It's finally time to announce the next expansion for Crusader Kings II! You might already know the name: "Sons of Abraham". Some of you were very close in your guesses on what it might be. No, it's not a Zombie DLC! Sons of Abraham focuses on the three Abrahamic religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism. The idea was to go back to the roots after all the attention given to the heathens, and to flesh out the religious side of the game for the monotheists; Christians in particular.

First and foremost, we wanted to do more with the Pope; how he gets elected, what powers he has and how you can gain his favor. Thus, we added the Cardinal title and the College of Cardinals. For simplicity's sake, there are only nine cardinals, and the Pope is always elected from among their number. Cardinals, however, are not elected; they are picked by the Pope from among his courtiers and the bishops of Europe. The selection is based on many factors; age, piety, opinion, culture (the Pope really likes Italians!), etc.



So, how exactly do you get your man onto the chair of Saint Peter? Well, the Holy See is not a democracy, so this is not a direct process. First, you need at least one of your bishops to get appointed Cardinal by the Holy Father. Fortunately, you do not have to rely entirely on the character of the bishop himself, you can grease the machinery with a bit of lucre by putting money in the campaign fund (similar to how Doges are elected in Merchant Republics). Of course, it is also possible to carefully groom a candidate for a career in the Catholic church before you even make him a bishop.

When the Pope dies, the cardinals in turn elect his successor. This process cannot be directly influenced by the player, but the cardinals will reason much like the Pope does when he picks new cardinals, so it's better to have old, pious men made cardinals than incompetent wastrels whose election you paid for.



Ok, so let us say one of your bishops is eventually made Pope. How does that serve you? Well, Popes that come from your realm will like you - a lot. Of course, that means they will be likely to grant your requests. Want to get divorced? No problem. Want to invade someone? Ok. To make this even more useful, we've given the Pope some new powers as well: he can give you money, plain and simple. He can also approve your candidate for a bishopric under Papal Investiture, or even declare a Crusade on the infidel of your choice. However, each time he does you a favor, he will like you less, so your influence will not last forever. Incidentally, having your antipope installed in Rome will have a similar effect. Oh, and if the Pope should happen to be of your very own dynasty, that will give you a lot of monthly Piety and Prestige.



There are some direct benefits to controlling cardinals as well. You cannot ask to have someone excommunicated or invaded if they control more cardinals than you do.

That's that about the College of Cardinals. Next week I'll talk about holy orders, heresies, and other things...

ps.

Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham (official product page)
http://www.paradoxplaza.com/games/crusader-kings-ii-sons-of-abraham

Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham announced (News article at PC gamer)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/10/22/crusader-kings-ii-the-something-something-announced/[URL="http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/10/22/crusader-kings-ii-the-something-something-announced/"][/URL]

 

[Mangowarrior]

Nice! Right before Black Friday too :happy:

 

[Tengri]

Every fiber of my being is telling me not to post this, but...

Why on earth would anyone want to play as a bishopric? It would be completely pointless and boring! This is a game about dynasties!

Can someone explain to me what you would hope to achieve playing as a theocracy after a few generations?

 

[$ilent_$trider]

What do you mean we would be playing a theocracy after a few generations?
We are just pushing our younger sons and brothers to be cardinals in hope they will one day have the big hat.
How is that playing a theocracy?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Every fiber of my being is telling me not to post this, but...

Why on earth would anyone want to play as a bishopric? It would be completely pointless and boring! This is a game about dynasties!

Can someone explain to me what you would hope to achieve playing as a theocracy after a few generations?

Moving your family into a position to control the church?
Or perhaps with a pseudo-dynasty mechanic expanding the control of a particular sect or order within the church (say Benedictine, Franciscan). Perhaps even a school of thought based on one of the early church fathers (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine).

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Will a 100% Cathar country die out because they viewed all reproductive sex to be evil? Will they at least get a reproductive penalty? Also they didn't believe in marriage, so it should refer to their partners as "lovers" or something and be temporary.

I'm hoping this is the case, I want to see how different a Cathar Europe will be!

Oh and the Jewish nobility of the Khazars is finally being added (although I hope the general population is a mixture of Tengism, Nestorian Christianity and Islam for accuracy)

Man there is so much to think about! Also isn't a favored Papal candidate called a "Papabilli"? or is that just a modern term?

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Will there be any update made to the EU4 converter in the next patch (besides compatibility)? For example there are some issues regarding hordes and their tech/government, the HRE, etc. Also I think the heresies should become their own religion in EU4 (instead of joining the mainstream branch) now that they are more fleshed out.

Plus Abyssinia doesn't convert to Ethiopia. I don't want my Christian mountain kingdom to survive multiple jihads only to convert and get generic ideas. In addition to the fact that Abyssinia and Ethiopia are two different names for the same thing.

 

[Titan79]

Man there is so much to think about! Also isn't a favored Papal candidate called a "Papabilli"? or is that just a modern term?

Well, I don't know how long ago this term dates but, for sure, the correct form is "papabile", which in Italian simply means "who can be made Pope". "Papabili" (one "l") would be the plural form.

 

[Thure]

Well, I don't know how long ago this term dates but, for sure, the correct form is "papabile", which in Italian simply means "who can be made Pope". "Papabili" (one "l") would be the plural form.

Seems to be modern.

"Papabile (Italian pronunciation: [paˈpaːbile], pl. papabili) is an unofficial Italian term first coined by Vaticanologists and now used internationally in many languages to describe a Roman Catholic man, in practice always a cardinal, who is thought a likely or possible candidate to be elected pope. A literal English translation would be "pop(e)able" or "able to be pope""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papabile

 

[Titan79]

Seems to be modern.

"Papabile (Italian pronunciation: [paˈpaːbile], pl. papabili) is an unofficial Italian term first coined by Vaticanologists and now used internationally in many languages to describe a Roman Catholic man, in practice always a cardinal, who is thought a likely or possible candidate to be elected pope. A literal English translation would be "pop(e)able" or "able to be pope""

Yeah, thanks Thure. In fact, the term seems to have been coined during the XIXth century, so no relation whatsoever with the CK2 timeframe.

 

[Labrynian Rebel]

Alright, I suspected as much.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Will a 100% Cathar country die out because they viewed all reproductive sex to be evil? Will they at least get a reproductive penalty? Also they didn't believe in marriage, so it should refer to their partners as "lovers" or something and be temporary.

I'm hoping this is the case, I want to see how different a Cathar Europe will be!.........

As far as i understand catharism , that is only a valid for the piously determined. It seems they had a system that makes fine differentiations between different classes inside the hierarchy of commoners, pious and nobles and different levels therein.
Think of how buddhism works. The commoners have to decide for themselves what they do, the pious class though needs to orientate itself rather strictly depending on the hierarchy level. The higher, the stricter.

 

[Byzan]

Question, if I buy a Pope/the Pope is on my side...

Will I be able to call a Crusade/get a prepared Invasion casus belli against the Byzantine Empire?

 

[Slavicist]

Does SoA introduce some changes in the Eastern Orthodox Christianity? Most notably, how does this reflect the Ecumenical Patriarch?

The way I see so far, some minor changes there would significantly improve the gaming experience.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Does SoA introduce some changes in the Eastern Orthodox Christianity?

There have been no announcements or suggestions of changes to either Eastern or Oriental Orthodoxy so far, no.

 

[Kljunas]

Plus Abyssinia doesn't convert to Ethiopia. I don't want my Christian mountain kingdom to survive multiple jihads only to convert and get generic ideas. In addition to the fact that Abyssinia and Ethiopia are two different names for the same thing.

Well if that's really problematic you can fix it by adding one line to nation_table.csv before converting.

 

[Slavicist]

There have been no announcements or suggestions of changes to either Eastern or Oriental Orthodoxy so far, no.

Except for the introduction of martial Holy Orders, I believe? And of the tons of announced events, I think at least some ought to be EOC-specific.

As for suggestions, I'm not quite sure if you're correct. I have been following in spare time this forum for the past few weeks quite a bit; here from this very thread:

It should work to make this for the appointed Patriarch of Constaninople, right? With the Emperor of Byzanz as only elector.

Wait a second - can't it be used by modders to model the Byzantium internal factions? With a special ByzantineOrthodox religion and emperor elected from the most powerful douxes and people with Born in Purple trait?

I'd love for some similar mechanic to be added for the Ecumenical Patriarch. But is it really as simple as just having the Emperor be the only elector?

And a very interesting proposal how to implement this in the game:

Well in the case of a Patriarchal election we could have a message pop up with the following options... All options are historically valid... Well maybe option C seems a little weird but in a few cases Emperor opted to do that but in almost all cases it ended with disastrous results.

A) Appoint the Patriarch directly (if some requirements are met and the Emperor is allowed to appoint only close family members or courtiers who have at least +80 relationship with him)
B) Let the Synod elect the new Patriarch (implement a special election mechanism)
C) Let "the Holy Spirit" elect the new Patriarch (AI picks a random courtier or generates a new character)

I am just throwing an idea here dont jump on me... Feel free to elaborate...

A strong ruler should appoint the EC; if he appoints a member of his family it should come at quite a significant piety loss. There could be a "favorable candidate" and it would in contrast yield a piety bonus, as well as in general if pious and/or theocratic characters are appointed. A weak Emperor (or during a regency) should not be able to appoint a patriarch, with just the AI handling it. I'm thinking of a model to better represent the symbiotic dualism that was the ERE double-headed eagle - one representing the monarch, and other the ecclesiastical leader. He should be a character of immense power or at least potential, holding quite an influence. He should be the one who crowns the next Emperor, so he should if not lead at least frequently (when the relations are abysmal, of course) join overthrowing plots to install another Emperor.

This as I said would be only a minor change, but there are of course a lot of other suggestions to reform the EOC. For starters, all members of the Pentarchy save for the EP are "empty" for some reason. In other faiths, they represent if the holy centers are "under occupation", and so should the Roman Pope be there as well. The other three patriarchs should not be non-existent, but also listed and very much present. They served as the heads of EOCs in those respective Muslim lands. That could open up for the introduction of Ecumenical Councils in the game, which would in a simplified form be composed out of the pentarchs. That could lead to the inclusion of the discussions of the Union (Lyon and Florentine) and of course the Schism would not be able to be mended with a simple decision, but through an Ecumenical Council. The ECs should have a number of decisions which could affect gameplay, etc...
The SoA seems to introduce most of the mechanics needed to realize this.

In short, the EP should be a more dynamic and involved character. The last of these I do not know how to implement (or whether at all, in a balanced manner), but the game should reflect a conservative position which mostly prevents the player from ending the schism (that's what came me to mind, diplomatically mending the schism, however this should be incredibly difficult both in the long and short run, mostly meaning that the player's head and butt are in danger) and reflect that Patriarch that threw an anathema on the Pope in 1054.

EDIT: P. S. Although I do not want to overcomplicate, another thing comes to mind with the ECs - though as I already wrote the "pentarchs" should be the ones that partake and decide, all EOC autocephalous heads should come to the councils (as observers?). The rulers that decide not to send 'em, could have dire consequences in very bad relations with those "in communion"; perhaps even granting the granting the EP to give a CB to 'punish' them (although that might be too much). On the otherhand if a mad Emperor tries to convene an EC and fails miserably, without succeeding anything and getting only at odds with most of the EOC, this should e.g. bring the independent Orthodox realms into a war to depose the "unfaithful" monarch (e.g. the EP can call Bulgaria as an ally in the war to overthrow the sacrilegious Emperor).

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I meant from the devs, not other users. Of course we'd love some more stuff for Orthodox and Miaphysite folk.

Were there any historical Orthodox holy orders? There may be, but I am skeptical. Nominally at least, they were against the combination of religion and warfare.

 

[Slavicist]

Well, any thoughts on my proposal? This game is all about religion in the Medieval Era, so I think a little expansion of the Christian Churches and the inclusion of the ECs (not limiting itself to the EOC; the last truly Ecumenical Council may have been in 787, but within the game timeline a total of twelfe ROC-acknowledged Councils were held) is a nice touch.

Were there any historical Orthodox holy orders? There may be, but I am skeptical. Nominally at least, they were against the combination of religion and warfare.

There were, but none of them were martial. However, the inclusion of the of the Holy Sepulchre as the order for the EOC is a clever 'manipulation' on Paradox' part. Although not historical, if there ever was going to be an EOC order, this is definitely the case (they were in charge of protecting the EOC in the Holy Land and did have men at arms as guards, though definitely not constituting an army).

 

[Don_giorgio]

At least Paradox should give some power to the Emperor over the Church (as its quite historical) like calling Ecumenical Councils (if some requirements are met like rampant herecy in the Empire or a heretical Emperor trying to legitimise his herecy... Both of them historically happened) or appoint the Ecumenical Patriarch again if some requirements are met (several Emperors directly appointed Patriarchs when the previous one died or was removed because he was a pain in the ass... Remember how Leo VI deposed Patriarch Nicholas I when the latter refused to sanction his fourth marriage and replaced him by directly appointing the Palace Protopriest Euthymius as Patriarch who accepted the Emperor's fourth marriage)

Also i hope that the "Nominate Bishop" button will be included for Orthodoxs too as it is really annoying when i want to make my brother a Bishop and i have to either erect a new Bishopric for him (and pay huge sum of money) or revoke an existing Bishop title (and suffer the tyranny penalty) while playing as an orthodox ruler.

 

[Slavicist]

At least Paradox should give some power to the Emperor over the Church (as its quite historical) like calling Ecumenical Councils (if some requirements are met like rampant herecy in the Empire or a heretical Emperor trying to legitimise his herecy... Both of them historically happened) or appoint the Ecumenical Patriarch again if some requirements are met (several Emperors directly appointed Patriarchs when the previous one died or was removed because he was a pain in the ass... Remember how Leo VI deposed Patriarch Nicholas I when the latter refused to sanction his fourth marriage and replaced him by directly appointing the Palace Protopriest Euthymius as Patriarch who accepted the Emperor's fourth marriage)

Also i hope that the "Nominate Bishop" button will be included for Orthodoxs too as it is really annoying when i want to make my brother a Bishop and i have to either erect a new Bishopric for him (and pay huge sum of money) or revoke an existing Bishop title (and suffer the tyranny penalty) while playing as an orthodox ruler.

However, by the looks of it, it seems SoA will omit such fixes/improvements of the EOC and OOC.