I don't think uncivilized nations can become great powers, so China would have to westernise first.
Speaking of which, how far is Siam towards becoming a civilized nation?
Nice update! Regarding your question, I don't intend to do an AAR as I did not take any screenshots when I started. Currently, my Siam game already took out Dai Name, Burma Rangoon and Haka as well as Chinese Yunnan. I did not managed to take Burma as a whole as UK declared war on them while I was recovering from my high infamy. China is being taken apart in my game as UK and Russia took chunks away. I mildly took advantage of a Russian-Chinese war and took Yunnan for Siam. I am eyeing Guangxi and Ganzhou next once the truce ends.
I see a common cause behind these rebels and events. The rebels in Dai Viet were revanchists attempting to destroy the corrupt Vietnamese government, and regain the lands you have taken for the glorious fatherland. These elite liberals in your government, while patriotically wishing a large Siam but disturbed at the aforementioned rebellion, also want to bring rights to the minorities in the newly conquered lands to pacifiy them. They have written to the Belgian Scholarly Union asking for ideological and financial support, and les Belgiques have approached the invitation as they see fit.
