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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #115 - Graveyard of Empires

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Hello. This is Victoria, and today I will be covering the remainder of the Great Game-themed narrative content which is coming in Sphere of Influence and its accompanying update.

To avoid any confusion, I would like to clarify that none of the narrative content shown in this diary, nor the last diary, is gated behind the Great Game objective. The Great Game objective provides objective subgoals which grant points for certain journal entries and a score tracker which interfaces with much of this content for a more focused experience–it is not required to experience this content. All content within this diary, unless specified otherwise, is available both in sandbox mode or during the course of any objective.

Afghanistan

Afghanistan in 1836 is far from a united land. The slow collapse of the Durrani Empire has left it in a state of civil war for decades, with the primary claimants to the throne forming fiefdoms centred in Herat, Kabul, and Kandahar. In addition to this unfortunate internal situation, the Afghan states find themselves menaced by Persia’s expansionist ambitions from the West, the encroaching British East India Company from the East, and Russian influence from the North.

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All Afghan states start with the Afghan Reunification Journal Entry active. Whilst the primary contenders for reunifying Afghanistan are Herat, Kandahar, and Kabul, the minor khanates of Maimana and Kunduz also have this available, allowing for the formation of an Afghanistan under an Uzbek Khan.

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This journal entry allows all Afghan contenders to appeal to either Russia or Britain for military and diplomatic support in reunifying Afghanistan. If the relevant Great Power approves the contender’s request, they will be more inclined to support said contenders in diplomatic plays, and the contender will receive military bonuses in return for an obligation.

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Once unified, a freshly formed Afghanistan may choose to either pursue additional claims on Pashtun and Tajik homelands, at the cost of infamy, or stop its expansion whilst it’s ahead.

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Afghanistan’s unification content will be available to all players in the free update accompanying the release of Sphere of Influence.

Persia

Persia in 1836 is a country swelling with expansionist ambitions. The newly enthroned Mohammad Shah has consolidated his power, and wishes to annex the Principality of Herat as part of a grand ambition that would unify the Persian-speaking populace of Afghanistan with Persia and extend Persian influence throughout Central Asia.

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In Sphere of Influence, these expansionist ambitions are represented through the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry. This journal entry provides the tools needed to realise Persia’s expansionist interests, with buttons for approaching either Russia or Britain, as well as gaining claims on the remainder of Central Asia under certain conditions..

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If Persia occupies Herat, Britain will be warned, and will have the opportunity to demand that Persia withdraw from the region. If Britain sends the demand and Persia chooses to back down, this will represent a major humiliation setback in its expansionist ambitions. If Persia refuses to back down, Britain will become much more hostile towards Persia, and represent a major impediment to its future efforts.

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While expanding North and East, Persia will encounter the massive slave markets of Turkmenia and Uzbekistan, and be faced with the need to either free the slaves or allow them to remain in captivity.

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Additionally, Persia will have the opportunity to restore the great city of Merv, formerly one of the largest cities in the world before its desolation by Tolui Khan.

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If Persia is successfully able to complete this Journal Entry, it is almost certain to become a major power in its own right–one that may be able to become recognised, expel both Russia and Britain from Central Asia, and force an end to the Great Game.

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The above content for Persia is available for all owners of the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Korea

Korea, despite being far from Central Asia, was not untouched by the Great Game. In the mid-to-late nineteenth century, it began feeling the effects of European influence, causing unrest among the intellectual class and the peasantry. The philosophy of Donghak, or Eastern Learning, was intended to present a path to establishing a democratic and egalitarian society in Korea whilst simultaneously refusing encroachment by foreign powers.

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To represent Korea’s isolation from the world during this period of the Joseon Dynasty, Korea has been given the Isolationism law at game start. Once this law is replaced by a different trade law, a sufficient degree of turmoil builds up, and the effects of foreign influence begin to be felt in Korea, a new journal entry will appear. The Donghak Movement journal entry represents the hybrid religious-political peasant movements that occurred in Korea around the late 19th century. Whilst it is active, revolutions involving the Rural Folk will be greatly strengthened.

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There are two paths to removing the threat of a peasant rebellion–reducing the amount of radicals in Korea to a manageable level, or completing the demands that the movement offers the government. Whilst the Donghak movement is active, they may issue a petition to the government, demanding that Korea go back into isolation, permit religious tolerance, and reduce the power of the Yangban. Accepting the petition will please the Rural Folk and decrease the threat of imminent revolution, but failing to meet its demands within the time allotted will make the situation endlessly worse.

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If a movement involving the Rural Folk becomes revolutionary, the Journal Entry will fail, and massively escalate both the radicalism of the movement and the progress of the revolution. What would formerly have been mere civil unrest will transform into a near-guaranteed civil war–one which could run the risk of a foreign intervention which would be disastrous for Korea.

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If Korea has a civil war whilst a subject of China, China will be inclined to come to the defence of its loyal government–but a modernised Japan may also be inclined to intervene, and be much less predictable in its allegiance.

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As a bonus, Korea has also had several events pertaining to the Joseon monarchy added, allowing for the appearance of characters such as Gojong and the Empress Myeongseong.

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This content for Korea is available for all players who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

The Caucasus

In Sphere of Influence, both of Russia’s opponents in the Caucasian War–Circassia and the Caucasian Imamate–receive journal entries to represent their role in the conflict. In the case of Circassia, this journal entry is completed by expelling the Russians from Kuban and achieving the borders claimed by the Circassian parliament.

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Upon either the expiration of the truce between Circassia and Russia–or Russia’s escalation of the war using its Caucasian War journal entry–Circassia receives an event representing the historical Parliament of Independence in 1861. This event offers the opportunity to either focus on modernising the military in preparation for a Russian invasion, or appealing to foreign powers for recognition and support.

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Foreign powers with an interest in the Caucasus region will receive the option to offer recognition to Circassia upon the conclusion of its war with Russia, as well as becoming more inclined to support it in a defensive war.

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The Caucasian Imamate has also received a journal entry covering its struggle for independence. Its attached modifier grants the Imamate benefits in terms of morale and defence on states it owns.

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Once Circassia’s starting leaders have died, the Imamate may use this journal entry to dispatch a leader to Circassia, fostering a formal alliance between both states.

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If the Imamate and Circassia reverse the course of their wars and expel Russian influence from the North Caucasus, the Russian government will no longer have the ability to exert influence within the region. It will be forced to either try to maintain its administration through a storm of radicalism, or pull out from the region. Depending on the social technologies that Russia has unlocked, the collapse of the Caucasus may take the form of the restoration of some of its traditional kingdoms, the appearance of modern nation-states, or the establishment of a unified Transcaucasia.

Pictured: The third option is unlocked by the Nationalism technology, and the fourth by Pan-Nationalism.
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Pictured: The result of the first option.

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Content for the Caucasian Imamate and Circassia is available to those who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Earning Recognition

The “Earning Recognition” Journal Entry permits an unrecognised major power to work towards the status of recognised nation. This journal entry replaces the currently existing Force Recognition wargoal–whilst defeating the Great Powers in wars still benefits an unrecognised nation immensely, it is not a one-and-done path to being regarded as an equal.

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Conditions which benefit the cause of recognition include defeating Great or Major powers in wars, having high vital statistics such as GDP per capita, standard of living, and literacy, enacting voting rights, and using the new Request Embassy diplomatic action on Great Powers.

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The Request Embassy Diplomatic Action is unique to this journal entry, and permits for requesting embassies in Great Powers. Each Great Power that is willing to accept an embassy will raise the progress towards Recognised status by 10%.

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Conditions which harm the cause of recognition include having poor vital economic indicators, being defeated in a war, and having certain regressive laws that demonstrate one’s nation to be an unreliable business partner.

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Earning Recognition will be available to all players as a part of the free update 1.7.

And that is all. Thank you for reading. Next week, Max will cover the new art of Sphere of Influence.
 
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Hello
First of all, as an Iranian (Persian) I appreciate the work you put in so far in Persia Region
Secondly, there are some changes to Persia that make it more realistic that I made a private mod for myself but from all of the changes I made in my mod, there are 2 Important changes that are not that hard to put in-game :
1. Iranians (Persian) are culturally closer to Pakistani Afghan Tajik than Arabs so what I do is simply change the Middle Eastern heritage tag to Central Asian heritage (the correct change would be to add an Iranian heritage to the game that would include Baluch Pashtun Hazara Afghan Tajik Turkman Uzbek and even Kashmiri (Kashmir unofficial name is little Persia) to it and also have the central Asian heritage that includes Mongols Kazakh Kirghiz Tajik Uzbek Turkman Pashtun)
2. Iran has always been Iran and Persia is the Western name of Iran so the change would be after recognition Persia becomes Iran also some provinces are named according to how Arabs had called them in the previous century, for example, Irak-e-Ajami is an insult to Iranians (Ajam was used by Arabs to say that Arabs are better than Iranians which meant "Mute") so the correct name would be Ray or Tehran and also you changed Khuzestan to Arabistan which is again a name that Arabs used to say that they have somehow a claim on that region the correct name would be Khuzestan

Some other changes that might take a little bit more effort would be the inclusion of some historical characters like Mirza Taqi Khan, known as Amir Kabir (prime minister under Nasir al-Din Shah, r.1848–96), who embarks on a state-sponsored program of military, financial, and educational reform, most importantly the establishment of Iran’s first modern institution of higher learning (not religious schools), the Dar al-Funun, in 1851


I just read this up and it is rather interesting.- So the idea of getting recognized enabling the switch from Persia to Iran would be from the western historical viewpoint, but when playing as Iran it should always be called Iran. But every diplomatic encounter with western countries should refer to you as Persia - Also somebody write up the HoI team that in the 1934 start Iran should also be named Persia until the 1935 Event. :D
 
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I don't like it, first of all, I would prefer global mechanics based on POP, possibly creating additional narratives or developing them into more specific national liberation movements for a given country/nation, or the rivalry of great powers based on giving something in return, common understanding or friction.
 
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Are there any plans to release a beta version?

I think it would be difficult to include the contents of Sphere of Influence, so I would like the contents of the version 1.7 update to be released as a beta.
This should greatly improve bugs and game balancing issues.
I think this is a good suggestion, because I agree that it would reduce bugs and game balance issues when the patch went live. But PDS very rarely, if ever, have Open Betas for patches that are accompanied by a DLC. I suspect this is mainly because of the complexity of maintaining an Open Beta build that is completely separate from the DLC assets and script. The Paradox DLC model means that the two are normally intermingled. Perhaps they are worried that if they released an Open Beta with the DLC assets present but disabled, it would be an open invitation to piracy, since the pirates would have a temporary period of exclusivity. If that is a worry, then I think that it's an unnecessary one: it's just so much easier to buy games on Steam that essentially everybody who would ever consider buying it would wait. But I would undrstand if no one wants to be the first to take the risk.
I think that bugs may occur in the contents of SoI, so pure 1.7 would be kinda fine, let alone that they get nearly 2 more months to debug.
There is not going to be a beta for 1.7 or SoI.
It's a lot of work for us to maintain a beta and to make actual use of it too. In order to make use of the feedback you are providing, we need to read it, evaluate it, document it and put it into action. All of this takes time.
Even if we wanted to create a beta, now would also be way too late to start one. Usually you want to lock a build that is stable well in advance of a release to ensure you have something ready to go. Any time you have after you lock that build, you usually spend on fixing issues which you can then release in an optional day 1 patch. So we don't really have 6 weeks anymore before release :)
And as you mentioned, separating the 1.7 content from the SoI content would only make this harder if you're not prepared for this from the get-go.
If we decide to do another beta for a future update, it has to be planned well in advance and then you will also hear about it well in advance.
 
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I'm pretty sure 99% of that impression is simply due to the unnatural quality of the lighting. I once had a look at the character editor, and the models actually look good!

It's only once the lighting is added that they seem weird:

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It looks as if there is a harsh light source aimed at the character's forehead, creating the blown-out part there as well as the shadows at the cheeks - which one might mistake for a five o'clock shadow. It is reminiscent of the lighting used in many Films Noirs (or, if you will, the early days of the pandemic, when everybody started using zoom with only a normal desk lamp aimed at their face).

These contrasty portraits suggest a single light source pointed at the forehead [EDIT: looking again, there's probably one light source at 11 o'clock high and another one at 3-5 o'clock high or so - but the main point still stands], which feels unnatural for the time frame of the game (with the exception of coal miners, maybe!).

Some fill lights, a virtual softbox or maybe moving the virtual light source further away would go a long way in making the portraits more natural.
Hey there :)
We agree that the lighting is not great and we have a task on our plate for after 1.7 to take a look at this. I cannot give you an exact timeline at this point, but we are aware of it.
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions for tutorial countries by the way :)
We are looking at Siam and Dai Nam as candidates! So it might very well end up being one of them (or not, not making any promises at this point).
 
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That sounds great, but how exactly would we model it so that Japan naturally industrializes and modernizes as a general mechanic, while also making sure that it doesn't extend too far with every other Asian/African nation all industrializing too?
Rewrite the condition of Meiji JE I think. The present condition is kinda too hard for AI to utilize.

I don't like it, first of all, I would prefer global mechanics based on POP, possibly creating additional narratives or developing them into more specific national liberation movements for a given country/nation, or the rivalry of great powers based on giving something in return, common understanding or friction.
3 or less yrs after, a player as Britain may need to be familar with feature contents of all tags, otherwise they may get beaten by whatever unknown factors.
 
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So we don't really have 6 weeks anymore before release
Good luck. Game directors of other games have already written some reflections themselves personally, but there are still time for you guys to save your Head from extra community labour. xD


Pictured: The result of the first option.
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Content for the Caucasian Imamate and Circassia is available to those who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.
Any map rework on Caucasian states? And I'm kinda interested in these three new tags: can K-K form Georgia?
 
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Can we get new formables ? I think something that has been lacking in vic3 all this time is more formables. Both historical and alt history.
Same with releasable countries.

Like you have an entire tab dedicated to formables yet have so little ! It's something that is mostly flavor and do not mess with the balance of the game mostly.

Slavia, magreb, (please change Iberian flag),Hispania, zapadoslavia etc
 
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Thank you Paradox for fixing the Sikh Empires borders but could you make Bawalpur a British puppet as it was. Also please change the word for prince. Currently it is Yuvraj. Yuvraj is a Hindi word not Punjabi. It is shehzada (Don't use this spelling.) Another request is for more provinces over all for smaller counties as it is hard to raise larger armies. I also noticed a county called Chitral. Can you please send me the information about that county.
 
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Why does Choe Je-u look like this? He has short hair and no facial hair. Short, western-style hair like this wasn't exactly common until the Kabo reforms attempted to Westernize and reform the country by attempting to mandate short hair and cutting off the topknot (sangtu). Given that Choe Je-u was the founder of the explicitly anti-foreign Donghak movement, it makes zero sense for him to wear the West's hairstyle. The one thing Paradox does get right is him being dressed in traditional hanbok.
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The various depictions of Choe Je-u have him traditionally portrayed a bearded man wearing a traditional hat. While these depictions were drawn a few decades after his death, they are more accurate in the way they depict the individual. I hope Paradox can take this into consideration, as well as the issues with the lighting that others have pointed out.
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As a Persia enjoyer I very much approve of this! If they also make international trade actually happen (so you don't need to own iron+coal+sulfur+lead RGOs to industrialize and can run an export economy) I might redownload the game.

Also, a Persia that becomes a recognized major power should get a journal entry to retake Transcaucasia from Russia.
 
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I've seen that Persia is going to have claims on parts of the Caucasus, but it is still very strange to me there's nothing more than that given all the alt-history outcomes added here and Persia only losing this territory within the past few decades by 1836.
 
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Great to see unrecognized countries getting some flavour! However, is there any chance Japan gets some flavour too in the upcoming update/DLC? Japan's on it's way to become a great power in Asia (the conquest of Korea, Manchuria etc.), I think Japan deserves some love as well.
 
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I'd say there's a few examples:
- Japan, of course, was "recognized" after beating Russia in a war, but already it had become a major industrial power that was relatively well-regarded by Europeans.
- Egypt: it will ultimately become a British protectorate and lose Sudan, but Egypt's fall into colonialism looks very different than what we saw in other parts of Africa and the Middle East, with a lot more respect for the Egyptian central government which remained at least nominally independent.
- Ethiopia: by the 30s, Ethiopia's invasion by Italy would be widely decried as other nations recognized its independence.
- Latin America: despite a few foreign interventions (eg., France installing Maximilian I in Mexico), we didn't see subjugation of Latin American states by foreign powers. Even take Panama as an example, which was made independent from Colombia but not treated as a colony.

Contrast that with China, where territory was forcibly extracted, or the West African countries who were conquered with at most nominal excuses. The politics looked very different in how European nations treated them.

This is so dumb and such a shocking case of history rewriting.

Colonization of Egypt was barely different from Morrocco & Tunisia where the nominal rulers were preserved too while the actual rule was enforced by the diplomatic services of the colonizing power.

China had very little territory "extracted". Save for a few cities. A scenario which happened to multiple countries across multiple continents including ... Morocco with Tangers.

I am in full agreement with the points raised by users such as Froonk. It is both bad for gameplay and thematically wrong to portrait imperialist powers as benevolent forces who will respect other countries independence if their economy runs reasonably well. Even the sentence is simply absurd.
 
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This is so dumb and such a shocking case of history rewriting.

Colonization of Egypt was barely different from Morrocco & Tunisia where the nominal rulers were preserved too while the actual rule was enforced by the diplomatic services of the colonizing power.

China had very little territory "extracted". Save for a few cities. A scenario which happened to multiple countries across multiple continents including ... Morocco with Tangers.

I am in full agreement with the points raised by users such as Froonk. It is both bad for gameplay and thematically wrong to portrait imperialist powers as benevolent forces who will respect other countries independence if their economy runs reasonably well. Even the sentence is simply absurd.
We don't have to argue that Great Powers are benevolent. At the same time, the British public did not have an appetite for brazen wars of conquest: see the lively debates in the press and parliament about the lead-up to the first Opium War or criticism of their role in various other conflicts. France was more brazen (especially in Vietnam and Mexico) and Prussia moreso, but Britain would have been upset to see Egypt or Japan lose a territory by force.

We can certainly disagree on Egypt's autonomy. I would argue that Egypt was "recognized" in the mid-1800s, with Muhammad Ali's aggressive modernization. By the 1880s, Egypt was struggling with a softening economy, foreign debt, and a rebellious Sudan. They invited Britain in to help suppress that turmoil, and in exchange they received an (arguably mutual beneficial) agreement: lots of British investment at better rates, in exchange for British troops and British control in Sudan. Egypt was definitely aligned with Britain, but then so was Portugal or France by that point. And I don't see a fundamental difference here than if a foreign power intervened on the Union's behalf during the US Civil War in exchange for greater influence.

"Recognition" is not a guarantee of sovereignty. No one would deny Mexico was "recognized" and yet France installed a foreign monarch. America fought a rather brazen war and stole overseas territory from Spain. The point is rather that there are more obstacles to successfully subjugating a recognized power: conquering Dahomey should look different from conquering Greece.
 
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It is both bad for gameplay and thematically wrong to portrait imperialist powers as benevolent forces who will respect other countries independence if their economy runs reasonably well. Even the sentence is simply absurd.
Good thing nobody is saying this then. Again, the people arguing against this new path to recognition keep acting like recognition should make imperial powers ignore you and never try to invade or establish power over you which is just a complete misunderstanding of what recognition in the game is.
 
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We don't have to argue that Great Powers are benevolent. At the same time, the British public did not have an appetite for brazen wars of conquest: see the lively debates in the press and parliament about the lead-up to the first Opium War or criticism of their role in various other conflicts. France was more brazen (especially in Vietnam and Mexico) and Prussia moreso, but Britain would have been upset to see Egypt or Japan lose a territory by force.

We can certainly disagree on Egypt's autonomy. I would argue that Egypt was "recognized" in the mid-1800s, with Muhammad Ali's aggressive modernization. By the 1880s, Egypt was struggling with a softening economy, foreign debt, and a rebellious Sudan. They invited Britain in to help suppress that turmoil, and in exchange they received an (arguably mutual beneficial) agreement: lots of British investment at better rates, in exchange for British troops and British control in Sudan. Egypt was definitely aligned with Britain, but then so was Portugal or France by that point. And I don't see a fundamental difference here than if a foreign power intervened on the Union's behalf during the US Civil War in exchange for greater influence.

"Recognition" is not a guarantee of sovereignty. No one would deny Mexico was "recognized" and yet France installed a foreign monarch. America fought a rather brazen war and stole overseas territory from Spain. The point is rather that there are more obstacles to successfully subjugating a recognized power: conquering Dahomey should look different from conquering Greece.

This is a big mass of nonsense but whatever.

I dont even get why are you talking about France being more "brazen" toward Vietnam or Mexico. What does a nation being "Brazen" even mean ? The lack of political debate ? Do you realize France was not a liberal country under Napoleon III ?

I dont see why invading Dahomey should be different. If you are suggesting the colonial occupation and exploitation should be different or at least have multiple forms possible, that's fine. But it is an entirely different subject.

And I think it is precisely the big issue since colonization as the phenomenon characterising Western Imperialism in 19th and 20th century was multiforme and defied simplistic definitions through institutional status.


Good thing nobody is saying this then. Again, the people arguing against this new path to recognition keep acting like recognition should make imperial powers ignore you and never try to invade or establish power over you which is just a complete misunderstanding of what recognition in the game is.
And what is recognition exactly ? If you say integration to the European Concert, well I have a bad news for you, it was independent from economy, literacy or "development".

In fact I have worse news for you, most European nations were not even included either.

And by the way, I think one of the core issue with how colonization takes place in Vic 3 is actually balance and walkthrough speed. As player we dont have the time to go through all the bickering and multilateral diplomacy between Europeans powers as they both rivalled against one another yet cooperated to dominate the rest of the world.

though I guess this is just how this game is. For most players including average/mediocre like me, we dont do much expect try to build our construction loop and extend our tax base and bang, it is already nearly 1900 and most of the world have been conquered/colonized by AI GB or AI France.
 
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This is a big mass of nonsense but whatever.

I dont even get why are you talking about France being more "brazen" toward Vietnam or Mexico. What does a nation being "Brazen" even mean ? The lack of political debate ? Do you realize France was not a liberal country under Napoleon III ?

I dont see why invading Dahomey should be different. If you are suggesting the colonial occupation and exploitation should be different or at least have multiple forms possible, that's fine. But it is an entirely different subject.

And I think it is precisely the big issue since colonization as the phenomenon characterising Western Imperialism in 19th and 20th century was multiforme and defied simplistic definitions through institutional status.



And what is recognition exactly ? If you say integration to the European Concert, well I have a bad news for you, it was independent from economy, literacy or "development".

In fact I have worse news for you, most European nations were not even included either.

And by the way, I think one of the core issue with how colonization takes place in Vic 3 is actually balance and walkthrough speed. As player we dont have the time to go through all the bickering and multilateral diplomacy between Europeans powers as they both rivalled against one another yet cooperated to dominate the rest of the world.

though I guess this is just how this game is. For most players including average/mediocre like me, we dont do much expect try to build our construction loop and extend our tax base and bang, it is already nearly 1900 and most of the world have been conquered/colonized by AI GB or AI France.
You seem to just not understand what recognition means in this game
 
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