alright in that case, please make a thread about that so people will see the topic and go"hey i want to join that CAL against PI
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I'd love to join in your righteous lawsuit, as I too have suffered a crippling loss of quality of life due to this game being released as it was, but Paradox would probably ban me for throwing around the G word since this is my only forum account. Which means I wouldn't be able to see when patch 1.3 arrives.
So I'm afraid you might have to go this alone
With regards to business practise.
I am curious as to whether PI wanted HOI3 to become ' mainstream' by adding the AI control ?
This seems to be why it was added. If they were happy for HOI to remain the province of the ' intelligent ' gamer then they wouldnt have bothered IMO.
If they did mean it to become a game for the mainstream market then a couple of points.
1.. As the AI is having to be fixed by mods then the effort involved to get it modded already rules out most of the mainstream
2.. Releasing it when they did ( needing many patches ) , also rules out a chunk of the mainstream who have no ideas ( or very little ) when it comes to patching games.
They just expect it to ' work '.
I am curious as to whether PI wanted HOI3 to become ' mainstream' by adding the AI control ?
This seems to be why it was added. If they were happy for HOI to remain the province of the ' intelligent ' gamer then they wouldnt have bothered IMO.
If they did mean it to become a game for the mainstream market then a couple of points.
1.. As the AI is having to be fixed by mods then the effort involved to get it modded already rules out most of the mainstream
2.. Releasing it when they did ( needing many patches ) , also rules out a chunk of the mainstream who have no ideas ( or very little ) when it comes to patching games.
They just expect it to ' work '.
Umm, one interesting thing that perhaps you are not aware of is that in the US it is pretty common for "class action" lawsuits to be filed on behalf of consumers, even over products that individually cost very little. The purpose of the class action is to collect all of the "class" of individuals "damaged" by a product into one group so that they can be represented in court collectively, and damages can be awarded to the entire group. I have frequently been party to class action lawsuits, none of which I filed, but all of which were filed by others who, in their minds at least, were protecting me from "big business".
I don't think you understand how class action lawsuits work, at least not in the US. You don't need to get other users to "band together" to file one. I have been involved in several class action lawsuits and was never contacted in advance about whether or not I wanted to participate, until the case was in motion. Once a case is filed you can choose to join with it, or choose to not join with it, but whether or not you personally choose to join the class action doesn't stop the suit. Then there have been class action lawsuits that I was party to that I was never asked to join or not join, but I still got the benefit of the damages that were awarded. Not being a legal specialist I'm not going to try and explain the differences, but if you want to start a class action lawsuit against PI go right ahead. However, choose where you file. I think the law here in Texas is that if you lose the case you pay for the defense's lawyers!
This is how a U.S. class action works:
A lawyer finds one "lead plaintiff" to filed the suit on behalf of a class of individuals. The people in the proposed class must be injured similarly and proving their case must involve proving one common set of facts. The purpose of a class is to save time and resources -- proving the case once instead of dozens of times when each trial would essentially be the same.
The judge must then decide whether to "certify" the class. Meaning the judge decides whether the proposed class meets the legal definition -- essentially whether the case can be proved by one set of facts, or if each case turns on separate and distrinct facts. Certification usually involves a big legal hearing.
Often, different lawyers representing different proposed lead plaintiffs compete to run the lawsuit. The judge must then pick one to be the lead.
Anyone who meets the class definition is then part of the lawsuit. They don't have to do anything but sit back. But they are bound by the outcome of the suit -- if it loses, that's it, you can't sue again yourself. Therefore, the class lawyer has to actually contact everyone in the class to tell them about the suit, and each plaintiff has the option to opt out of it. If you don't opt out, you're in.
After the trial, if you win every plaintiff who didn't opt out gets his share of the damages. In practice, what usually happens is the lawyer settles the case with the company. They decide to give everyone coupons or something (because they cost the company less than actual money) and the lawyer gets paid a third of the face value. Because the lawyer doesn't have a live client, he usually has an incentive to sell them out in this way. The judge has to then sign off on the settlement as fair, which they usually do.
The bottom line is class actions are very expensive. They involve extra legal hearings and hoops. They also involve paying to actually contact everyone affected -- such as by sending them all letters. The lawyer is usually operating on a contingency fee, so he doesn't get anything unless he wins, but can make a lot of it does. So lawyers don't bring these cases unless they think they have a great case becuase it costs the lawyer millions of dollars to bring, so they can lose a lot of money if they lose.
What I'm saying is -- people shouldn't just throw around charges of suing paradox . Go see a lawyer and see what he tells you about taking your case.
A lawyer finds one "lead plaintiff" to filed the suit on behalf of a class of individuals. The people in the proposed class must be injured similarly and proving their case must involve proving one common set of facts. The purpose of a class is to save time and resources -- proving the case once instead of dozens of times when each trial would essentially be the same.
The judge must then decide whether to "certify" the class. Meaning the judge decides whether the proposed class meets the legal definition -- essentially whether the case can be proved by one set of facts, or if each case turns on separate and distrinct facts. Certification usually involves a big legal hearing.
Often, different lawyers representing different proposed lead plaintiffs compete to run the lawsuit. The judge must then pick one to be the lead.
Anyone who meets the class definition is then part of the lawsuit. They don't have to do anything but sit back. But they are bound by the outcome of the suit -- if it loses, that's it, you can't sue again yourself. Therefore, the class lawyer has to actually contact everyone in the class to tell them about the suit, and each plaintiff has the option to opt out of it. If you don't opt out, you're in.
After the trial, if you win every plaintiff who didn't opt out gets his share of the damages. In practice, what usually happens is the lawyer settles the case with the company. They decide to give everyone coupons or something (because they cost the company less than actual money) and the lawyer gets paid a third of the face value. Because the lawyer doesn't have a live client, he usually has an incentive to sell them out in this way. The judge has to then sign off on the settlement as fair, which they usually do.
The bottom line is class actions are very expensive. They involve extra legal hearings and hoops. They also involve paying to actually contact everyone affected -- such as by sending them all letters. The lawyer is usually operating on a contingency fee, so he doesn't get anything unless he wins, but can make a lot of it does. So lawyers don't bring these cases unless they think they have a great case becuase it costs the lawyer millions of dollars to bring, so they can lose a lot of money if they lose.
What I'm saying is -- people shouldn't just throw around charges of suing paradox . Go see a lawyer and see what he tells you about taking your case.
When I read this I snorted beer out my nose, which shorted out my keyboard, mouse, and monitor, said beer dripped through the table onto the carpet, ruining it. I alternated laughing, coughing and crying until the adrenaline ran down my legs ruining a cheap pair of shorts, a fake-leather chair, said carpet, and a priceless collection of porn magazines. shortly thereafter I lost consciousness and came to in the life-star helicopter on the way to the hospital.
Warlord, would you please post your full name, address, social security number and #'s and contents of your bank accounts, also a certified estimate of your lawsuit proceeds as I see no recourse but to sue you for the damages, personal suffering and medical expenses that your post has created.
Excuse me? Anyone who says they've had little or no problems is speaking "nonsense"? Everyone who enjoys the game is a liar, then? Your post is so staggeringly arrogant and devoid of even the slightest hint of empathy or comprehension (which, ironically, you see as lacking in others) that it is mind-boggling to read.
I do have some self-respect. It's why I'm not acting like a whiney child because something doesn't work exactly the way it should. And our human rights are being trodden on? Seriously? I want you to sit back and think about that for a second. Really, seriously think about it.
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This thread is turning into comedy gold.
Too bad Vulture will close it tommorow morning (well, this morning in Europe since it is already morning there).
Too bad Vulture will close it tommorow morning (well, this morning in Europe since it is already morning there).
Mhmm, unlike what you first believed, all men are indeed equal. You always learn something along the way, don't you?
Which, quite frankly, is something some people around here aimed for right from the start, right? I mean, really - those who feel that they've got some complaint to present have got one single thread to do it in, but not even this is acceptable to some. Oh well, to be honest I can't say I am surprised, based on some of the posts I've read lately.
You've caused me emotional and mental damage with your inane trolling. Prepare to hear from my lawyer.
Given that most of the most offensive comments have come from people complaining about the game, including several people who have openly attacked the moderators, your argument here makes no sense. Besides which, for those of us who have problems and genuinely want them resolved, there are the Tech Support and Bug Report forums. I have used to both to work out every serious problem I've had with this game.
As Vulture predicted, it was basically just a matter of time - he was off with quite a bit, but yeah, eventually some elements will make some efforts to spoil things for others.
What problems? On what grounds can you sue? Fraud. Prove intent or that there was a conspiracy. Where is the lack of good faith as they have already provided two (three if you count the hotfix) patches. They have even requested that users submit bug reports AND have stated publicly they will refund any who wish one.
Yes, I know this is wasted on you as it is clear what your true intent is so as Andy Warhol pointed out, enjoy your fifteen minutes and thank you for being the squeaky wheel which closed a good thread.
Though, your idea of sueing has given me an idea. Given how my blood pressure has risen to dangerously high levels, I think I will take a page out of the same book and bring a suit against the Roman Catholic Church as they are against contraceptive devices.
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It sometimes happens in forums that a particular post gets redirected to another thread, such as a technical support thread, or an OT thread. I sometimes think it would be socially valuable for game companies with forums like this to have an open thread hosted by Eliza. People could use that thread voluntarily, but in some cases their posts could justifiably be redirected there by responsible moderators.
I am not a Catholic, but this was quite plainly in bad taste. As you're suggesting yourself - grow up.
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